Transition to barefoot??

little_critter

little_critter

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My mare is off work at the moment as she's just been diagnosed with a hock spavin and needs further investigation for something going on with her front pedal bones.
She has a routine farrier appointment on friday and I'm wondering if I should remove her shoes and allow her feet to go 'au natural' for a while.
Of course I'm consulting the vet before I do anything.....
But if they think its a good idea, is there anything I need to know / need to do while transitioning to barefoot.
She has very good strong feet that I think must grow slowly as she never 'looks' like she needs shoeing (no splits / cracks / overgrown bits / risen clenches)
 
Not neccessary long term, I always had our ponies shoes off in the winter while the ground was softer.

Diet wise, would be good for her to be on a high fibre/low sugar, starch diet with added magnesium
 
Thanks Oberon for your barefoot 101 - very useful. She has a fairly basic diet anyway: Spillers lite balancer, hi-fi lite (just a handfull in the evening) and hay (and grass of course)
I tried her in Equimins meta balance before (for a previous liver problem-wanted Vits &mins but had to avoid iron). She totally refused to eat it and I ended up giving it away (fussy bugger!). I'll have a look at the other options.

I'll wait to hear what the vet says, from what I'm reading on pedal bone issues you sometimes want MORE support from shoes, not less.
 
little_critter said:
Thanks Oberon for your barefoot 101 - very useful. She has a fairly basic diet anyway: Spillers lite balancer, hi-fi lite (just a handfull in the evening) and hay (and grass of course)
I tried her in Equimins meta balance before (for a previous liver problem-wanted Vits &mins but had to avoid iron). She totally refused to eat it and I ended up giving it away (fussy bugger!). I'll have a look at the other options.

I'll wait to hear what the vet says, from what I'm reading on pedal bone issues you sometimes want MORE support from shoes, not less.
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Ifed Equimins Laminator over sumer, it stimulates blood circulation in foot, maybe, it is palatable in half doseage.
 
You definatly need to consult the vet.
My gelding was 1/10th lame last year the vet did not allow us to remove the shoes as she needed everything keeping the same so she could assess want was going on.
 
little_critter said:
I'll wait to hear what the vet says, from what I'm reading on pedal bone issues you sometimes want MORE support from shoes, not less.
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I wonder at how suspending the weight on the horse from the walls and laminae in shoes can be considered 'support'. If you need support for the foot - what's wrong with the ground?

But as you say, you need to be guided by your vet :p.

caudalfrog.jpg


caudalshotground.jpg
 
Well shoes are off for the moment. Her feet were x-rayed on Friday so shoes needed removing for that. X rays showed pedal bones were fine and that she has a good sole.
Her hocks were also injected with steroids so she's having to stay in over the weekend to reduce infection risk. I took her for a short (200m) walk to check she's sound and stretch her legs. She started off fine (we did a couple of laps of YO's pea gravel drive) but on the way back she trod on a stone and hobbled for a few strides. I felt like such a cruel mummy.
I'll speak to the vet on mon/tues and decide whether the shoes stay off or go back on.
 
I have never known a horse not to have problems in hooves post steroid injection despite many assurances about low dose etc. Many get blood in white line and some sink (as shown on x-ray) I don't know why these problems are not more widely acknowledged. I find very useful temp symptom management involves use of boots and pads. Peripheral loading will of course increase the risk of sinking. Sinking can be reversed, but prob not thru conbventional means.
 
LucyPriory said:
I have never known a horse not to have problems in hooves post steroid injection despite many assurances about low dose etc. Many get blood in white line and some sink (as shown on x-ray) I don't know why these problems are not more widely acknowledged. I find very useful temp symptom management involves use of boots and pads. Peripheral loading will of course increase the risk of sinking. Sinking can be reversed, but prob not thru conbventional means.
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So if a BF horse had to have a course of steriods would you boot and pad them and if so all the time or just when out the stable.?
 
LucyP is this still the case if the steroid injections were into the joint rather than into the bloodstream?
Will take her for another short pootle today.
Farrier who took her back shoes off yesterday (vet only removed fronts for x rays) said she should have no problem going barefoot.
 
LucyPriory said:
I have never known a horse not to have problems in hooves post steroid injection despite many assurances about low dose etc. Many get blood in white line and some sink (as shown on x-ray) I don't know why these problems are not more widely acknowledged. I find very useful temp symptom management involves use of boots and pads. Peripheral loading will of course increase the risk of sinking. Sinking can be reversed, but prob not thru conbventional means.
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I had no problems at all with the steroid injections into the hocks that the OP has had done with a horse of mine. He was, and remained, rock crunching and showed no sign of it being done whatsoever.

I would not use oral or intravenous steroids except in an emergency. They are known to cause lamintis.
 
little_critter said:
I'll wait to hear what the vet says, from what I'm reading on pedal bone issues you sometimes want MORE support from shoes, not less.
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I'd be interested to hear how a shoe supports the pedal bone. It sits in the hole in the middle :D

A bar shoe might just about support the very back of it, but as Oberon says, what's wrong with the floor? Which will also support most of the frog and that WILL support the pedal bone. Only heart bars with a full frog support will support the pedal bone, but then almost completely clamps down the natural flexion of the foot.
 
cptrayes said:
I had no problems at all with the steroid injections into the hocks that the OP has had done with a horse of mine. He was, and remained, rock crunching and showed no sign of it being done whatsoever.

I would not use oral or intravenous steroids except in an emergency. They are known to cause lamintis.
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Lucy when Marni had the intraarticular steroids for her arthritis (she had them twice) the vet warned me there was a risk of laminitis and to keep her in for 48 hours and soak hay and so on. Obviously she was shod back then but she didn't show any signs of lameness even on turning which would usually be her first sign. Do you think if she had been BF we would have noticed something else or do you mean like CPT says about IV or oral steroids?
 
The line about shoes being necessary to provide support to hooves makes me cringe now that I understand how the hoof works. Nic Barker regularly says 'How can you get better support for a hoof than the ground?' A novel idea maybe but it's true.

Those pictures you've put up Oberon are a really good illustration of the point! :)
 
bikerchickone said:
The line about shoes being necessary to provide support to hooves makes me cringe now that I understand how the hoof works. Nic Barker regularly says 'How can you get better support for a hoof than the ground?' A novel idea maybe but it's true.

Those pictures you've put up Oberon are a really good illustration of the point! :)
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Vet once said to be my horses flares would squash the structures inside his foot I still have not worked out how..
 
If, as I suspect, horses respond to steroids as humans do, then it doesn't matter by what route they are given - oral, injection, transdermal - they will provoke a systemic response with all horrible associated side effects.
 
DragonSlayer said:
Would Spillers Happy Hoof be considered suitable for barefooters? I don't know...so curious...

Thanks in advance!

:D
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On paper it isn't bad.

Its a mixture of alfalfa, straw, molasses and soya oil.

But many horses just don't seem to do too well on it.

It's strange because Spiller's High Fibre Cubes cross many more boxes than the Happy Hoof but even sensitive barefooters seem to do OK on the cubes :confused:

I'm sure some horses are fine on Happy Hoof (I fed it for years) but on the basis that more don't - we don't tend to recommend it.

Clear and mud? :D
 
I am transitioning my horse at the minute and he is doing well :)

Feet dont look all that great (superficial chips) but hes getting more and more tolerant of harder ground weekly and our tarmac hacks now incude some long trots that he is happy doing :) Before we were just walking and trotting at ceratin places but hes happier now to put himself into trot and he has been shoeless now for nearly 3 months :)

It is pretty wet here though which im sure hasnt helped with his feet. I was advised to bring him in for a few hours to let the feet dry out but it was pointed out to me that all im doind is causing drastic changes in enviroment to the hoof and allowing it to expand and contract which will cause weakeness so now he just stays out.
 
Regandal said:
If, as I suspect, horses respond to steroids as humans do, then it doesn't matter by what route they are given - oral, injection, transdermal - they will provoke a systemic response with all horrible associated side effects.
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But surely steroids injected once into a joint capsule will have a far smaller systemic effect than steroid pills taken over a period of time or a steroid jab into the blood supply?

Thousands of horses have steroid injections into a joint capsule or tendon sheath. I know of three closely and dozens of others at arms length, and not one has ever had a laminitic response of any kind, never mind blood in the white line as Lucy is warning of.

If foot problems were that likely to be a result of interarticular hock injections then there would simply be no point in medicating the hocks of a spavined horse. And yet it is done routinely, and routinely results in greater soundness in spavined horses, as it did mine.
 
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My pony has had oral steroids for a different condition previously and it fortunately didn't cause lami (although there is a ridge in her hoof wall which I believe coincides with the steroids). I will of course be careful, fortunately her field was a hay field up until a month or 2 ago and the grass is pretty coarse and sparse,I have also reduced the size of her paddock.
Blackhorse; thanks for the details on how your transition is going. I'm only on day 1 and already questioning my decision because I hate to see her tread on a stone or walk gingerly. Of course I understand it will take time.
 
I'm sure Lucy probably sees more horses That react than Normal horse owners as she will c horses daily and in different conditions given her line of work. I think that this would give a more accurate result perhaps. Vets probably don't see such strong symptoms of lami as a majority of the horses they deal with are shod and therefore early symptoms are less obvious!
 
I'm sure she does, but she wrote as if a laminitic reaction was inevitable to joint injections and I think that is unnecessarily worrying to horse owners whose horses need them. The three I know close hand are all barefooters and it produced no result in them at all. So my own experience is 100% no problems, which even with tiny numbers, 3, suggests that although Lucy has said that she has never seen one not affected, there are plenty out there.

For me, if it was a choice between a horse with lameness in the hocks and a horse comfortable in the hocks, I would go for it every time.
 
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