Transitioning to barefoot - please help

[orangegrace]

Hi all,

Looking for any advice, reassurance, information. After struggling with my geldings feet for a long time now, dry crumbling hooves which don't grow, suffer a lot with bacteria and very thin souls I have been really seriously considering taking off his shoes. He has the kind of feet that typically would be said not to be able to go barefoot. He also has arthritis in his hocks which is treated with steroid injections.

The idea scares me to death but the more I think about it the more I think its what is best for him. I am worried that his feet just wont cope without shoes and that I don't have the facilities to be able to transition him in the perfect way. A bit of background on his management.. he is on a livery yard so I am restricted in some ways but we do manage our own fields. I have been keeping him on a track in his field which has really made a difference to him weight wise. I have tried to keep him on very low levels of grass but he becomes much sharper and grumpy (even with lots of hay) so that's not an option but keeping him on the track system seems to have allowed me to let him have the grass but really kept his weight down so I will continue with that. He is out at night at the moment and in in the day but will be changing over within the next week to in over night and out during the day. We do a bit of everything with schooling, dressage, jumping and hacking. Out hacking is over some quite stony ground/roads before we can reach the grassy tracks. Our yard is also stony tracks to the fields.

His diet:
Honeychop light and healthy
Equimins advanced
magnesium
Boswellia
soaked thunderbrooks meadow nuts

I will start by taking off the hind shoes first. Will he need boots straight away ? Should I be giving him time off for a while? I know he will be sore but for how long? How sore it too sore ? I know no one can answer any of these questions for definite but any guidance would be really appreciated.

My main concerns are:
Having to give him too much time off. This isn't good for his brain but his body also really suffers when I don't work him. He looses muscle quickly and suppleness and becomes stiffer. I have to keep in mind his arthritis.
I don't want him to overload on the front because his feet are sore without shoes and this causes/exacerbates issues with front feet.
I don't want him to be in pain obviously

I'm sorry this is a bit of a ramble but I wanted to include as much information as possible. I know no-one can can all of my questions but any reassurance/advice would be really appreciated. xx

 

[ester]

1) Don't panic
2) Consider hiring a trimmer who has done similar rehabs to hold your hand (this was a big help to me with a flat soled footy one).
3) I would have no expectations of levels of work he will manage but reducing work doesn't mean no work just what he is capable of. Mine had his off at 19 and the track and hand walking was sufficient to keep him comfy and he didn't loose much muscle tone. I wouldn't particularly give him time off but would tailor what he did to what his comfort levels were telling me.

I would probably get some cheap easyish on/off cavallo boots or similar to facilitate him getting to and from the field if you need them, and if you don't need them you can flog them on again down the line.

Can you road walk him from the yard?

How sore is too sore is hard to define and has to be what you are comfortable with, I would always err on the side of booting any soreness in the early days - we were ok for 6 weeks but footy in front on the roads for 6 months after so was booted for all road work, once we got to grass I would hop off and take them off so he could do some bare work then pop them on again for the way home.

As a bit of an aside to that I would make sure you keep up physio/bodyworker during transition time.

 

[Sasana Skye]

I don't have much advice but just to let you know that it's not just you having these panics, I had them all too when I decided to take my mare barefoot. But it was the best decision I made, especially for her. They sound like they were in quite similar situations - mine has minor arthritic changes in her hocks too, and she has thin soles. And on a livery yard with ex-dairy grazing and no option to manage it ourselves. I couldn't have her out of work either because when she gets weak and loses muscle she gets sore spots along her back.
I took all of my mares shoes off at once in July and left her in the field for a couple of weeks to see how she did, she was happy as larry cantering around like a loon so I started riding her in the fields at home and she was absolutely fine on grass. I did lots of in hand walking around the yard which is quite stony and out on the roads for conditioning. I started hacking after a while but I'd hand walk her past the car park where there are stones and then get on along a grass verge once we got out onto smooth tarmac roads.
3 months barefoot and I took her on a 10 mile ride yesterday including roadwork and a few farm tracks without boots and she coped really well, I just let her go at her own pace over the rough bits.
Diet is everything for horn quality and it sounds like you have it covered. If he gets sore then you can boot up and continue work as before.

My only advice is obvious really and that's just to be patient.

 

[orangegrace]

1) Don't panic
2) Consider hiring a trimmer who has done similar rehabs to hold your hand (this was a big help to me with a flat soled footy one).
3) I would have no expectations of levels of work he will manage but reducing work doesn't mean no work just what he is capable of. Mine had his off at 19 and the track and hand walking was sufficient to keep him comfy and he didn't loose much muscle tone. I wouldn't particularly give him time off but would tailor what he did to what his comfort levels were telling me.

I would probably get some cheap easyish on/off cavallo boots or similar to facilitate him getting to and from the field if you need them, and if you don't need them you can flog them on again down the line.

Can you road walk him from the yard?

How sore is too sore is hard to define and has to be what you are comfortable with, I would always err on the side of booting any soreness in the early days - we were ok for 6 weeks but footy in front on the roads for 6 months after so was booted for all road work, once we got to grass I would hop off and take them off so he could do some bare work then pop them on again for the way home.

As a bit of an aside to that I would make sure you keep up physio/bodyworker during transition time.

thanks so much. that is really helpful. I have looked into boot but there is so many it just hurt my head! How would I know the best boots/sizes to get? I did have a look at the scoot boots as they have lots of good reviews.

Yeah I can road walk him to some grassy tracks and we do have a school so I can work him in there too. My thinking was this time of year would be best as the ground is harder and I can only hack at weekends because I work in the week once the clocks have changed.

I will defo keep up the body work. He is seen to every 3 months anyway xx

 

[orangegrace]

I don't have much advice but just to let you know that it's not just you having these panics, I had them all too when I decided to take my mare barefoot. But it was the best decision I made, especially for her. They sound like they were in quite similar situations - mine has minor arthritic changes in her hocks too, and she has thin soles. And on a livery yard with ex-dairy grazing and no option to manage it ourselves. I couldn't have her out of work either because when she gets weak and loses muscle she gets sore spots along her back.
I took all of my mares shoes off at once in July and left her in the field for a couple of weeks to see how she did, she was happy as larry cantering around like a loon so I started riding her in the fields at home and she was absolutely fine on grass. I did lots of in hand walking around the yard which is quite stony and out on the roads for conditioning. I started hacking after a while but I'd hand walk her past the car park where there are stones and then get on along a grass verge once we got out onto smooth tarmac roads.
3 months barefoot and I took her on a 10 mile ride yesterday including roadwork and a few farm tracks without boots and she coped really well, I just let her go at her own pace over the rough bits.
Diet is everything for horn quality and it sounds like you have it covered. If he gets sore then you can boot up and continue work as before.

My only advice is obvious really and that's just to be patient.

Thank you. That's so reassuring to hear that your mare was so similar to my boy. It's so hard when you don't know what's best/going to work to take the plunge. I am trying to reassure myself that I wont do any permanent damage by trying and that if it fails spectacularly I can just put his shoes back on!

 

[flying_high]

My suggestions:



Find a good rehab barefoot trimmer. Get them out to assess feet and confirm are can work with you and horse



Wait 3-4 weeks after last shod so feet longer.



Stock up on redhorse solecleanse, artimud, hoof paste and talcum powder, athletes foot powder, and a tiny screwdriver for flicking grit out of white line.

Buy right size nappies, and vast amounts of duct tape too.



Get trimmer to come back on agreed date and remove shoes (I’d not ask farrier as tend to be tempted to tidy / trim).



Get trimmer to measure feet and advise on hoof boots.



Buy second hand hoof boots ASAP (but only after trimmer has measured and advised on which boots will work).



Short term use a nappy, a thin camping mat cut to foot shape, and make ductape boot, and turn out as normal until hoof boots arrive. It is a royal pain to do, but if get duct tape sheet, and boot done well will stay on and camping mat prevents wearing through toe.



If add tiny bit of water to nappy it will puff up and add even more cushioning.



Expect to have trimmer out to trim horse frequently at first, and feet to change shape quite a bit.



You might go through 3 pairs of hoof boots in first 3 months, as feet change size and shape.



May need wraps / heel protectors / socks to prevent boots rubbing heels.



If provide good foot protection and don’t let horse get sore, am sure will be fine.

 

[ester]

Boot wise, fit is imperative but some are a bit more forgiving on that. Mine was a bit unusual in that he has fitted 2.5 easyboot gloves since the day the shoes came off, to 7 years later. Either trimmer can advise or we have some great online shops that are good at looking at photos. You may want something that you have room to put a decent pad in if you need it (which rules out the lower profile/sportier boots like gloves/scoots/renegades).

What surface is your school?

And yes you can always put shoes back on, it's not a permanent state either way

I'd aim for not trimming when shoes come off as any extra length can help them along.

Re. the road walking, it is very beneficial generally, but best increased slowly.

 

[orangegrace]

Thank you again, that's really helpful !

The school surface is sand and rubber. Not the best but not too bad at all really.

As I am just starting with removing the hinds do you think I will need boots 24/7 or just for hacking providing he isn't too sore ? Or should he be out of the boots as much as possible again as long as he isn't too uncomfortable? I am hoping that he will be okay in the field/school without shoes but he may need them for getting to/from the field and also for hacking.

 

[ester]

I only mention it as some can find sand too abrasive to start.

Annoyingly you really do need to see how he goes. I think out of boots as much as possible is beneficial to general hoof health and improving things but not if it means they are avoiding correct landing due to discomfort.

 

[tallyho!]

Definitely don't panic! First remember that it is in the most part, shoes that cause problems (not always but mostly!) and taking them off requires all of this forethought and planning which you are already doing! Have you armed yourself with a good barefoot book? Looked up Rockley farm or any of the the wealth of info on line?

Next, do not do it alone and unless your farrier has a list of successfully working barefoot horses on his books, then his speciality is shoeing, not barefoot. So find a trimmer with a recognised qualification from the UK - the only training recognised by LANTRA is the EPAUK course. Their website has a list of qualified trimmers. It takes two years to get the qualification. This will take the stress out and you can both go through it together.

That's the way I did it. 10 years ago.

 

[orangegrace]

I only mention it as some can find sand too abrasive to start.

Annoyingly you really do need to see how he goes. I think out of boots as much as possible is beneficial to general hoof health and improving things but not if it means they are avoiding correct landing due to discomfort.

Right, I've got that straight in my head then I think. I think I will aim to keep him (all being well) bare in the field and stable and hopefully the school then I will get some boots sorted for moving too and from the field if required and for hacking. I can always pad him up to get to the field in the meantime if he needs it. I feel I know the signs of whether he is struggling too much with the plan then I can change tactics. Will he be okay with having boots on the hinds and shoes on the front ?

 

[orangegrace]

Definitely don't panic! First remember that it is in the most part, shoes that cause problems (not always but mostly!) and taking them off requires all of this forethought and planning which you are already doing! Have you armed yourself with a good barefoot book? Looked up Rockley farm or any of the the wealth of info on line?

Next, do not do it alone and unless your farrier has a list of successfully working barefoot horses on his books, then his speciality is shoeing, not barefoot. So find a trimmer with a recognised qualification from the UK - the only training recognised by LANTRA is the EPAUK course. Their website has a list of qualified trimmers. It takes two years to get the qualification. This will take the stress out and you can both go through it together.

That's the way I did it. 10 years ago.

Yes I do keep reminding myself that this is the right thing to do for him but I feel so stressed at not doing it right. All the help on here has made me feel better though and I feel better just taking off the hinds first. I have done lots of reading but it all gets so confusing as you read so many different contradicting opinions and it hurts my head and makes me feel more stressed! I have looked at Rockley farm and Gawsworth Track livery which I both find fascinating but I have such different facilities available (on a livery yard ) I worry about successfully transitioning without the range of surfaces/24/7 turnout that these places have.

thank you for the recommendation of the website. I will definitely have a look at that! x

 

[tallyho!]

You could take the backs off first... people usually find this is no problem which then gives them the confidence with the fronts. There's no right or wrong way. Since you have winter coming and the ground is soft, it's the ideal time to take off fronts otherwise you will be waiting another year if we have a summer with ground as hard as it was this summer.

I took the plunge over a winter... he had awful feet. We'd been on a long road so this was the last chance saloon - sad really. Knowing what I know now, bf should be No.1. The starter for ten. First thing to try. Nevermind, that was then. So we'd been told with his navicular and recurrent lami - it's curtains. So, I employed who in my mind was an Angel! Sent to help my boy. She helped me through the whole thing and all I had to do was give him the gift of TIME. He was let out 24/7 of an Autumn morning in a herd and basically had the run of 40acres. (I know, yes he was laminitic but obviously the micromanagement style didn't work for him - can you imagine my stress levels!!! ) I only brought him down for trimming every four weeks. His hooves transformed. Started some riding in January and no drama... by July, we were out doing hunter trials across a VERY hard ground and we came 3rd!

 

[ester]

TH OP said she was taking the backs off first
yes fine with boots behind shoes in front if you need them.
Don't forget to take good photos (follow what rockley does for those)
and well, some of us kind of live here, if you need extra guidance

It is hard being patient and not knowing if it is going to be the solution or not but for those it is it can be bloomin brilliant (hence why are all here talking about it )

 

[tallyho!]

Ha! Some of us live here!! 🤣🤣

 

[ester]

I reckon march for the 50k posts party lol

 

[orangegrace]

You could take the backs off first... people usually find this is no problem which then gives them the confidence with the fronts. There's no right or wrong way. Since you have winter coming and the ground is soft, it's the ideal time to take off fronts otherwise you will be waiting another year if we have a summer with ground as hard as it was this summer.

I took the plunge over a winter... he had awful feet. We'd been on a long road so this was the last chance saloon - sad really. Knowing what I know now, bf should be No.1. The starter for ten. First thing to try. Nevermind, that was then. So we'd been told with his navicular and recurrent lami - it's curtains. So, I employed who in my mind was an Angel! Sent to help my boy. She helped me through the whole thing and all I had to do was give him the gift of TIME. He was let out 24/7 of an Autumn morning in a herd and basically had the run of 40acres. (I know, yes he was laminitic but obviously the micromanagement style didn't work for him - can you imagine my stress levels!!! ) I only brought him down for trimming every four weeks. His hooves transformed. Started some riding in January and no drama... by July, we were out doing hunter trials across a VERY hard ground and we came 3rd!

Yep I am definitely going to start with just taking off the hinds! I will get the farrier to remove the backs and reshoe the front then fingers crossed I will be able to remove the fronts weeks later. Although I will be happy if I can just remove the hind shoes at the moment.

I have tried to find the website with the qualified trimmer list but no such luck. Do you have an actual link for where I need to have a look please ? My good friend down the yard does use a barefoot trimmer but I don't know anything about her so I would like to do my own research too/see if she is on the list etc.

that's an amazing success story! My horses feet are so rubbish I just cant ever imagine being able to get his super comfortable which is what really really worries me sick

 

[orangegrace]

TH OP said she was taking the backs off first
yes fine with boots behind shoes in front if you need them.
Don't forget to take good photos (follow what rockley does for those)
and well, some of us kind of live here, if you need extra guidance

It is hard being patient and not knowing if it is going to be the solution or not but for those it is it can be bloomin brilliant (hence why are all here talking about it )

thank you so much. I really appreciate the support. I am a natural worrier so making a huge change like this really makes my anxiety levels off the scale ! I really hope I can make it work but his feet are so bad I cant ever envisage him being comfortable without shoes. I keep telling myself even if I can get him comfortable without the back shoes I have improved his well being!

 

[flying_high]

Have you thought about getting your trimmer to use Hoof Armour? Provides some foot protection from wear.

 

[Tarragon]

There is also a very good closed facebook page you can join.
You won't know until you try it what problems you are going to face but the advice already given is spot on.
I have both my ponies barefoot and don't use boots either though I do have a pair of EasyBoot Back Country glove that I can use. I do my own trimming but have a barefoot trimmer in 3 or 4 times a year to check on balance etc and to keep an eye on me. He gives me his old rasps!
I do find that I have had to make a few compromises because I don't use boots. I make sure I do enough road riding for self-trimming and I sometimes have to avoid the stonier rides at certain times of the year and play it by ear. So yes, once or twice a year they might seem a bit footy because I have got something wrong and if they are i change the routes and make use of the grass verges and review their diet. They tell me what they want.
I have found that instead of checking on the state of their shoes I am constantly checking on the health and state of their hooves which must be a good thing. I am so much more aware now!
I feed my two Thunderbrooks grass nuts and base mix with basic un-molassed chop so very similar to you.