Treating laminitis barefoot - help please

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zoeshiloh

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OK, my mare went down with lami (blood poisoning induced) about 10 weeks ago. I have thrown money at her - had all the recommended veterinary treatment, farrier put imprints on etc.

The thing is, since she has had imprints there is no improvement, and if anything she has taken a step backwards. The farrier is desperate to put more imprints on, but I have done a lot of reading and want to attempt the barefoot route. There has been no further rotation of the pedal bone since the initial attack. She has had a lot of abcesses etc.

Normally I am not a 'barefoot' person - my horses that are ridden are shod because they need to be. However, she is not benefitting from imprints as I thought she would, and I think its time to try something else. The farrier is not keen, and is telling me all sorts of things that frighten me, ie, the shoes are supporting her foot and if they come off the pedal bone will drop through the sole as there is nothing to support it. Until now I had not had to deal with laminitis, so although I have done a lot of research, I am not in a position to really know what I am talking about. Is the farrier just trying to scare me out of barefoot and into putting on more sets of expensive shoes?

I have read Jamie Jacksons 'Founder' and looked extensively at this site; http://www.barefoothorse.com/barefoot_Founder.html and cannot see a reason not to try going barefoot. Does anyone have any other useful reading or personal experiences to help me make the decision?
 
My mare had laminitis last autumn/winter and she was barefoot before the attack, during the attack and afterwards. Although her attack was only minor in comparision to your mare's. Both vet and farrier agreed that she needed a trim to keep the heels down and that was all. She's was having trims every 6 weeks but now every 8 weeks.

Good luck to you both. I wish you and your mare luck in treating this horrible illness.
 
My advice is to get a 'good' experienced (in rehabilitating horses with laminits) Barefoot Trimmer out for a consultation and discussion of what it may entail and decide from there. It may well mean big changes for you and your horse in diet, management, foot protection etc. You need to be aware of all this stuff.
 
What does your vet say about it? Do your vet and farrier work together? Your farrier is correct in telling you that the pedal bones need support. Why don't you contact Imprint shoes direct and discuss your situation with them? I would do that and maybe get a second opinion from a veterinary viewpoint before attempting a radical change.
 
amandap said:
My advice is to get a 'good' experienced (in rehabilitating horses with laminits) Barefoot Trimmer out for a consultation and discussion of what it may entail and decide from there.QUOTE]

I agree with this. I don't think a farrier is always the right way to go with laminitis. I'd definately get a decent barefoot trimmer out to see what they think and take it from there. Our two lami-prone ponies are kept barefoot trimmed, both of them went down with it - one went the farrier route with heartbar shoes etc. etc. and the other just stayed barefoot. Its hard for me to judge to be honest as the first pony took a year to come right whereas the other one got over her bout quicker BUT the first pony I think took the laminitis so much worse in the first place... If it happened again, I wouldnt shoe.
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Hi there,

I have just been through this and my horse is now sound! Sound after 2 weeks of getting a barefoot trimmer, changing diet and starting an exercise plan.

These are the angels that changed my horses world.

Lucy Priory (Barefoot Trimmer, she covers Suffolk)
http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/

Debbie at Thunderbrook Equestrian
www.thunderbrook.co.uk

Caroline Andresen
www.aanhcpbarefoot.co.uk/

All I can say is be open minded and give it a go. I spent £500 on vet bills in September, and horse got worse not better.

In October I spend £40 on a trim (including travelling to me) and £35 on feed, my horse is now sound and I know how to look after his lami problems for life.

Phone them all up, they are super friendly and want to help. Listen to them and give it a go your horse has nothing to loose but time in unecessary pain.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
 
tangosmum said:
In October I spend £40 on a trim (including travelling to me) and £35 on feed, my horse is now sound and I know how to look after his lami problems for life.
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Yes, laminitis IS a lifetime problem and imo it's the owner that makes the difference in the end with diet and management. Great blog, I've been reading it.
 
The pedal bone within the foot is supported by lamanea to the inside of the hoof wall. A bit like a trampoline. The part you jump on is linked to the outer frame by springs. If you relate the springs to the lamanae then you can visualise what is going on.

The fact is that the more destruction there has been to the laminae the more the pedal bone will rotate/sink due to the weight of the horse. This is why it is so important to catch Laminitis early.

To help stabialise the pedal bone a rubber foot support should be fitted on each foot (obtained from the Laminitis Trust - Robert Eustace the vet that specialises in Laminitis) and remain on the horse until it goes sound and stay on then for a further 6 weeks.

Imprint shoes have their use but only in my opinion once the horse has been sound for 6 weeks.
 
My mare had laminitis after surgery earlier this year, so similar to yours in that it wasn't diet-induced. She had been barefoot for 10 years prior to the operation, but the vet insisted that she needed shoes after it. I left the shoes on for the first month after surgery, but, again like you, read loads about barefoot rehab during that time. The shoes came off and stayed off, I took her off painkillers and turned her out (it was March, so not that much grass, but they had haylage). She hasn't looked back and she has nearly grown in her entire 'new' foot. She came back into work in about July (she had to heal from the operation as well as the laminitis).
Everything I've read and experienced leads me to think that barefoot is the best route for a laminitic. I found the Laminitis Trust no help at all - they seemed very set in their ways and if I had followed their recommendations I think I would have ended up with a less sound horse who was insane from box rest. There is a lot of support on here and also on the UKNHPC forum, and as others have said, an experienced trimmer is a godsend.
 
The best thing about my low grade lami pony being barefoot is that I can monitor his symptoms so easily and respond accordingly... Any sensitivity in his feet it is obvious and I know I have to look immediately at diet and management and decide what is causing the problem.

Remember what is going on in the foot is just a symptom of the problem in the gut. Get the tummy sorted and the feet will be fine.

My LGL pony has just gone from night time turn out to day time turn out, (livery yard closed fields at night) and had a flare up. It took 48 hours of daytime gorging to give him swollen hocks and become pottery on stoney ground.

A trim helped massively and 2 days off the grass have brought him sound, he will now be on restricted grazing during the day and have access to a sand pen to move about in. If he had shoes on I would only have had the swollen hocks...and probably not the key giveaway of the footiness on the stones.

I love him being barefoot. His feet tell me how happy or not he is!
 
Does it not depend on the stage of the laminitis? When it is acute the shoes come off and some form of sole support is needed, as well as trimming. The mechanics of the laminitic process make this support necessary until the laminae stabilise. After that I think there are various schools of thought, and the right approach will depend on the individual needs of the horse.
 
I think each horse is different.
My lad went down with laminitis for the 1st time in 8 yrs off owning him and after x rays he had 16% rotation. His x rays were put on disc for my farrier to view and see how to trim his feet. He stayed bare footed until 8 months later when the damaged foot as at the bottom and he was so foot sore he had to have shoes on, his shoes should be able to come off again after all the weak damaged hoof has gone
 
I don't see how shoes can help lamitics in the slightest and feel it's probably the worst thing you can do to hoove with acute laminitis.

The pain comes from the imflamed laminia, which suspend the internal structures from the hoof wall. How putting shoes on and forcing the hoof to be almost entirely wall loading would possibly help a laminitic horse is beyond me.

The best and quickest way to make the horse comfortable is to transfere as much weigth and pressure off the wall and onto the frogs and sole. Since most horses don't have the foot developement to sustain that initially boots and pads are needed.

We had a laminitic shetland X with the most horrific damage to his feet and 15% of rotation. He survived because he had his feet trimmed to remove as much pressure from the walls and possible and lived in very well padded boots so he walked almost entirely on his soles and frogs.

Over time he developed a massively, unbeleiveable, thick sole and it gave his feet a chace to grow down properly at the right angle. Once he no longer needed it it peeled off - I was picking his feet and frogs out one day when my hoof pick slide under the sole and lifted the whole thing off to expose new healthy sole underneath.

I think the farriers scaremoungering! - how is a rim of shoe on the outside going to stop the pedal bone (which is in the middle) from dropping? Even if they're heartbar shoes. I think it highlights a problem with many farriers - they don't know how to (or won't) treat a problem without shoes. If your farrier is not one of those who are willing try oter methods then I'd find someone who is, either another good farrier or a barefoot trimmer. I'd go with a trimmer mainly because they will also be able to advise you on boots and pads, as well as diet and management.
 
The imprint shoe is not, as far as I know, the same as a metal rim shoe. It is designed to provide the support required. Acute laminitics don't usually have shoes on, as has already been said. The farrier is correct to point out that without support the risk of rotation and pedal bones penetrating the sole is much greater.
 
soloequestrian said:
I found the Laminitis Trust no help at all - they seemed very set in their ways and if I had followed their recommendations I think I would have ended up with a less sound horse .
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Can you explain more of what you have said here (I am genuinely interested - not writing in a different tone! Just incase you thought that sounded like I was, trouble with writing it and not being able to say it.. lol)

Thanks,
 
heidirusso said:
Can you explain more of what you have said here (I am genuinely interested - not writing in a different tone! Just incase you thought that sounded like I was, trouble with writing it and not being able to say it.. lol)

Thanks,
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I can't really remember the details of the (brief) conversation I had because they made me cross, but basically I said that I wanted to rehab my horse barefoot and they told me that was impossible and that I should have her shod and on box rest for at least a month after she had come off the metformin, which would have given her about three months on box rest. I'd read all the stuff I could find on barefoot rehab by then, so knew that it was perfectly possible to do. I think the barefoot route makes so much more sense, for reasons that others have already put into this thread. You can't put a pedal bone back into the position it came from, you can only support the horse in growing a hoof to match the new angle of the pedal bone (which will eventually 'correct' itself if the horse stays healthy). My horse had shoes on, at the vet's insistence (because of the operation she had), initially, and I couldn't believe how squashed and unhealthy the feet looked when they came off. My horses are all barefoot, so I'm used to looking at a bare hoof. I had only rung the Trust because the vet said they were good.
I also don't agree with what the Trust say about feeding haylage to laminitics, although my case was an unusual one in that she didn't have a dietary trigger for the disease.
 
It is so difficult, it so depends on the horse, their feet, the degree of rotation and how they are reacting to treatment. When my lad went down with it and had 12 degrees rotation in one fore, the vet recommended heart bars for the support side of things (he was shod before) and highly recommended not taking shoes off (being the other option).
He had heart bars on for a couple of months and was improving really well but each time he was shod he would go downhill for a while and he kept having flare ups for no apparent reason.
Due to reasons I will not go into I had the vets farrier look at him on a couple of occasions and he recommended getting rid of the heart bars as he felt that combined with an inadequate trim from my own farrier, that they were just creating pressure un-neccessarily and whilst it was a gamble putting him back into 'normal' shoes...it was worth the try. He walked off almost sound from the shoeing and never looked back...progress all the way from then on.
Not sure what the point is here but it is interesting and there is no one solution to any of it.
 
soloequestrian said:
I can't really remember the details of the (brief) conversation I had because they made me cross, but basically I said that I wanted to rehab my horse barefoot and they told me that was impossible and that I should have her shod and on box rest for at least a month after she had come off the metformin, which would have given her about three months on box rest. I'd read all the stuff I could find on barefoot rehab by then, so knew that it was perfectly possible to do. I think the barefoot route makes so much more sense, for reasons that others have already put into this thread. You can't put a pedal bone back into the position it came from, you can only support the horse in growing a hoof to match the new angle of the pedal bone (which will eventually 'correct' itself if the horse stays healthy). My horse had shoes on, at the vet's insistence (because of the operation she had), initially, and I couldn't believe how squashed and unhealthy the feet looked when they came off. My horses are all barefoot, so I'm used to looking at a bare hoof. I had only rung the Trust because the vet said they were good.
I also don't agree with what the Trust say about feeding haylage to laminitics, although my case was an unusual one in that she didn't have a dietary trigger for the disease.
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Thanks for that, so interesting listening to peples experiences and how they dealt with it.
 
soloequestrian said:
I can't really remember the details of the (brief) conversation I had because they made me cross, but basically I said that I wanted to rehab my horse barefoot and they told me that was impossible and that I should have her shod and on box rest for at least a month after she had come off the metformin, which would have given her about three months on box rest. I'd read all the stuff I could find on barefoot rehab by then, so knew that it was perfectly possible to do. I think the barefoot route makes so much more sense, for reasons that others have already put into this thread. You can't put a pedal bone back into the position it came from, you can only support the horse in growing a hoof to match the new angle of the pedal bone (which will eventually 'correct' itself if the horse stays healthy). My horse had shoes on, at the vet's insistence (because of the operation she had), initially, and I couldn't believe how squashed and unhealthy the feet looked when they came off. My horses are all barefoot, so I'm used to looking at a bare hoof. I had only rung the Trust because the vet said they were good.
I also don't agree with what the Trust say about feeding haylage to laminitics, although my case was an unusual one in that she didn't have a dietary trigger for the disease.
Click to expand...

I remembered what they said to make me really cross! It may not have been in these exact words, but the meaning was the same: 'you would have to expect that your horse would NEVER be able to go without shoes again' (in her life). I remember that was the comment that totally made my mind up - the shoes were coming off as soon as possible and staying off!
 
Thank you everyone for your input - my farrier is not keen to remove the shoes, but I have told him that I no longer want to go the shod route - it really has made no difference at all, and if anything her feet are now in worse condition, and the shoes are making poulticing etc more difficult than it needs to be.

I will let you all know how it progresses.
 
zoeshiloh said:
OK, my mare went down with lami (blood poisoning induced) about 10 weeks ago. I have thrown money at her - had all the recommended veterinary treatment, farrier put imprints on etc.

The thing is, since she has had imprints there is no improvement, and if anything she has taken a step backwards. The farrier is desperate to put more imprints on, but I have done a lot of reading and want to attempt the barefoot route. There has been no further rotation of the pedal bone since the initial attack. She has had a lot of abcesses etc.

Normally I am not a 'barefoot' person - my horses that are ridden are shod because they need to be. However, she is not benefitting from imprints as I thought she would, and I think its time to try something else. The farrier is not keen, and is telling me all sorts of things that frighten me, ie, the shoes are supporting her foot and if they come off the pedal bone will drop through the sole as there is nothing to support it. Until now I had not had to deal with laminitis, so although I have done a lot of research, I am not in a position to really know what I am talking about. Is the farrier just trying to scare me out of barefoot and into putting on more sets of expensive shoes?

I have read Jamie Jacksons 'Founder' and looked extensively at this site; http://www.barefoothorse.com/barefoot_Founder.html and cannot see a reason not to try going barefoot. Does anyone have any other useful reading or personal experiences to help me make the decision?
Click to expand...

My welsh cob mare came down with laminitus last year and had 10 degree rotation in both front feet, my farrier saw the x-rays and have been trimming her feet with that in mind, he did not recommend shoes but was trimming the feet every 6 weeks, quite short which made her a little foot sore as she hates walking on the stony ground.... she has continued to improve with only remedial trimming (no shoes or imprints) she is now doing well, back in work and even doing a little jumping in the sand school.....

hope that helps in any way.... very sad to see such a pathetic figure shuffling about in the stable barely able to move...

Izzy
 
I have TWO lamanitic ponies!

My little coloured has heartbar shoes after two sets of x-rays and is doing fine. Went lame again when shoes were taken off.

My other little pony is barefoot but at the moment can hardly walk! My friends want me to have him pts but I will only do this after I have tried EVERYTHING else first!
 
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