Transition to living horse-drawn

Just one other thought. Many years ago I worked with driving horses in the tourist industry. Often people my age (always female) would express envy of my job and asked all about it, what experience you needed etc. The majority of them, who were non horsy, were aghast when they realised it meant caring for the animal all the time. A great many were under the impression that the horse was just harnessed up for you and was ready for the day in minutes, likewise at the end of the day. There was no thought for daily maintenance of the animal, or the vehicle come to that. Some even thought that the horse was just tied up for the night while still in the shafts while not actually working! This person is wearing rose coloured specs. I would think this dream would fairly quickly be shattered by the realities of horsekeeping rather than the fantasy.
 
Orangehorse said:
There are travellers around here that do a circuit and let their horses graze on the verge. They come round every so often and I see them in different parts of the county on my travels. I think that they might keep going all year round because some people were writing to the newspaper about the horses not having rugs in the wet weather. Bit of a moot point, I couldn't decide whether it was a good idea for them to have a rug or not, as they are tethered and couldn't get out of the rain.

However, they always travel in a group, there are 3 or 4 caravans/carts together. They may not all travel in a line, maybe two then a little further back another two. They are not alone to deal with the horse care and self care as your friend is thinking.

As others, suggest two weeks to a month in the summer and find out about all the practical difficulties. Farrier, sufficient grazing for the horse, hazards of travelling the roads, how to leave the caravan and buy supplies, get water for self and horse.

I suppose someone very determined might have a go, but it doesn't sound a great plan.
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Yes I was going to mention the lot around here. I do think they have a winter bolt hole though. And although the horses always seem happy and well cared for they do seem to change fairly regularly so either there is some buying and selling going on or they have somewhere else they are keeping horses and the ones on the road are getting changed in and out. They also seem to travel with a fair amount of chickens that they have in an enclosure on the verge when camping. And you certainly never see a lone person by the side of the road.
 
This reminds me a little bit of a radio 4 programme I heard with Clare Balding a while back: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001xddj

It was supposedly a heartwarming story about a woman who had bought a donkey, and travelled the whole perimeter of Wales (I think?) and all the adversity she'd had to conquer having never owned a donkey before etc etc.

All I could think was that the poor young (5yo) donkey was on the road for over a year, without any other donkey company, and a seemingly inept handler.
 
Wow, I am surprised that the response is so negative, I would love the lifestyle, have no issue with attending a horses needs and dealing with the weather-no different to any horse living out without the luxury of stables.
Normally you would have regular stop points/routes you need plenty of forward planning, spare cash in cash things go wrong, many people would have a 2nd horse learning the ropes so company is there, in many ways it could be a better life than the lack of exercise/stimulation and stress that many horses deal with on a daily basis. Horses like all grazing animals are meant to travel and cover fair dista cos everyday and in the modern world many lack that.The horse would also have the humans company for so much of every day, its a slower pace of life.
She will have a lot of learning to do and I do agree with others that she needs to speak to others who live the life already as there would be so much more forward planning needed than just parking a van and as this thread shows responses can be very negative to this way of living.
 
Tarateeno the marvellous and humans did this though I believe they are settled now. Maybe able to advise, or dissuade, as appropriate.

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twiggy2 said:
Wow, I am surprised that the response is so negative, I would love the lifestyle, have no issue with attending a horses needs and dealing with the weather-no different to any horse living out without the luxury of stables.
Normally you would have regular stop points/routes you need plenty of forward planning, spare cash in cash things go wrong, many people would have a 2nd horse learning the ropes so company is there, in many ways it could be a better life than the lack of exercise/stimulation and stress that many horses deal with on a daily basis. Horses like all grazing animals are meant to travel and cover fair dista cos everyday and in the modern world many lack that.The horse would also have the humans company for so much of every day, its a slower pace of life.
She will have a lot of learning to do and I do agree with others that she needs to speak to others who live the life already as there would be so much more forward planning needed than just parking a van and as this thread shows responses can be very negative to this way of living.
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I don’t think people are being negative - they are being realistic about the challenges involved and being fully prepared for what it entails before embarking on this route. It’s not really something to do on a whim when an animals welfare is at stake.
 
Not_so_brave_anymore said:
This reminds me a little bit of a radio 4 programme I heard with Clare Balding a while back: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001xddj

It was supposedly a heartwarming story about a woman who had bought a donkey, and travelled the whole perimeter of Wales (I think?) and all the adversity she'd had to conquer having never owned a donkey before etc etc.

All I could think was that the poor young (5yo) donkey was on the road for over a year, without any other donkey company, and a seemingly inept handler.
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The lady with the donkey had a great deal of support from other donkey owners, who found her places to stay and helped with vets and farriers along the way.
 
DabDab said:
And you certainly never see a lone person by the side of the road. [Round here, my edit]
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There was one alone at the country fair on the A34 between Holmes Chapel and Knutsford last week. Tethered alone on a grass verge 10 feet from a 50mph main road. Pretty bow top, one pony, grass was lush, heaven knows what rubbish was in it.
.
 
A lot of people who do long rides in the UK really struggle with the roads these days and with a rider and pack horse you can use bridleways, stop and graze more often and find more out of the way places to camp. A single planned long ride is quite different to living that way, if thought of the logistics quite a bit myself and I think anxiety is my main limiting factor. Also horses with the best will in the world can run through a tether if they want. I would worry about the horses guts as well you'd have to stop pretty regular for a snack break to keep the bowels moving surely and you'd have a choice of lush but polluted and rubbish filled verges or...?
 
twiggy2 said:
Wow, I am surprised that the response is so negative, I would love the lifestyle, have no issue with attending a horses needs and dealing with the weather-no different to any horse living out without the luxury of stables.
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My horses live out without the luxury of stables but I know exactly where they will be living out tomorrow. I know the fences will be secure, I know how much & what quality the grass will be, I will have walked around in daylight so I know there wont be any litter amongst tomorrow's grass. I know where the nearest vet is & that I have phone reception. I have access to radiators to dry rugs. I have a feed store. I have good neighbours who know me well and I know how to contact them in an emergency.
I have another person to carry one end of a heavy thing, pass me the poultice while I hold the foot etc.

If this person goes for driving lessons, the first thing she will be taught at the beginning of lesson 1 is you never, ever go in a horse carriage alone because you need 2 people to put-to safely and you need someone to stand at the horse's head when you stop. You see it done with one person but it's dangerous, especially for a beginner.

twiggy2 said:
Normally you would have regular stop points/routes you need plenty of forward planning, spare cash in cash things go wrong, many people would have a 2nd horse learning the ropes so company is there,
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If both horses are tethered they can't interact normally & where is the company for the human? She can't even pop into a cafe or shop unless it happens to have a very quiet road outside and a big window overlooking it. Where will she keep this spare cash? Not in the wagon - they're very hard to secure & not in the bank because you can't just rock up to a cash machine in a wagon.
twiggy2 said:
She will have a lot of learning to do and I do agree with others that she needs to speak to others who live the life already as there would be so much more forward planning needed than just parking a van and as this thread shows responses can be very negative to this way of living.
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I am in no way being negative about this way of living. I have immense admiration for the genuine old fashioned Gypsies who have inherited that culture but it is that- a whole culture. You might not see them in big groups often but they are effectively living in a big mobile village. You can't just step into it after a few horse driving lessons any more than you could spend some time with a friend's huskies & then pop off on your own to become an Inuit.

I am not being negative about this person & her ideas. An escape fantasy is a lovely way to transform a blue or boring day. Mistaking it for a real plan, however, could be dangerous.
 
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All year around? Yeah, that’s not realistic. In the meantime, watch Jack Hargreaves’s on YouTube - whilst bearing in mind the lifestyle he speaks of was in its dying days in the 80s.
 
I would also like to know why your friend wants to leave a van and go live in a horse-drawn wagon; I have my suspicions why but would like to actually know why. I can certainly see the appeal of the lifestyle, however even if we ignore the fact she isn't horsey, for a single person especially a female it is probably not a wise undertaking.

I realise she lives in a van already but a van can be moved swiftly away from trouble, a van cannot be subjected to the abuse and attacks that an animal can, and a van is also welcome on virtually every campsite in the UK. Living in a horse-drawn wagon will bring with it other challenges, such as she will automatically be assumed to be a traveller and treated accordingly. This could make life extremely difficult.

Lets say she does decide to go ahead with this. She needs to learn complete horse care, including basic veterinary treatment and recognising illness. She needs to manage the equipment the horse will be using (harness, tether, headcollar, buckets etc.) and ensure it is kept clean and in good working condition. She needs to learn how to drive the horse competently on the UK roads. She needs to learn how to manage and maintain the wagon itself, including being able to do small repairs and recognising when more professional assistance is required. That lot alone is going to take a huge amount of money and a lot longer than 4 years to obtain.
She'll also need to grow a very thick skin and know how to defend herself because she will find herself the subject of abuse, verbal almost certainly but it could become physical and she's got no backup to help if it does.

In all honesty, she would be much better off upgrading her van (if it needs it) and continuing her current lifestyle.
 
its insane to consider and very selfish of your friend. its a living animal and she wont be able to can't afford it proper security or comfort. or even have enough horsemanship to manage it.

I've friends who live in vans full time and they really struggle to find safe parking. they are often attacked by people and have their van pelted and pushed around while they are in it. I absolutely wouldn't subject an animal to being tethered outside in random locations. you are asking for trouble.

for my van-life friends, its a real hassle for them to get clean water regularly and to keep their van light enough but still manage to fit everything they need. I cannot imagine how someone would carry enough forage and feed to keep an animal. my friends have a van jammed with stuff., there's no way they could fit feed bags and forage as well!

what happens if it gets lame or injured? where does it lie down and shelter in bad weather or storms? what happens if the cart breaks or horse is lame and you run out feed? or water or food for yourself. do you just go off and leave the animal by itself? because this are situations that will happen.

you had generations of people who lived in horse drawn carts and there's a reason why they only do it for a limited period a year now. and those people had tons of support and experience. if they have a problem they had a support network countrywide they could call on. your friend won't. your friend is bonkers and whatever issues she has going on in her life, please don't encourage her to drag a poor horse into it.
 
Goldie's mum said:
My horses live out without the luxury of stables but I know exactly where they will be living out tomorrow. I know the fences will be secure, I know how much & what quality the grass will be, I will have walked around in daylight so I know there wont be any litter amongst tomorrow's grass. I know where the nearest vet is & that I have phone reception. I have access to radiators to dry rugs. I have a feed store. I have good neighbours who know me well and I know how to contact them in an emergency.
I have another person to carry one end of a heavy thing, pass me the poultice while I hold the foot etc.
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Your very lucky to have si many things but i woukd also say quite high in your needs.
The lifestyle certsinly owukd not suit someone who has all those needs and many are not essential.

Goldie's mum said:
If this person goes for driving lessons, the first thing she be taught at the beginning of lesson 1 is you never, ever go in a horse carriage alone because you need 2 people to put-to safely and you need someone to stand at the horse's head when you stop. You see it done with one person but it's dangerous, especially for a beginner.
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That maybe true bit many feel that about riding alone or backing youngsters alone we all manage things within our oqn comfort zones safety wise.
Goldie's mum said:
If both horses are tethered they can't interact normally & where is the company for the human? She can't even pop into a cafe or shop unless it happens to have a very quiet road outside and a big window overlooking it. Where will she keep this spare cash? Not in the wagon - they're very hard to secure & not in the bank because you can't just rock up to a cash machine in a wagon.
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Non of the things you mention here would be a worry for me and this qoman may agon not be like you with those needs
Goldie's mum said:
I am in no way being negative about this way of living. I have immense admiration for the genuine old fashioned Gypsies who have inherited that culture but it is that- a whole culture. You might not see them in big groups often but they are effectively living in a big mobile village. You can't just step into it after a few horse driving lessons any more than you could spend some time with a friend's huskies & then pop off on your own to become an Inuit.
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Well you wouldnt become a inuit no but you couldive thw lifestyle of you seont enough tine learning the skills
Goldie's mum said:
I am not being negative about this person & her ideas. An escape fantasy is a lovely way to transform a blue or boring day. Mistaking it for a real plan, however, could be dangerous.
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It could but thats life
 
twiggy2 said:
That maybe true bit many feel that about riding alone or backing youngsters alone we all manage things within our oqn comfort zones safety wise.

Non of the things you mention here would be a worry for me and this qoman may agon not be like you with those needs
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Sorry, but driving alone is a HUGE safety issue. You must have a groom. Lots of people drive off road on their own property alone and take that risk, but you cannot safely go out on the road alone. You cant see at road junctions due to how far back you are. So you'd either be sending the horse out first blindly into the path of cars, or you could never cross a junction. You cant open gates or similar, as you never get out of a carriage without someone at the horses head.

If something goes wrong you cant leave the carriage to go to the horse or you risk a loose horse and carriage. Thats the grooms job. They go to the horses head and steady it, and in a real emergency, they hold the horse while the driver quickly unhitches. Backing a pony on your own risks your own neck. Messing about driving horses on the road alone risks everyone's neck. The damage a panicked horse and carriage can do is enormous.

My boy is absolutely rock steady, ex traveller pony, utterly bombproof, the little mare I had was the same. I happily drove both alone, off road, in a fenced in field or school, with people around in case I needed them. That was a risk to me and one I was prepared to take. Never, ever did I go off the property without a groom.

There have still been incidents where having a groom prevented a major incident happening. The gelding panicked one day out of the blue, shot across the road and got hung up on a gate post. Most reliable horse in the world, until he wasn't. He was completely stuck and when he realised he panicked and was thrashing about trying to free himself. If I hadn't had a groom with me, I cannot imagine how it would have ended. As it was the groom hung on while I dodged flying hooves and unhitched. I wouldn't have been able to do that alone. The mare got spooked by a car flying past and spraying her with gravel and tried to leap up a bank away from it. The groom was down and at her head before she did anything, we would have been in serious trouble otherwise. Theres tons more non events, which were only non events as I had the groom with me.
 
I'm Dun said:
Sorry, but driving alone is a HUGE safety issue. You must have a groom. Lots of people drive off road on their own property alone and take that risk, but you cannot safely go out on the road alone. You cant see at road junctions due to how far back you are. So you'd either be sending the horse out first blindly into the path of cars, or you could never cross a junction. You cant open gates or similar, as you never get out of a carriage without someone at the horses head.

If something goes wrong you cant leave the carriage to go to the horse or you risk a loose horse and carriage. Thats the grooms job. They go to the horses head and steady it, and in a real emergency, they hold the horse while the driver quickly unhitches. Backing a pony on your own risks your own neck. Messing about driving horses on the road alone risks everyone's neck. The damage a panicked horse and carriage can do is enormous.

My boy is absolutely rock steady, ex traveller pony, utterly bombproof, the little mare I had was the same. I happily drove both alone, off road, in a fenced in field or school, with people around in case I needed them. That was a risk to me and one I was prepared to take. Never, ever did I go off the property without a groom.

There have still been incidents where having a groom prevented a major incident happening. The gelding panicked one day out of the blue, shot across the road and got hung up on a gate post. Most reliable horse in the world, until he wasn't. He was completely stuck and when he realised he panicked and was thrashing about trying to free himself. If I hadn't had a groom with me, I cannot imagine how it would have ended. As it was the groom hung on while I dodged flying hooves and unhitched. I wouldn't have been able to do that alone. The mare got spooked by a car flying past and spraying her with gravel and tried to leap up a bank away from it. The groom was down and at her head before she did anything, we would have been in serious trouble otherwise. Theres tons more non events, which were only non events as I had the groom with me.
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I dont disagree (I have only very rarely driven ponies) I was just pointing out we all have different levels of what we find acceptable
 
Nothing to add but that I follow a family on a canal boat on fb and they sometimes (not often) don't feel safe on their mooring and will change their plans and find a quieter spot, which would be trickier with a horse. I appreciate that you are just trying to fact find for a friend but I think it would be a difficult way of life. I sometimes finish work late at night and there is a lot going on round the lanes in the middle of the night and I am not sure I would want to camp at the side of a road.
 
I wouldn't even feel safe leaving a dog tied up outside a shop. I would imagine a caravan would be ransacked very easily if left unattended. there's no planet in the universe where I would tie my horse up in a public place and come back 30 mins later. the roads nowadays are lethal for horses, it's bad enough hacking.
 
sollimum said:
Nothing to add but that I follow a family on a canal boat on fb and they sometimes (not often) don't feel safe on their mooring and will change their plans and find a quieter spot, which would be trickier with a horse. I appreciate that you are just trying to fact find for a friend but I think it would be a difficult way of life. I sometimes finish work late at night and there is a lot going on round the lanes in the middle of the night and I am not sure I would want to camp at the side of a road.
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Holly the cafe boat?
 
Goldie's mum said:
@Lacuna
The hive brain seems roundly of the opinion that your friend shouldn't be contemplating this but please don't feel got at. It is very kind of you to try to help your friend & in the end the decision is hers not yours (or ours!).
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Hi All, sorry not to have been on the thread (been offline for a few days). A bit more info has been forthcoming as I was showing her my old harness which we were putting on and of my old cob.
She has traveller family but is currently living alone with her kids in a van. She wants to do horsedrawn as a 'heritage' choice - she is currently looking for a field to rent, so I'm assuming any horse she gets would be living there and only pulling a wagon on weekends/summer.
I do keep referencing the costs of horse ownership - insurance/vet/farrier as minimum as well as feed etc. She is at least doing some homework and I do kind of hope that it peters out over the next year or so.

I keep feeling that its fine at the moment whilst the grass is growing and the ground is hard, but we have just had 7 months of the worst mud in Pembrokeshire. I struggle to keep my horses well and the ground in good enough condition to get to spring with stables available.
 
Lacuna said:
She wants to do horsedrawn as a 'heritage' choice - she is currently looking for a field to rent, so I'm assuming any horse she gets would be living there and only pulling a wagon on weekends/summer.
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Person with little to no horse experience having to manage horses and land without a knowledgeable YM around or even some liveries to care for the horses when she can't? Christ, she's going to need to do a lot of homework.
 
Lacuna said:
Hi All, sorry not to have been on the thread (been offline for a few days). A bit more info has been forthcoming as I was showing her my old harness which we were putting on and of my old cob.
She has traveller family but is currently living alone with her kids in a van. She wants to do horsedrawn as a 'heritage' choice - she is currently looking for a field to rent, so I'm assuming any horse she gets would be living there and only pulling a wagon on weekends/summer.
I do keep referencing the costs of horse ownership - insurance/vet/farrier as minimum as well as feed etc. She is at least doing some homework and I do kind of hope that it peters out over the next year or so.

I keep feeling that its fine at the moment whilst the grass is growing and the ground is hard, but we have just had 7 months of the worst mud in Pembrokeshire. I struggle to keep my horses well and the ground in good enough condition to get to spring with stables available.
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How on earth is she going to fit herself and kids in a bow top?! They are tiny.

Where is she going to be living while said horse is all alone in a field? If she thinks she will get away with living part time at the field, she wont. Councils are more than wise to this, to the point they send up drones to cover more rural areas.
 
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