Treatment of Racehorses in Training

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Crosshill Pacers

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Have just read a thread on here dating back to 2010 asking for peoples opinions on how Thoroughbred racehorses are treated whilst in training.

Was fascinated to find out that the perception of people who post on here of the above is in stark contrast to the perception of many other people on here when it comes to the treatment of Standardbred racehorses.

So why do you think Thoroughbreds are treated better than Standardbreds? Is it because the world of harness racing isn't as mainstream and widely talked about as gallop racing?

Just interested really, as I am working with a few people in the harness racing world to bring it into the public eye and promote the sport and would be good to hear the views of people as to what they think about it.
 
It's not so much the trainers themselves, but harness racing in general. I have read comments about 'tying the horse's legs together to force them to pace', 'tying their heads up so they cannot move their head and neck' etc and was wondering if it was a general consensus that people thought this way of racing was cruel and that the animals are mistreated?
 
Hi Sarah

There is a general perception that harness racing = road racing - something that I've been trying to break for the last few years!

I'm involved in harness racing too (although we've yet to get to a track this year due to the weather), and have at times been told on here that harness racing is cruel because we run the horses twice in a day every week, that we don't cool off, that the horses are treated as machines, that we tie legs together, that hobbles and hopples are the same thing and do the same job... all sorts of accusations!

I will say though that the folks on here are pretty open, there are a number of people that have SB's as riding horses now and there are a number of threads about retraining.

I think a lot of it is ignorance and lack of education - because its a relatively little known sport and for many people the only side of it they see is the illegal one :(
 
pip6 said:
Personally don't like the tack enough to not watch it.
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What about the tack do you not like Pip? Just an open query as often there's very little difference really between the harness used in this and any other horse driving sport. The elements that are different i.e. the overcheck and the hopples have very good reasons for being there.
 
Hi 'Lanky Loll', whereabouts are you based? Do you race with British Harness or Wales and Borders?

I work for STAGBI and I've posted on several threads about ex-racehorses in their new lives as I'm trying to raise the profile of Standardbreds as riding horses. They've got half their lives ahead of them again once they've finished on the racetrack (if they've been there for years) and I want people entrenched in racing to realise this.

On the the flipside, I see a lot of negative comments about the lives these Standardbreds had before they became riding horses. I am fully aware that there is a certain level of bad practice, but unfortunately that applies to all breeds and all disciplines. Harness racing is really badly advertised by a certain group of people (not all gypsies mistreat their horses, race them until they drop dead or force them to do things they can't/don't want to do - this is a fact, as there are plenty of gypsy families involved in harness racing who treat their horses in exactly the same way as professional trainers). What a lot of people don't realise is that harness racing is a huge sport globally - it's as big as/bigger than gallop racing in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, France, Italy, Holland and Russia. Standardbreds in America have sold in recent sales for over $100,000 and are treated like royalty.

I personally know a family who have recently imported a filly from America for $27,000 (before the shipping costs) and the owner talks about her as if she's the light of his life! I don't think I've ever seen somebody walk a horse around a paddock gazing at it so adoringly in all my life (and he's a 21 year old lad!).
 
SarahThomas said:
Hi 'Lanky Loll', whereabouts are you based? Do you race with British Harness or Wales and Borders?

We're in the South West and race with the BHRC usually in the Hereford / South Wales area with occasional visits to Tregaron

I work for STAGBI and I've posted on several threads about ex-racehorses in their new lives as I'm trying to raise the profile of Standardbreds as riding horses. They've got half their lives ahead of them again once they've finished on the racetrack (if they've been there for years) and I want people entrenched in racing to realise this.

I know Stella Havard has been championing this and has spent a lot of time "lobbying" for SB's to be included in RoR type classes which I think would help! All of our horses that have finished racing have gone on to other lives including doing jobs such private driving, happy hackers, endurance, and dressage.

On the the flipside, I see a lot of negative comments about the lives these Standardbreds had before they became riding horses. I am fully aware that there is a certain level of bad practice, but unfortunately that applies to all breeds and all disciplines. Harness racing is really badly advertised by a certain group of people (not all gypsies mistreat their horses, race them until they drop dead or force them to do things they can't/don't want to do - this is a fact, as there are plenty of gypsy families involved in harness racing who treat their horses in exactly the same way as professional trainers). What a lot of people don't realise is that harness racing is a huge sport globally - it's as big as/bigger than gallop racing in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, France, Italy, Holland and Russia. Standardbreds in America have sold in recent sales for over $100,000 and are treated like royalty.

I personally know a family who have recently imported a filly from America for $27,000 (before the shipping costs) and the owner talks about her as if she's the light of his life! I don't think I've ever seen somebody walk a horse around a paddock gazing at it so adoringly in all my life (and he's a 21 year old lad!).
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As before - a lot of it is ignorance / lack of knowledge, for some people the first they are aware of harness racing is unfortunately the road racing. A few people became more aware following the on course racing at Kempton, Wolverhampton and Hereford, it would be great if we could see more integration with Flat or NH racing. Very few people watch S4C so they don't get to see Rasus - although I think the team there do a great job.
 
pip6 said:
Personally don't like the tack enough to not watch it.
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Pip, perhaps you could expand on that? I'm interested to find out the reasons behind peoples attitudes to harness racing, as if we know what the public perception is then we can challenge it!

Your opinion would be greatly appreciated :)
 
To be honest I have only been exposed to the illegal road racing so I do have a negative view of what I have seen (although agree that not all gypsies mistreat their horses - they're too valuable). Would be curious to see a proper race on a track :-)
 
mandwhy - if you have sky / a.n.other cable provider that allows you to get S4C (was the only reason my parents got sky :rolleyes:) they have a regular programme called Rasus, usually on a Monday night through the summer that shows harness racing.

last weeks programme is here: S4C Clic

Otherwise have a look on the BHRC.org.uk site for fixtures.
 
I have no reason to think that in the UK,the sport of harness racing has to be viewed as anything other than a legitimate sport. OK, I prefer to see horses trot as in a diagonal gait, and any sport without a legitimate Racing Authority [cf BHA and all that], risks allegations of "race fixing" if there is betting involved. I know it occurs as we had a flat racing "flapper" "pulled" by a jockey.
However the whole "legitimisation" means more money, more costs ,so it is no longer a sport for the amateur.
I would like to point out that the flapping, harness racing and betting is legal, just not "controlled" by an authority of impeccable integrity.
 
Miss L Toe said:
I have no reason to think that in the UK,the sport of harness racing has to be viewed as anything other than a legitimate sport. OK, I prefer to see horses trot as in a diagonal gait, and any sport without a legitimate Racing Authority [cf BHA and all that], risks allegations of "race fixing" if there is betting involved. I know it occurs as we had a flat racing "flapper" "pulled" by a jockey.
However the whole "legitimisation" means more money, more costs ,so it is no longer a sport for the amateur.
I would like to point out that the flapping, harness racing and betting is legal, just not "controlled" by an authority of impeccable integrity.
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Miss L Toe... Sarah may dispute the lack of legitimacy with you given that she works for the BHRC... who regulate and control the "under rules" harness racing within the UK in the same way but with much less funding as the BHA.
 
Lanky Loll said:
Miss L Toe... Sarah may dispute the lack of legitimacy with you given that she works for the BHRC... who regulate and control the "under rules" harness racing within the UK in the same way but with much less funding as the BHA.
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OK that is "my perception", in every UK race on licensed tracks, there are numerous rules and regulations, and there are tests and protocols and more and more rules and regulations, all this costs an arm and a leg, and "the man in the street " cannot buy and race" his own horse [which he may have bought off a gippo] [not PC], but one cannot go to any old sales and buy a horse and race it under Jockey Club / BHA rules..
I am sure that the BHRC [who I have never heard of] are all very nice people, but do they have the power to prevent people from earning a living from a sport, even if it is "dodgy"
 
Miss L Toe said:
OK that is "my perception", in every UK race on licensed tracks, there are numerous rules and regulations, and there are tests and protocols and more and more rules and regulations, all this costs an arm and a leg, and "the man in the street " cannot buy and race" his own horse [which he may have bought off a gippo] [not PC], but one cannot go to any old sales and buy a horse and race it under Jockey Club / BHA rules..
I am sure that the BHRC [who I have never heard of] are all very nice people, but do they have the power to prevent people from earning a living from a sport, even if it is "dodgy"
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We have rules and regs, we have drug testing, the drivers and trainers are licensed, the horses are all registered with STAGBI (our version of Wetherby's if you will) and can't race unless they are registered - so you can't just race any old horse.

We run on licensed tracks - some of the lower key meetings are run on grass in an atmosphere closer maybe to a P2P than Cheltenham but that's more to do with the facilities available for our use, the BHRC have also ran meetings at Hereford, Kempton and Wolverhampton racecourses - I don't think the BHA would have allowed that if we weren't regulated in anyway??

And yes they do have the power to prevent people from earning a living at the sport if they break the rules - a hi-profile (within harness racing anyway) trainer was warned off about 18months ago when his horses tested positive for dope.

Your post smacks of the bigotry that the sport is often faced with in the UK.
 
Lanky Loll said:
Your post smacks of the bigotry that the sport is often faced with in the UK.
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I think you are wrong, you are being aggressive [can't spell antagonistic],[shrugs shoulders], I would love to buy and then train flappers, but the BHA don't allow flappers to run under "their rules"
I am not against harness racing, I am just giving "my perception"
 
Miss L Toe said:
I think you are wrong, you are being aggressive [can't spell antagonistic],[shrugs shoulders], I would love to buy and then train flappers, but the BHA don't allow flappers to run under "their rules"
I am not against harness racing, I am just giving "my perception"
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I'm not trying to be aggressive, I'm trying to explain maybe not in a wonderful way. However your bigoted comments about the whereabouts of purchasing horses didn't exactly help your case :rolleyes: Also Brightwells who run the Standardbred sales at Builth and York might have something to say about that.

When we race under BHRC rules - we're not flapping, we're under rules - same as in NH / Flat racing. In a normal racing analogy BHRC = BHA therefore BHRC racing = NH / Flat racing. Flapping run by the Wa;es and Borders team = P2P. We don't have the funding and the publicity that jump and flat racing do so it's all much lower key but the standards are improving all the time. If you want a great example of a fantastic British horse google Laneside Lexus and have a look at what she achieved in Canada over the winter having won pretty much everything there was to win here.

You can race in so called flapping races in the UK - but you can't race in both codes within the same year. And I believe if you race in a flap there is a time period you have to wait out before returning to under rules and vice versa (we've never raced as flappers so have to say I'm not fully clued up on what you have to do to change codes although I do know a few people that have).

Maybe that's made it more clear. If you'd like to look at the rules and regs have a look at the BHRC site in an earlier post. Failing that have a trip to Musselburgh - they have some fantastic racing and I believe it would be the local track to you?
 
Lanky Loll said:
I'm not trying to be aggressive, I'm trying to explain maybe not in a wonderful way. However your bigoted comments about the whereabouts of purchasing horses didn't exactly help your case :rolleyes: Also Brightwells who run the Standardbred sales at Builth and York might have something to say about that.

When we race under BHRC rules - we're not flapping, we're under rules - same as in NH / Flat racing. In a normal racing analogy BHRC = BHA therefore BHRC racing = NH / Flat racing. Flapping run by the Wa;es and Borders team = P2P. We don't have the funding and the publicity that jump and flat racing do so it's all much lower key but the standards are improving all the time. If you want a great example of a fantastic British horse google Laneside Lexus and have a look at what she achieved in Canada over the winter having won pretty much everything there was to win here.

You can race in so called flapping races in the UK - but you can't race in both codes within the same year. And I believe if you race in a flap there is a time period you have to wait out before returning to under rules and vice versa (we've never raced as flappers so have to say I'm not fully clued up on what you have to do to change codes although I do know a few people that have).

Maybe that's made it more clear. If you'd like to look at the rules and regs have a look at the BHRC site in an earlier post. Failing that have a trip to Musselburgh - they have some fantastic racing and I believe it would be the local track to you?
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Are you saying M/burgh has harness racing, unfortunately it is a two hour journey, when I worked in Wales {R. Lee], there were lots of harness racing trainers, and we used to send our best jockeys to ride them in summer.
I am more interested in training than any other aspect of horse racing.
Ayr is the local track, I am not really interested in racing unless it is training, I used to take horses racing when I was a stable lad, that was after my training career oh sorry, I also used to hack the "starters horse" [1958] before Land Rovers.
 
Yes there is harness racing at Musselburgh. Unfortunately not at Ayr - I was simply trying to point you in the direction of where the nearest track to you might be should you wish to actually go and watch some.

I did not realise you are only interested in training.
 
mandwhy said:
To be honest I have only been exposed to the illegal road racing so I do have a negative view of what I have seen (although agree that not all gypsies mistreat their horses - they're too valuable). Would be curious to see a proper race on a track :-)
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This tends to be the common misconception, I dont do harness racing atall but know of people who do. Not the illegal road racing, and not gypsies. Normal, respectable people with good jobs who love the sport and thier horses. Also people tend to this that they are all 'pacers' cant trot or canter. This is not true either some are 'trotters' and most have the most gorg canter too. Standardbreds are lovley, I actually dont see much of a difference between them and tbs. Ex trotters make fab riding horses too ;)
 
no idea about harness racing but I have worked for a local racehorse trainer. The horses were not treated as pets as such but were handled well and with respect. Had anyone been caught hitting - beyond a minimal correction for safety in a dangerous situation, but excessively hitting, they would have been escorted off site permenantly. They had turn out when suitable and all seemed quite happy.

I did get offered one of the horses who was not happy in 'the life' and he is now my big project and will be with me always. A fantastic trainer who has the interests of his horses at heart always, I would really hope that this is the norm in the industry and that the exceptions to the norm are the ones who give the industry the bad name.
 
Unfortunately the main theme in this thread is what I had expected. I wish I'd had the facilities/initiative to film the organisation and running of our local harness racing meeting last night to show everybody how serious a sport harness racing is. We actually had one trainer drive all the way down from York with one horse and the owner in the passenger seat to support the meeting. The dedication of the owners, trainers, drivers, grooms and stewards is truly awesome.

With regard the rules and regs of harness racing, we may not be on the same level as the BHA (even those within the sport may question the integrity of the BHRC at times, myself included), but I can assure you that STAGBI is run to the same level as Wetherbys. All Standardbreds, including coloured Standardbreds, are DNA-tested and parentally verified before they are issued with a full Standardbred passport. Each racehorse must be correctly flu-jabbed before they can race; owners, trainers and drivers must apply for and be granted the correct licences from the BHRC, horses must pay a race fee at the start of the season (this applies also in the Wales and Border Counties division also).

If harness racing was more widely available, i.e. held at NH tracks that people were familiar with, would this perhaps encourage a few more of you to go along and watch?

Also, knowing that the people who participate in harness racing are chemists, solicitors, accountants, vets, farmers, highways inspectors, a member of the House of Lords, families etc, does your opinion of the sport change? Or does it, looking in from the outside, still appear cruel? Would knowing what all the bits of harness do, and all the tricks explained, change your opinions?
 
I'm simply trying to gather peoples opinions in order to contact the chairman of the BHRC and try to come up with ways to make the sport more 'public-friendly'. I am not making assumptions, my comments are based on actual feedback that I and others have received.

With regard the comments on cruelty, as I mentioned in my original post, I have posted on several threads about ex-racehorses, as my current drive is to highlight the versatility of Standardbreds and their careers after racing as riding horses. It is in the responses to my requests for information that I have received negative feedback about the sport.

I appreciate your comments and opinions, they have been useful in my trying to understand how other people feel.
 
I want to know what peoples understanding is of the treatment of Standardbreds who race, as having trawled through several threads over four or five years on here, there seems to be a stark difference in the opinions of those about Thoroughbred racing and Standardbred racing.

I wanted to find out if this was really a general consensus or the opinion of a few.

Like I said, I appreciate your opinion on the matter which you did post earlier, but from what I can see now all you are doing is trying to shoot me down from asking for peoples help.

Do you have anything further to add or are you just going to be negative about what I have to write?
 
mandwhy said:
To be honest I have only been exposed to the illegal road racing so I do have a negative view of what I have seen (although agree that not all gypsies mistreat their horses - they're too valuable). Would be curious to see a proper race on a track :-)
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Curiosity is our greatest ally! Keep an eye out for racing near you, otherwise as Lanky Loll has suggested, perhaps you could take a look at the S4C website, as they show 'Rasus' (much like the BBC have iplayer etc). Granted, it's all in Welsh, but my father and brother don't speak Welsh and they love watching it just for the racing!

Even if it's not your cup of tea once you've had a taste, at least you've given it a chance. I am mad about NH racing, but can't really take an interest in flat racing. I've never been to a polo match, I can't imagine it's my thing but one of these days I'm gonna have to go along just so I can know for sure!
 
Sherbie said:
This tends to be the common misconception, I dont do harness racing atall but know of people who do. Not the illegal road racing, and not gypsies. Normal, respectable people with good jobs who love the sport and thier horses. Also people tend to this that they are all 'pacers' cant trot or canter. This is not true either some are 'trotters' and most have the most gorg canter too. Standardbreds are lovley, I actually dont see much of a difference between them and tbs. Ex trotters make fab riding horses too ;)
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Sherbie, have you seen any of my posts about ex-racehorses now being used as riding horses? I'm writing an article for the STAGBI newsletter in order to raise awareness amongst owners and breeders that their racehorses can have a life after racing, perhaps if you were interested you could send me a message?
 
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