Treating ulcers without scoping

[AntiPuck]

Is this an option?

I am really reluctant to put my horse through the travel, overnight stay in a strange place, and starving, because being the type that she is and the fact that she is now used to living out with a herd 24/7, she will find this sudden change very stressful, and if she doesn't have ulcers already she no doubt will after all of that.

The horse's symptoms are being very grumpy with other horses and resource guarding, going off of hard feeds or temporarily losing appetite (unsure if this is palatabilty-related, however, as she's the fussiest horse i've met with foods, never goes off the hay or grass), attempts to nip when grooming front half and occasionally when girthed, and noticeable increase in spookiness on ground and ridden. She has responded positively to aloe vera juice and Acid Ease supplements. I would be surprised if she didn't have ulcers, given what I know of her and how badly she took the yard move when I first bought her.

I'm wondering if it's possible to treat without scoping initially, and then monitor for improvement over the course of the treatment?

I'd appreciate hearing your experience if this is something you have done.

 

[Melody Grey]

Lots of vets are able to scope at the yard nowadays- that might be a less stressful option? If you’re looking to claim for treatment on insurance, you’ll need to scope in my experience.

 

[AntiPuck]

Lots of vets are able to scope at the yard nowadays- that might be a less stressful option? If you’re looking to claim for treatment on insurance, you’ll need to scope in my experience.

Yeah I was surprised that they wouldn't offer this, I did ask about it, but they said she'd have to come in to the hospital, unfortunately - she colicked last year so i'm fairly sure this would be excluded by insurance because of that anyway, so not worried about that part

 

[dottylottie]

personally my preference would be to treat without scoping if i had sufficient evidence to believe the horse had ulcers, but unfortunately insurance won’t cover the cost of treatment without a scope to show it’s necessary. if you’re paying out of pocket, i’d just give the vets a call and speak to them about your situation!

 

[Patterdale]

Yes.
I treated mine without scoping. Scoping is a horrid stressful procedure and I think might be enough to cause ulcers in itself in some cases.

Mine was a new horse that became girthy, spooky and bucking 6 weeks after purchase. Gave him 30 days omeprazole and symptoms stopped.

If omeprazole works then great and it was probably ulcers. If it doesn’t work then it won’t have done any harm.

It would take really extreme circumstances for me to scope, personally.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Some vets will agree to treat without scoping first.

My vet, like me and the chiro vet, were pretty sure that my mare had foregut ulcers - she was so grumpy that pts was on the cards. But my vet, who more usually talks me out of expensive unnecessary procedures, said that she ought to be scoped to be sure.

To everyone's surprise, she scoped clear. It turned out to be hind gut ulcers instead, which are actually aggravated by gastroguard, so thank goodness we got the scope done.

Mare is doing well now, though there may be residual permanent scarring of her hind gut.

The scoping procedure went smoothly. I left the mare in clinic overnight, as she was already there being looked at, and they scoped her first thing in the morning.

Good luck.

 

[SO1]

Regarding the insurance it is worth checking as colic can be caused by many things. If the vet said the colic was spasmodic then the might pay out depending on who yor insurance is with.

The ucler treatment is expensive at around 2k per month so definitely worth checking with insurance. Sucralfate and gastroguard might be depending on where the uclers are as could be gastric or glandular or hind gut

.

Yeah I was surprised that they wouldn't offer this, I did ask about it, but they said she'd have to come in to the hospital, unfortunately - she colicked last year so i'm fairly sure this would be excluded by insurance because of that anyway, so not worried about that part

 

[AntiPuck]

Some vets will agree to treat without scoping first.

My vet, like me and the chiro vet, were pretty sure that my mare had foregut ulcers - she was so grumpy that pts was on the cards. But my vet, who more usually talks me out of expensive unnecessary procedures, said that she ought to be scoped to be sure.

To everyone's surprise, she scoped clear. It turned out to be hind gut ulcers instead, which are actually aggravated by gastroguard, so thank goodness we got the scope done.

Mare is doing well now, though there may be residual permanent scarring of her hind gut.

The scoping procedure went smoothly. I left the mare in clinic overnight, as she was already there being looked at, and they scoped her first thing in the morning.

Good luck.

I'm glad to hear that she is doing better now, despite the scarring. How did you end up treating her for her hind gut ulcers, in the end?

 

[AntiPuck]

Regarding the insurance it is worth checking as colic can be caused by many things. If the vet said the colic was spasmodic then the might pay out depending on who yor insurance is with.

The ucler treatment is expensive at around 2k per month so definitely worth checking with insurance.


.

Thank you, it was an impaction colic during the very hot weather - I will double-check with them, but the last time I spoke to them they said that all gastro-intestinal issues would be excluded because of the colic (which I hadn't even claimed for, so that was very annoying to hear!)

 

[dixie]

I’ve treated without scoping first and the insurance paid out.
I did clear it with the insurance first though, so it’s worth a try. (Pet Plan).

 

[Michen]

I am in the same boat, I do have a scope booked in that's mobile but I had to wait weeks. So he will have had 3 weeks of treatment before scope.

I want to scope because some ulcers (glandular) need something other than sulphacate and omeprazole to clear them up. The treatment in all is expensive, I figure I want to do it properly.

 

[Nicnac]

Yes with an ex-racehorse who showed all the signs. Bought Abler products from Canada so it was nowhere near £2k per month which is extortionate. Worked a treat.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm glad to hear that she is doing better now, despite the scarring. How did you end up treating her for her hind gut ulcers, in the end?

Initially we put her on Succeed supplement at the vet's suggestion. More recently, and also on vet's suggestion, I got the Equibiome test run on her, which showed that her hind gut biome biome was way out of kilter. She has responded well to the oily herbs and supplements recommended, and I've been able to drop the Succeed.

I was at my wit's end with her before.

There seems to be considerable resistance among some owners against scoping, but I'm very glad that my vet persuaded me to get my mare scoped.

 

[SO1]

I had presumed the same but my insurance company did pay out.

Thank you, it was an impaction colic during the very hot weather - I will double-check with them, but the last time I spoke to them they said that all gastro-intestinal issues would be excluded because of the colic (which I hadn't even claimed for, so that was very annoying to hear!)

 

[BBP]

My vets wouldn't treat without scoping, as needed to know which drugs to use and for how long. Symptoms were yawning, teeth grinding, lack of appetite, slight reaction when touching chest, EXTREME anxiety and refusal to trot or canter under saddle (pinning ears if you tried to insist). I sent him to the hospital as figured it would be more stressful to see the horses around him being fed at home, and harder to ensure he didn't eat. I then sat with him through the scope and although it isn't something you would do for fun, he coped brilliantly (and I would say he is a pretty highly strung horse). Because of the findings he went on a 2 month course of omeprazole and if I remember correctly 3 months of sucralfate and rescoped at the end. I didn't like doing the scope but I would do it again for a horse that doesn't have the classic ulcer trigger points.

 

[SO1]

Also it was through scoping that we found that Homey's problem with recent colics were because his stomach had stopped working properly and had become impacted.

In the end I had to have him PTS because after they cleared the impaction which took a week in hospital and treated the glandular ulcer and rescoped his stomach was impacted again and it would only been a matter of time before he coliced again and there was a risk his stomach would have ruptured so to save him a painful death I let him go whilst he was still ok. It was all done under BEVA guidelines. I had a good vet and the insurance company NFU who advised me to claim when I called to explain what was going on as I really did not think I could claim.

If I had not have scoped for ulcers it would only have been a matter of time before he coliced again or his stomach ruptured. I nearly lost him after the colic which caused us to scope for ulcers. Scoping for ulcers revealed a different problem was the primary cause of his colics.

If you don't scope and it is not ulcers you may be delaying treatment for something else and paying for an expensive treatment that is not needed. Why pump a horse full of drugs they don't need.

I was surprised as the insurance paid for everything even though he had had colic a few years prior because the cause of the gastric impaction was nothing not related to the gassy colic he had years before which was treated by buscapan.

 

[Meredith]

If you don't scope and it is not ulcers you may be delaying treatment for something else and paying for an expensive treatment that is not needed. Why pump a horse full of drugs they don't need.

My vet tried other treatments because the symptoms were very unlike ‘ classic ‘ ulcer symptoms.
When F was scoped he had grade 2 ulcers. He was treated and re scoped. They were nearly healed.
He has been well for nearly a year now.
The first time he was starved at home, travelled and scoped at the clinic.
The second time he was starved and scoped at home.
On neither occasion were there any after effects.
Well, except improvement because after the first scoping he had an injection immediately.
I hope your horse is better soon

 

[SEL]

My friend has just had her cob at hospital for 3 days and she'd never left her herd before - they cope better than we think.

I think scoping lets you know what you're dealing with. Cancer and worm damage both came up when I was in a big livery yard

 

[AntiPuck]

My friend has just had her cob at hospital for 3 days and she'd never left her herd before - they cope better than we think.

Sometimes they do, but sometimes they don't! I'm glad your friend's horse did, though.

Thank you so much for the input, everyone, I will speak to the vets and the insurance again and see what they will and won't allow.

 

[Melody Grey]

Despite taking countless OTTBs and sports horses to the vets, without a doubt the most neurotic has been OH’s cob! They sedated him (sedivet I think?) and we were still able to do a work up etc, so don’t worry, the vets will manage the situation if they’re not coping.

 

[Muddywellies]

I wouldn't treat without scoping. (Ulcer prone horse owner here). Mine had shown her ulcer symptoms before, yet has scoped clear. Other times shown few signs, yet have come up positive with the gastrostope. The cost of Gastroguard is astronomical and I would hate to use it if it wasn't needed.

 

[greenbean10]

I scoped because insurance were paying but if I was paying myself I'd have bought the treatment online which is a fraction of the cost of the vets and monitored improvement

 

[Tiddlypom]

It's really not just the cost of the gastroguard. It's powerful stuff that you don't want to be giving on the off chance to horses that have no clinical need for it.

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

I’ve treated without scoping first and the insurance paid out.
I did clear it with the insurance first though, so it’s worth a try. (Pet Plan).

How did you word this to your insurance? I'm with NFU and want to treat without scoping, if PetPlan paid out I would assume NFU would too as they're usually pretty good!

 

[Stenners]

Personally I would scope so you know what you are dealing with, my mare only a matter of 6 weeks ago was scoped - clear of ulcers but major stomach compaction. She was spooky to ride, stressy, all signs of ulcers really but clear of them.

 

[Lamehorses]

I wouldn't want to feed omeprazole without knowing foregut ulcers were definable present.
You risk upsetting the whole gut biome & if its hindgut ulcers then you will make them worse.
If you are not insured then abler sell omeprazole & suculfrate cheaply

 

[ycbm]

I wouldn't want to feed omeprazole without knowing foregut ulcers were definable present.
You risk upsetting the whole gut biome & if its hindgut ulcers then you will make them worse.
If you are not insured then abler sell omeprazole & suculfrate cheaply

Just to point out that although many people buy it and it is the real thing and works, it is illegal to import Abler ulcer products, they are prescription only.

 

[expanding_horizon]

I scoped because insurance were paying but if I was paying myself I'd have bought the treatment online which is a fraction of the cost of the vets and monitored improvement

Do you mean Abler from overseas which is technically illegal to use in UK?

 

[greenbean10]

Do you mean Abler from overseas which is technically illegal to use in UK?

Yup

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Following.

Mine reacts very badly to sedation, she just fights it all the way down. When I had her scoped for asthma it was really very hard for her, really heartbreaking to watch her little pony self fight the procedure and because she was trying to resist the effects of the sedation it made the whole process very hard for her. I wouldn't do it again, frankly I'd rather shoot her.