Transporting with/without passport - advice needed!!

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pitter_patter

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I've been lucky enough to be given a horse on loan, but at the grand age of 9
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has only just been passported!!

I'd like to take him to a show in 2 weeks, but his passort has not come through the post yet. He's had the full works of the micro-chip etc etc in accordance with the new rules.

So is it acceptable to move a horse without actual passport paperwork? It IS done it's just going through the system and my vet could verify this for me.

Also I know that going to a show could be viewed as 'frivolous' and not being moved out of necessity - but what if I did have to move him in a case of emergency?

I know it's terrible that he's waited so long for a passport, but it's been me doing all the hard work to get it done, the owner just wasn't that bothered.

Advice required please - so I take him or not?
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Take him. The passport has been applied for, which can be proven so there is no reason not to take him. I have been to shows with people that I know don't even posess a passport! The only query I would have would be his vaccinations - does he have a seperate record of those? Although if it is a local show, I doubt they will ask for vaccination records, and half the ponies there probably don't have them anyway.

I always take my passports etc to county shows and not once have I had to produce it or a vaccination certificate.
 
We've got no record of vaccinations at all. The owner has used all kinds of vets (not one consistent one). However I KNOW what he has and hasn't done since I've had him and I am really confident that is is fighting fit!! REALLY confident - seeing I'm the one who's paid all the vets bills!!
 
You really shouldnt be moving the horse Im afraid. And certainly not taking it to a show. You need to be able to produce the passport within only a few hours of request and you cannot do that.

Sorry but I think you need to be patient. This wont just affect you but also the owner of the horse as well.
 
See? This is what I have been thinking
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But there are some people who would say do it and some people that wouldn't. But Spaniel - say I had to move him in an emergency - what would happen then?

I have pushed and pushed to get the passports done with the least upset to all parties, so this IS the quickest I could get it done, but what if I needed to transport him to the vets? Is that any different from transporting him to a show in all reality?

I'm just throwing this open to debate really as I know I shouldn't really go, but then because passports aren't policed how they should be I know I can get away with it......
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I personally would take him... Naughty? Perhaps, but it can easily be confirmed that he has a passport on the way. Like zoe I've seen people at shows who I KNOW don't have passports for their horses, which is far worse!
 
Personally I think the whole passport thing is a farce. Someone stole two of my horses (a mare and foal) and got their vet to microchip the foal (mare already chipped) and treat both horses despite never showing the mare's passport to the vet once. When I asked the vet what he thought he was doing (after having recovered the horses) the vet replied he was doing his client "a favour". I didn't take it further with the RVCM but I guess I probably should have done. I was just relieved to have my horses back at the time! My own vet had some strong words to say to the other vet though!
 
p-p In an emergency I believe you WOULD be able to transport the horse to a vet clinic, that would be covered by animal welfare rather than passport regs.

If the horse is moving house or showing then you do need the passport and in theory your vet could say it was up to date with its injections and the passport was applied for until he was blue in the face but if TS or DEFRA dont get to SEE the passport some jobsorth will have to asssume it doesnt exist.

Lorries ARE being stopped on a regular basis now so dont rely on someone elses luck....I know exactly what would happen if I did that....Id be the one stopped!!!
 
Spaniel I think like that as well!! Especially as I've worked so blooming hard to sort this palaver out, it would be me trying to be the consiencious owner that would be the one who gets pulled up - Not any of the people without passports that have been doing it for yonks!! lmao!!

It's like people driving without insurance/MOT's etc in a way. We all know there are people out there doing it and getting away with it for years, and you are the poor soul who's MOT is late 24 hrs - as you couldn't get it booked in quickly enough - and you're the one who gets the ruddy fine!!

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Also it doesn't help when we've just been advised that there is another postal strike due in the south west again as well
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I suppose the decision at the end of the day is to either be a 'naughty' person or a 'good' person when it comes to rules.
 
If you move this horse and are stopped there are actually 3 offences you (and the owner) could be charged with.

1) the horse should have had a passport years ago (onus on the owner)
2) it is an offence to keep a horse without a passport (onus on the keeper i.e. you)
3) it is an offence to move the horse without a passport except in an emergency etc (onus on the keeper i.e. you)

I know pwople hold passport regulations in low regard, but they are law and people have been fined. Up to you if you want to take the risk.
 
I would go. You have applied for a passport and your vet has done the paperwork. I am out most weekends with the ponies usually attending the bigger shows. I do take the passports with me. I have only once been asked to show it and that was at a comblned VOSA and I think Trading Standards check. The stupid thing was that this was one month BEFORE the deadline for passports but we did have it with us.
 
As spaniel has said above, the fact that a passport has been applied for is irrelevant. You have to have it in your possession unless it is an emergency, or other specified circumstances. Going to show (unless you are hacking there) is not one of them. If you do it and are stopped and have no passport you have committed an offence.
 
Yeah, why not just take the horse.

And on the way maybe you could drive just a bit faster than the speed limit.

Then you could just ignore that red light, after all you did mean to stop.

Finally why not simply drive away from the petrol station without paying - if they check your finances they can see that you could afford it if you had to.

I think (hope) that you get my rather over-stated point, that is that the law is the law and for a reason (whether you agree with it or not). Which do you want more, the self-indulgent pleasure of a day out with your horse, or the weeks, probably months of hassle because you couldn't wait? If the horse means so much to you, why risk it?
 
Hee hee Figbat I get your point.

Just the fact that I 'mean well' I suppose doesn't make it right.

The passport COULD turn up in time - then all this is irrelevent as I will just get on with it. I don't think it will but it COULD!!!
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Hey and I always drive within the speed limits
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We went to stallion grading at the weekend and our passports for all stallions had to be left at grading to be returned to Germany to be over stamped. So I had to bring my stallion home without his passport. Was worried about this so phone DEFRA this morning and they said "You should have taken a photocopy of his passport and then explain to anyone asking you that his passport is now on its way to Germany." We might have a 4-5 week wait before his comes back. Should think that everyone else who went Sat/Sun will be in the same boat.
 
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