Transition to barefoot - is this right?

J

Jericho

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 February 2008
Messages
2,568
Visit site
Hi there, would appreciate some advice on whether any barefoot experts think this sounds about right for my l15.2hh connemara x tB mare. She has had her hind shoes off for about 5 months and we never really noticed the difference and decided that because she has such a low workload (hacked out max 1 1/2hr once a week and maybe 1/2 hr schooling) and she had such good feet that she really didnt need shoes on her front feet.

She has had her front shoes off for about 10 weeks now and been hacked out about 10 times during that time. Most of our hacks incorporate about 1 or 2 miles on roads plus grassy and stony tracks. I dont trot on the roads. Her feet havent chipped at all. She is footy on stony ground which I expected and she chooses to walk on grass wherever possible and occassionally she will lurch when she stands on a big stone as though to say ouch ouch ouch! I have added Farriers formula to her feed and 2 weeks ago started putting Keratex on and now am alternating this with Kevin bacon dressing as I wanted to try and help her harden her feet up. Will she always be a bit footy on stony ground? How long realistically do you think the transition period will last and am I doing everything I can to help her? I really want to persist the barefoot route but not at the expense of her comfort.

I have tried to find some boots to fit her but after 3 returns of different sizes on Old Macs I am really sceptical about how good boots are going to be etc so dont want to rely on this.
 
I was told by my EP when I used one that it can take a year or more for a horse whose usually shod to get used to being barefoot.

My horse didnt take to it and after 6 months off we got him shod again, If you dont get on with boots keep doing what your doing maybe and see how she goes?
 
My first question would be what is her diet and what's her grazing like?

I would also agree that 10 weeks is still early days for many horses, plus she isn't working very hard. The more work a horse does the stronger it's feet get and faster too. Because she's only working once or twice a week it will take her longer to transition than a horse being worked every day. If you could up her workload it would speed the process up no end.

Boots would be helpful in the interim - is there any reason you went for Old Macs? Have you thought of trying the Easyboot Gloves? They're much easier to use and fit.
 
What are you feeding GreyBay? An dhow much grass?

10 Weeks is early days - my horse had to regrow the whole capsule before he was really sound, and even now he will choose the grass rather than the stones - wouldn't you?

Agree with Mr Darcy - the Easy boots are better to get on and off and stay on more reliably.
 
my mare has never been shod, but she still prefers grass to stones. I think thats not necessarily a problem unless peeps have unfenced lawns and your horse is sidling towards their lovely green sward....:-))
 
GreyBay said:
occassionally she will lurch when she stands on a big stone as though to say ouch ouch ouch!
Click to expand...

This actually made my gut clench :( please get her boots. Most horse's will hack fine without hind shoes but horse's carry 60 - 70% of their weigh on there front feet. Many, many horses will just never have the right shape feet to go on stoney roads so, unless you can avoid them completely, boots are needed. Horse's are savanah animals, stones aren't somethign they evolved to deal with.

Your horse should never been in pain or doscomfort from lack of shoes :( I keep mine barefoot and I'm a big fan but she does wear hoof boots when being ridden, always, no exceptions as I would feel awful if she pitched on a stone as if saying ouch, ouch, ouch!
 
blimey, dont over react (this is in relation to the above post)

even shod horses lurch if they stand on a big stone.occasionally could mean once a week (fine) or every 5 mins(not fine).

i would give her a bit more time TBH.

i think i built mine up from 5mins road work to 3 hour hacks on road/grass/grit/stoney tracks over 6 months, without boots.

they are not fine on all surfaces but yes if they stand on a big stone they do lurch, but like i said, even shod horses do that and its probably once every 4/5 hacks this happens,which IMHo isnt an issue.
 
well, Im trying to get my mare fully able to be barefoot..shes been unshod for a year now,, and shes still not able to hack out comfortably..I have used keretex as well, and she has a good diet. When the ground is dry, I find her feet crack and shoeing them makes them worse.Im hoping that now in spring with her work increased, her feet will get strong enough to hack her out!!
 
I was told to lead my horse in hand for 20 minutes every day on smooth concrete to condition his feet as quickly as possible. Also if you have a sand arena that is supposed to be very good too and the sand is a bit abrasive. You want avoid rough, stoney areas until the foot becomes more concave or you will end up with bruises. If you are only riding once or twice a week that isn't very much and I would recommend hoof boots with pads inside so the horse is using its foot correctly and it is completey comfortable so it can stride out. (Like any new tack boots have to be introduced gradually as you don't want rubs).

Could you arrange a "paddock paradise" - make a track round the outside of the field, to keep the horses on the move more?
 
Orangehorse - I found pea gravel - the 5mm stuff - really great for conditioning. It makes a fantastic supportive suface for laminitics as well. Great stuff - costs about £12 a ton though.

Horse's are savanah animals, stones aren't somethign they evolved to deal with.
Click to expand...

What? There are no stones in the deserts, or Mongolia where the Ala Teke live?

C'mon - that's silly.
 
If you were putting down pea gravel, round a water trough in the field for instance, presumably it would be necessary to put down a membrane so that it wouldn't sink into the ground in the winter. Or would hardcore be better. And what sort of depth is necessary?
 
"Horse's are savanah animals, stones aren't somethign they evolved to deal with."

I agree, completely daft, have you never watched a western movie and seen the mountains those brumbies run through? In spite of being sports bred, not natives, my horses don't notice stones, rocks, hardcore, road dressings or anything else, and don't even think of trying to get onto the verge. It takes work and a very particular attention to diet, especially in summer.


"yes if they stand on a big stone they do lurch, but like i said, even shod horses do that and its probably once every 4/5 hacks this happens,which IMHo isnt an issue. "

I agree. When a barefoot horse feels a stone, it will remove its foot from it quickly before it causes damage. That's just a sensible horse. If a shod horse with 1/3 inch shoes treads its sole onto a 1/2 inch stone and doesn't notice it then that's because its foot is numb, not because the shoe is protecting it. It is possible to make too much of an occasional hasty avoidance of a stone by a barefoot horse.
 
You really need about 4 - 6 inches, and yes - either scrape the ground or put a membrane down if it is muddy.

I was lucky - I was straight onto hard pack. If there is sand underneath it gets messy.
 
My younger horse has always been barefoot. He has done many miles over different terrains and has always been rock crunching.

Left to his own devices, he will naturally pick the ground he is happiest with and will also adjust his own speed accordingly. I just need to sit there and look pretty.

If he stands on a big stone, he will get off it quick to prevent damage occuring. He is never sore afterwards due to that. He has clever feet!
 
depends what the foot was like shod though? sometime short term discomfort is necessary to avoid long term damage, in feet that do not grow in an ideal way.its rare and should be the exception not the rule, but it is a possible.

would also ditto oberon that when mine jump off a stone, they dont suffer damage, iv had one stone bruise in 5 years of barefoot horses, not a bad record!

i know some horses whose feet scare the living daylights out of me, in shoes, and undoubtedly they would be sore initially barefoot, but would be hugely improved in the medium to long term by ditching the shoes. the feet are so distorted by the crazy and shocking farriery that the limbs have twisted to adjust, if the shoes were removed they would be sore whilst the rest of the body adjusts, dont forget that removing the shoes affects the bones, joints and muscles, and the back and pelvis, neck and poll too!
 
Great post above...

I've ridden alongside plenty of shod horses who step on a big stone and go ouch. In fact in the sport I do most shod horses are padded up (producing a whole other host of foot issues).

Didn't understand the post about horses not having evolved to deal with stones. Quite the opposite is true - they evolved in what is now North America, praire land with rocks and stones a plenty. I've watched videos of them galloping over boulder fields and stoney scrub land. Tough, rocky, hard terrain is exactly what their feet have evolved to deal with. Soft, level pasture is the alien environment.

If the horse is footy and transitioning use hoof boots. If the previously sound barefoot horse becomes footy or the transitioning period shows no improvement in hoof quality then relook at diet. Diet is the key.
 
thanks for all the constructive replies. She has a minimal amount of grass, some hay and handfull of happy hoof with runny speedibeet and farriers formula. Her footiness is really very minimal but I wanted to make sure that I was doing the right thing. The lurching is only very occassionally - she did it once yesterday on 90min hack - and she never has been sore or lame following a 'lurch'. Believe me, its not a question of the penny dropping - I have been monitoring it very carefully and if I thought it was hurting her more than the odd lurch I would stop and I cringe everytime she does hence my post. As I said in my original post it wouldnt be at the expense of her comfort. I think even us humans in our big clumpy shoes lurch a step if we stand on a stone!

After our hack yesterday I definitely have seen an improvement and she was really moving well and striding out and choosing the surfaces that work for her. I feel pleased that she is learning about surfaces and what works for her. She was absolutely fine on the roads, the only terrain she picked her way through was a very poorly maintained bridleway across a farmers field that has big stones in it (which all my horses have struggled with even in shoes!)

We do have a good variety of surfaces from concrete and road planing areas where the water is so she is crossing this regularly and without problem at all. Our fields are already absolutely hard and again no problems.

so my plan is to watch the grass and restrict more as necessary and also try and get her out more even if just in hand along the road for 10 mins. I will also perservere with other type of hoof boots for her to wear on hacks where there will be more road work or stony ground.
 
I did a similar thing to you with my Andalusian although I've never given him Farriers Formula or put Keratex on. He still occasionally stands on an ouchy stone but his feet are awsome. I would say his feet got better as time went on but when I look back I would say it took a good 12 months for me to be able to bimble along willy nilly without having to care what the ground in front of us was like. I'm not a barefoot guru or anything and if in the future I bought another horse then more than likely it would get shod! May I just add that my boys movement got much better when the shoes came off.
 
My horses are unshod and farrier trimmed every six weeks.

I am not surprised that your mare is footy, 10 weeks is no time at all for a horse that has never been unshod in front. Of course it is different behind, as someone has already said, 70% of the horses weight is carried on the forehand!

My current mares have never worn shoes but I had one that I wanted to ride unshod and I gave her six months ridden on only grass or a surface until her feet acclimatised. I do not like the idea of putting a horse through so much pain that it 'lurches' no matter how few and far between those 'lurches' are - as for going on a 90min hack - far far too long imho.

I sincerely believe that some horses just cannot go unshod and no amount of fiddling with a diet can change that, I am not implying that yours is one of these horses, but I do think that there are owners who blindly follow the latest 'natural' trend often to the detriment and welfare of their horse.
 
I just thought I might add that my farrier came to do all my horses every 6 weeks but has only had to "slightly" shape his 2 front feet once in 18 months, otherwise he hasnt touched him. He was at our yard the other day and I dragged him over for a check and he said his feet were fine and that I was likely to put him out of business. Horse has saved me a fortune.
 
mrdarcy said:
Just out of interest - what would be your approach with a shod horse who lurched when standing on a stone?
Click to expand...

The same, BUT and it is a big but, it would be a much rougher surface or a much bigger stone that would make a shod horse lurch. When my horses were shod I do not remember any of them ever 'lurching' over ground.

I have no problem at all with unshod horses, hell all of mine are unshod, this is purely because they have very strong feet, there is no mystical trimming here. I do have a problem with the industry that is growing up around 'barefoot' and am firmly of the opinion that some horses need shoes - simple as. As for a movement that encourages people to trim their own horses feet I have only one word - Strasser! In this post
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=362435&page=13 someone actually states that they trim their own arthritic veterans feet and balance is not so important at that age!
 
i think its natural and a good safety measure for the horse to yank its foot up if its standing on a big pointy stone!!!
as long as they dont limp afterwards or act footy on normal surfaces, i wouldnt be unhappy with it.
some horses can take a long time to adjust. and dont forget they need regular trimming the same as a shod horse.
if they are footy on normal tracks or yanking their feet up all the time because you have very stoney tracks, then shoes back on the fronts will make life more comfortable for you both.
horses can transition but some horses cant cope with loads of stones even after a long time barefoot...
and as an owner if you want to ride on the bridleways, you dont want to be worrying about bruising your horses feet!
 
SirenaXVI said:
The same, BUT and it is a big but, it would be a much rougher surface or a much bigger stone that would make a shod horse lurch. When my horses were shod I do not remember any of them ever 'lurching' over ground.

I have no problem at all with unshod horses, hell all of mine are unshod, this is purely because they have very strong feet, there is no mystical trimming here. I do have a problem with the industry that is growing up around 'barefoot' and am firmly of the opinion that some horses need shoes - simple as. As for a movement that encourages people to trim their own horses feet I have only one word - Strasser! In this post
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=362435&page=13 someone actually states that they trim their own arthritic veterans feet and balance is not so important at that age!
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean about mystical trimming - LOL. We balance the foot, leave the sole and frog and put on a mustang roll. Nothing mystical about it. I explain fully what I'm doing and why to all my clients. Again not sure what you mean about an industry - trimmers are just offering a service, like farriers do - there's no conspiracy or ulterior motive to take over the world... we offer a service to people who want it. And I've got to do a roll eyes everytime someone brings up Strasser... it's a bit of a tired old stick to beat barefoot trimmers with. The Strasser clinical trim bares no resemblance to what we do in any way shape or form.
 
My mare sounds just like yours! Same breed and size etc very pretty girl :-)

We never had back Shoes on and we took the front ones off over 3 years ago, she can be careful over stony patches and does quite a dramitic ouch on the way out yet storms back over same patch on the way back !! Her stride has legthened dramaticly over the past few years on the roads she used to be really tottery but just stomps out and now she jumps again (I say does but I mean did as she's been in the field making babies for a year now lol)

I used Eaisboot with the strap for a while but they were a faff to put on . When we first transitioned we were advised to use a wire brush on the soles of her feet when picking them out, you know the hardware shop kind.

Stick with it - i'd much rather have a horse that feels a stone than one that you can't trot on the road or jump!

Good Luck
 
As for a movement that encourages people to trim their own horses feet I have only one word - Strasser!
Click to expand...

The UKNHCP does not recgnise any short format "Learn to trim your horse" courses.

However I do think that your comment is not really on the mark. Strasser was one school of trimming, and the problems were caused in 2004 by a student of H Strasser. Now, no one with any sense, is going to dispute the court's findings that the trimming was excessive, and amounted to mutilation, or that it was bizarre that HS sought to defend her student for such a radical trim.

However what happened after that was a number of farriers used that to bay for the blood of any barefoot trimmers, and that this one case demonstrated that no barefoot trimmer could be trusted and that they were all going to rampage around the countryside mutilating ponies, and that they probably also kept dead puppies in their toolboxes ;)

At the time this was reported in Hoofcare and Lameness: Donald Nicol, AWCF, a UK farrier who also teaches in developing countries on care of the unshod foot, attended one of Dr. Strasser's courses at the ILPH's behest. Donald says, "Dr. Strasser is, at first, a very plausible lecturer and is obviously convincing non-professionals who have no training or insufficient knowledge to question the methods put to them. Action is required immediately to stop these courses and I would recommend that a full investigation is undertaken before any horses are seriously injured."

I know Donald well, at one point he shod my horses, and we have spoken about this.

Donald's major problem was about people receiving inadequate training, against a background where the more radical approaches proposed by HS were applied to horses whose feet were already seriously compromised by problems like laminitis.


So - sorry for the longer post but....

I think for you to make a statement like this is sensationalist and ill-informed, and shows little understanding of the current culture and organisations working in the barefoot movement.

In this post
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forum...362435&page=13 someone actually states that they trim their own arthritic veterans feet and balance is not so important at that age!
Click to expand...

Yes - I agree, this is a problem of perception, and why the barefoot organisations work so hard to educate all horse owners they come in contact with.
 
mrdarcy said:
Not sure what you mean about mystical trimming - LOL. We balance the foot, leave the sole and frog and put on a mustang roll. Nothing mystical about it. I explain fully what I'm doing and why to all my clients. Again not sure what you mean about an industry - trimmers are just offering a service, like farriers do - there's no conspiracy or ulterior motive to take over the world... we offer a service to people who want it. And I've got to do a roll eyes everytime someone brings up Strasser... it's a bit of a tired old stick to beat barefoot trimmers with. The Strasser clinical trim bares no resemblance to what we do in any way shape or form.
Click to expand...

I use the word mystical because a barefoot trimmer once advised me that the barefoot trim was very different to a normal trim but would/could not tell me why.

You may want to roll eyes at the word Strasser but like it or not, it is what a lot of people think of when they hear the word barefoot, although I am very glad to hear that there is no resemblance.

How much is a barefoot trim and in what way would it differ from a normal trim?
 
SirenaXVI said:
I use the word mystical because a barefoot trimmer once advised me that the barefoot trim was very different to a normal trim but would/could not tell me why.
Click to expand...

No idea why they didn't explain to you how and why they trim a certain way. Don't hold one person against the rest of us.

You may want to roll eyes at the word Strasser but like it or not, it is what a lot of people think of when they hear the word barefoot, although I am very glad to hear that there is no resemblance.
Click to expand...

Which is why we're quite vocal on here trying to set the record straight. But the Strasser case was again one person - there are examples of farriers and vets acting negligently but you don't write off every single other vet or farrier because of a few individuals.

How much is a barefoot trim and in what way would it differ from a normal trim?
Click to expand...

Depends what you mean by a normal trim... what is a normal trim? Balancing the foot, obviously, but does a normal trim involve trimming the sole and/or frog?
 
SirenaXVI said:
by normal trim I mean balancing the foot and trimming any excess/loose frog and flaking sole
Click to expand...

Hmm is it normal to trim the frog for just a grass trim? my Barefoot trimmer never did and the farrier who now trims her feet doesn't either.

Just as a point from your earlier post a trim from a trimmer depends just as a trim from a farrier does (However you do get some people who are both of these things!) I have paid various amounts for trimmers but about £35 which is less than it was costing for her 2 front shoes - now though I have a farrier who is top :-) He does them for 15 quid leaves the sole and frog alone, just trims her bars back if they need doing, balances the foot, takes the flare off and rolls her toes - says she's got great feet and only does them every 3 months perhaps more over the summer.

http://www.easycareinc.com/Education/articles/mustang_roll.aspx

This is quite an informative link - brief snapshot of information :-)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top