Treeless saddle sizing

[Taishi]

Hey there, I have a question about treeless saddles; since I can't seem to find any lower in size than 16" and checked a size reference on a website for a particular brand am I right to assume that the seating is not t he same as the skirt? ie apparently the 16" is actually seated at 15" ? I need to know as I am considering one for my pony and she is currently using a 15" saddle as 16" was barely ideal and anything above that is a no-go for her.

 

[Bertolie]

Treeless saddles don't go by conventional inches, but by riders dress size. You need to look at saddles that fit 'you' not go by how many inches your horse needs in treed saddles.

 

[Taishi]

ok well being only around 32" (possible 33") waist I fit in the minimal saddle anyway. However, I was also told that where the horse can carry weight is on the 9th to the 14th vertebrae and therefore a saddle that allows a rider to sit beyond this point is too long, especially for mares as it can damage their reproductive system. This is why I said I can't sit any further back than 16" and ideally 15" is preferred. However, I keep finding the smallest treeless is 16" and nothing less but I also read that the seating is less than the overall saddle size? How is a treeless measured? it is still measured the same as a standard saddle, front to back of the centre of the seat?

 

[Sukistokes2]

There is a 16" version of the HM treeless saddle. The older version not the newest one, which only goes down to 17". This version is rare but I got it off eBay and I did see one advertised on the EE site. I have heard rumours of a 15" but have never seen one for sale. They are measured from pommel to cantle, not by your dress size. My lad is very short coupled and he has been going well in the 16" . If you contact them you can have a chat with Heather Moffett about sizing. Or contact you local fitter, you find them on the web site.

 

[Under-the-radar]

OP could you confirm what make of treeless saddle you are looking at? Different makes of treeless have very different ways of measuring.

Susistokes is correct that the HM Vogue is only available in 17" or 18". However, the HM Flexee is available in 15", 16", 17" and 18". The HM saddles are sized more closely to the way a treed saddle is, in comparison to other makes.

The barefoot style saddles are sized for the rider, not the horse. If you go to the manufacturers website, you should be able to find sizing information which relates to that exact saddle.

 

[Speedyfluff]

Treeless saddles can be longer than conventional saddles because they don't have a fixed tree. Conventional saddles will spread the load all the way back to the furthest point of contact of the panels. Treeless do not. What is important is where the weight of the rider is concentrated, and having adequate padding.

 

[Taishi]

OP could you confirm what make of treeless saddle you are looking at? Different makes of treeless have very different ways of measuring.

Susistokes is correct that the HM Vogue is only available in 17" or 18". However, the HM Flexee is available in 15", 16", 17" and 18". The HM saddles are sized more closely to the way a treed saddle is, in comparison to other makes.

The barefoot style saddles are sized for the rider, not the horse. If you go to the manufacturers website, you should be able to find sizing information which relates to that exact saddle.

I was mainly looking at a Freemax as they're more affordable and I kind of like the design. I did check a couple of others such as EasyTrek and even Barefoot and could not find anything that was 15"

 

[Taishi]

Hmm, for some reason I couldn't find the "edit" button.. oh well. Just wanted to be clear that I'm only 5ft 6 and I weigh around 10-11 stone, quite often around 10.5 stone. So I'm not really overweight and I'm certainly not big, I don't think this would be too much trouble for me.

 

[LHIS]

Solution do some small ones, size 3 would probably suit you (and is what I ride in and I'm similar size & weight to you). Not cheap though, but available second hand for less.

 

[Taishi]

Solution do some small ones, size 3 would probably suit you (and is what I ride in and I'm similar size & weight to you). Not cheap though, but available second hand for less.

erm, what exactly is "size 3" ? and what do ya mean by do some small ones? I'm confused as to what you're actually talking about..

 

[LHIS]

Solution is a treeless saddle brand, they offer various sizes which are based on rider weight. Their saddles in size 3 might be suitable for you. I suggest maybe have a look on their website?

 

[Taishi]

Solution is a treeless saddle brand, they offer various sizes which are based on rider weight. Their saddles in size 3 might be suitable for you. I suggest maybe have a look on their website?

Yeah.. no way in hell would I be able to afford that and I wasn't asking for brand recommendation anyway.

 

[LHIS]

Fair enough, just trying to be helpful!

 

[webble]

She was only trying to help!

Yeah.. no way in hell would I be able to afford that and I wasn't asking for brand recommendation anyway.

 

[julie111]

Yeah.. no way in hell would I be able to afford that and I wasn't asking for brand recommendation anyway.

Manners!!

 

[Taishi]

Manners!!

Whatever, I frankly get tired of this kind of crap happening in this forum! I asked for advice about fitting NOT for personal recommended not to mention stupidly expensive brands and I get tired of stressing this to people on here! Don't make me have to say it again. Now would someone please give me some pointers about fitting, are treeless measured different or not? Why is it that I can't find 15" or do they simply not make them? Feel free to link me to some that are only if they are but please don't give me your personal recommendations for ones that are way too much money for the average person. We may have horses but we don't grow money on trees.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

OP I think the simple answer is that Treeless saddles are NOT measured the same as Treed saddles. Which doesn't exactly make it easy to get one that will fit both you and the horse.

If you are looking for a 15", you may find that one of the treeless brands catering for children's or "pup" sizes may be your best bet?

I'm sure that when I was looking, Barefoot did a size 0, which may be equivalent to roughly a size 15"??? The one I saw was on e-bay, they do come up from time to time, so may be worth looking on there and then you could contact the seller and ask them to send you exact measurements - most sellers are happy to do this.

Not that I'm recommending Barefoot!! just saying that I'm sure they do a smaller size/children's size treeless saddle.

Hope this helps.

 

[webble]

Wow that's incredibly rude and not going to encourage people to help you. A second hand solution is around £800 so not silly money at all for a quality saddle

 

[Taishi]

OP I think the simple answer is that Treeless saddles are NOT measured the same as Treed saddles. Which doesn't exactly make it easy to get one that will fit both you and the horse.

If you are looking for a 15", you may find that one of the treeless brands catering for children's or "pup" sizes may be your best bet?

I'm sure that when I was looking, Barefoot did a size 0, which may be equivalent to roughly a size 15"??? The one I saw was on e-bay, they do come up from time to time, so may be worth looking on there and then you could contact the seller and ask them to send you exact measurements - most sellers are happy to do this.

Not that I'm recommending Barefoot!! just saying that I'm sure they do a smaller size/children's size treeless saddle.

Hope this helps.

Oh ok cool, thanks for replying, tbh I found this more helpful. However I did find this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Synthetic...atching-Girth-stirupps-leather-/201407931139? claims to have 15" but its an known brand? anyone give me any insight on this? Has anyone had one or seen one of these before? I also wish to know how they measure and how does one measure up for one and please don't suggest getting a saddler as that just costs more money, surely there's a way to do it? Infact imo getting a saddler is just pointlessly expensive enough as I already know how to draw out a measurement and compare it to saddles without one but that of course is for treed, I wish to know how to measure up for treeless.

Wow that's incredibly rude and not going to encourage people to help you. A second hand solution is around £800 so not silly money at all for a quality saddle

Glad you can afford that amount but for most of us thats our monthly wage and rent costs!

 

[YorksG]

OP you are contradicting yourself, you don't want recomendations, but then want to have brand recoemdations.
Never mind how rude you have been!

 

[Leo Walker]

Oh ok cool, thanks for replying, tbh I found this more helpful. However I did find this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Synthetic...atching-Girth-stirupps-leather-/201407931139? claims to have 15" but its an known brand? anyone give me any insight on this? Has anyone had one or seen one of these before? I also wish to know how they measure and how does one measure up for one and please don't suggest getting a saddler as that just costs more money, surely there's a way to do it? Infact imo getting a saddler is just pointlessly expensive enough as I already know how to draw out a measurement and compare it to saddles without one but that of course is for treed, I wish to know how to measure up for treeless.



Glad you can afford that amount but for most of us thats our monthly wage and rent costs!

Umm, a £49.99 saddle isnt going to be any good! A decent, straight saddle cant be made and then sold for £49.99. Horses sadly ARE expensive! Mine costs me around 1/4 of my income and thats only on assisted DIY, and definitely doesnt cover new saddles etc. In fact my last saddle fitting appointment was £50.

I'm very tight and hate spending money unless its on crap I dont really need, but I do accept that having a horse is a big financial drain and I suck it up. Mine has a quite expensive saddle, it was £1350 new. I got it very cheaply in a closing down sale, and its probably cost me another couple of hundred quid in flocking etc while it settles and back treatment after an idiot saddler flocked it wrongly! Its been worth its weight in gold though! His other saddles did technically fit, but according to my little cob they didnt fit well enough. The difference now he has a good quality saddle is amazing

If you cant afford a decent second hand saddle then hang fire until you can. If you put a £49.99 saddle on your horse, no good is ever going to come of that! I think the Solution saddles go for about £500 second hand, so pretty reasonable A decent second hand synthetic would be about £250/300 including fitting. However if you are 100% certain about going down the treeless route, then wait until you have saved up the money for a decent one second hand, rather than knackering your horse with a £49.99 one!

 

[bluedanube]

£49.99 and £20 p&p from India, I always wondered what sort of numpty would buy that type of product...

 

[LHIS]

Agreed. A £50 saddle will cost you in the long run with chiropractors costs to fix your poor horses back.
Unfortunately for you OP horses are expensive, and though you can save money here and there a saddle should not be the thing you scrimp on.

And for the record, I didn't have the money for my solution saddle waiting on my money tree for me, I saved up! Solution let you try before you buy too and loan you a saddle whilst you work out if it fits and is right for your horse and offer payment plans over 12 months, and they'll even fit it for you. £800 ish well spent I reckon!!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Echoing the advice above re. "cheap" saddles from India. Can remember viewing a video somewhere (possibly on here?) re. a treeless saddle which was "made in India" and basically was stuffed full of wooden blocks and god-knows what else. Yes you can get them very cheaply, yes they may be tempting, but as others have said, not only are you liable to end up paying out far more for vet/chiro fees for your horse's back, you are also liable to put yourself in danger too with this sort of saddle.

This is just a suggestion OP, and I am aware that your budget is tight. I've been in that position, and so can empathise how difficult it is and how you have to prioritise your money, but may I suggest that while you are in the phase of thinking about treeless, it would be a sensible choice, and good economy as well, to trial one or two and see how you feel about going treeless as it in no way is the same as sitting on a treed saddle and you may find after all that you/your horse, doesn't like it! It does take about a week to get used to properly as your core muscles have to re-adjust. The first time I sat on a treeless saddle it was a Heather Moffatt one, and I could hardly walk for a few days afterwards! But now I ride treeless out of choice.

Go onto the "Better Saddles" website as there are a few companies on there who offer the trial service. When I did this, it was an Exmoor Tree Free saddle, and cost £50 for a week. Yes I know that may sound a lot??, BUT IME it is VITAL to try a few treeless saddles before you buy, and you don't want to get one and then find out that treeless just doesn't suit you. Alternatively you could put up an advert on FB or similar social media, and ask if anyone in your area has the saddle size you want and please could you try it?? I've offered this service out of the goodness of my heart with my own lovely treeless saddle to people like friends-of-friends and people I know, as I am very aware of how important it is to try first before making a financial commitment. Dunno whereabouts you are in the country OP? I'm in Devon nr Exeter and if you were from this area I'd suggest you pop round.........

Following up on what others have said here, you'd be far better saving up and going for a saddle which is a good make but which you may be lucky to pick up on e-bay or Preloved etc which is cheaper simply because it has seen better days and is a bit tatty, like Barefoot, Torsion, Tree Free, etc., rather than get some brand new cut-price piece of plastic made by people who've never even seen a horse, which will cost you dear in the long run and may damage your horse permanently. It just isn't worth it.

 

[madlady]

OP I have a treeless saddle, (barefoot), it is sized for me I use it on all 3 of my horses.

On one of them it is longer than I would have if using a treed saddle as he is very compact but as treeless don't distribute the weight in the same way that a treed saddle does it doesn't matter.

Provided that the rider is positioned in the correct place then it doesn't cause a problem if the saddle itself (including skirt) is past where a treed saddle would come to as it doesn't cause the same issues.

The actual seat on mine is probably 16" but including the skirt it is nearer 19". I can't say I've seen any much smaller than that apart from for children.

 

[ester]

The whole point OP is that different treeless brands measure their saddles differently hence the need to mention brands when discussing.

DO NOT buy a £50 saddle from ebay, it will probably not be symmetrical, injure your horse and potentially be a safety risk from the inferior quality materials.

 

[Taishi]

Echoing the advice above re. "cheap" saddles from India. Can remember viewing a video somewhere (possibly on here?) re. a treeless saddle which was "made in India" and basically was stuffed full of wooden blocks and god-knows what else. Yes you can get them very cheaply, yes they may be tempting, but as others have said, not only are you liable to end up paying out far more for vet/chiro fees for your horse's back, you are also liable to put yourself in danger too with this sort of saddle.

This is just a suggestion OP, and I am aware that your budget is tight. I've been in that position, and so can empathise how difficult it is and how you have to prioritise your money, but may I suggest that while you are in the phase of thinking about treeless, it would be a sensible choice, and good economy as well, to trial one or two and see how you feel about going treeless as it in no way is the same as sitting on a treed saddle and you may find after all that you/your horse, doesn't like it! It does take about a week to get used to properly as your core muscles have to re-adjust. The first time I sat on a treeless saddle it was a Heather Moffatt one, and I could hardly walk for a few days afterwards! But now I ride treeless out of choice.

Go onto the "Better Saddles" website as there are a few companies on there who offer the trial service. When I did this, it was an Exmoor Tree Free saddle, and cost £50 for a week. Yes I know that may sound a lot??, BUT IME it is VITAL to try a few treeless saddles before you buy, and you don't want to get one and then find out that treeless just doesn't suit you. Alternatively you could put up an advert on FB or similar social media, and ask if anyone in your area has the saddle size you want and please could you try it?? I've offered this service out of the goodness of my heart with my own lovely treeless saddle to people like friends-of-friends and people I know, as I am very aware of how important it is to try first before making a financial commitment. Dunno whereabouts you are in the country OP? I'm in Devon nr Exeter and if you were from this area I'd suggest you pop round.........

Following up on what others have said here, you'd be far better saving up and going for a saddle which is a good make but which you may be lucky to pick up on e-bay or Preloved etc which is cheaper simply because it has seen better days and is a bit tatty, like Barefoot, Torsion, Tree Free, etc., rather than get some brand new cut-price piece of plastic made by people who've never even seen a horse, which will cost you dear in the long run and may damage your horse permanently. It just isn't worth it.

Thanks for your reply, this is certainly food for thought. Sorry for getting all snappy but honestly I get tired of this sort of thing on here, its the same with rugs and treed saddles and tbh my pony has been just fine wi th £20-£30 coats, bargins off Derby House that no one seems to like on here and a Hi Lite that EVERYONE uses in my area and was recommended to me by a saddler and yet again no one likes it on here! There's a well known fact that not everything works for every horse and some things aren't so bad if you got the horse that can cope with it. My pony is very flat back, wide and low withers, she's native and can cope with the harshest of weather. Its irony really, at first I was regretting buying her as she was very unwell, underweight and above all would not let me touch her at all, she wasn't like that when I bought her and I bought her mostly out of pity. However now I could not trade her for the world, I don't care how much people offer me, she's my baby! I don't mean to seem tight and I understand you get what you pay for but I really hate those who act too stuck up about products just because its cheap and cheerful rather than stupidly expensive.

 

[ester]

Nothing wrong with cheap and cheerful as long as it isn't dangerous, damaging or a false economy.

 

[Under-the-radar]

In all honesty it sounds like you are very new to treeless saddles. I would take a look at some of the companies who offer a trial period with their treeless saddles. I know you said earlier you like the look of the freemax saddles, but this doesn't mean that it will fit or suit your horse. Just because they are treeless, does not mean they will fit everything and anything.

If you have a look at the "Better Saddles" website, they do trials on quite a range of treeless saddles. It really is worth taking the time to try a few and see what is going to best suit you and your horse before you jump into buying anything. Once you know what you are looking for, then you can look at second hand. There are plenty of good quality second hand saddles out there, which will do the job you want.

Please do not buy a £50 as new treeless saddle! There are good treeless and there are bad treeless - don't let your horse be the one to find out which are the bad. Searching for reviews on any make you are interested in is also useful - although be warned, especially on HHO there is always someone who doesn't like a particular product / brand and will be fairly vocal about it !!

Good luck with your search

 

[Taishi]

In all honesty it sounds like you are very new to treeless saddles. I would take a look at some of the companies who offer a trial period with their treeless saddles. I know you said earlier you like the look of the freemax saddles, but this doesn't mean that it will fit or suit your horse. Just because they are treeless, does not mean they will fit everything and anything.

If you have a look at the "Better Saddles" website, they do trials on quite a range of treeless saddles. It really is worth taking the time to try a few and see what is going to best suit you and your horse before you jump into buying anything. Once you know what you are looking for, then you can look at second hand. There are plenty of good quality second hand saddles out there, which will do the job you want.

Please do not buy a £50 as new treeless saddle! There are good treeless and there are bad treeless - don't let your horse be the one to find out which are the bad. Searching for reviews on any make you are interested in is also useful - although be warned, especially on HHO there is always someone who doesn't like a particular product / brand and will be fairly vocal about it !!

Good luck with your search

tbh I find more critiques saying "don't buy" who clearly never owned one than people reviewing who actually have. I find the same with stuff such as rugs, I have a rug that has lasted me 3 years now and it was only £25! it wasn't even on offer, it was just a cheap rug, no special brand or anything. Granted its got a tear in it but it is easily repaired and no where near as bad as some rugs I've seen get so easily torn up and cost alot more! This is exactly why I grow tired of people's opinions on this community as all they seem to want to do is push expensive "top of the line" brands in your face rather than help you understand what it is you are looking for to suit your animal's needs. Its like the kids back in school beating up those less fortunate because they don't have "top of the line" brands! Yeah, I used to be one of them and I still am one of those who refuses to buy these over priced so called better brands because in reality they're not! Hell did you know Nike get theirs done by Asians for cheap?! That is a fact! Heck I've even combats that matched my friend's ex's only difference is hers had a Nike tick at the bottom left of the ankle area, she paid £60, I paid £10, you do the math, same quality, mine has lasted more than 5-8 years and still wearable! no rips no tears!