Treeless saddle thoughts

[AutumnDays]

I know this type of thread has been done to death, but I am chasing my tail with indecision here and need a perspective putting on my train of thought if you guys would be so kind...

At the moment, me and my two are non ridden for various reasons. Lots of in hand walking, medical and physio checks (for us all!), and it's looking like in the not too distant future, we could be light hackers. Which would be great, because I could pony one off the other, instead of trying to keep up with the two of them on the floor as they get fitter!

I was pondering about getting a treeless saddle, as they are both different shapes, will change shape, and aren't realistically going to be ridden a lot to warrant treed saddles for each (plus riding in a treed saddle has been painful for me for a while, bareback was a lot more comfortable for me and my lower spine/hip/Nerve damage issues). I've seen a nice looking Barefoot Cheyenne for sale, but there seems to be a few of these about (and the London model)... Does that tell me something? I've been told stay away from EasyTrek, didn't get on with a Christ Lamfelle pad (slippy) and am toying with a Total Contact Saddle... Any wisdom to impart or other considerations I should look at? Or should I just give up the plodding about idea and continue with in hand for evermore (which is what my husband would prefer me to do)?

All thoughts and opinions much appreciated, as I am making myself dizzy going round in circles and talking myself in/out of things

 

[Landcruiser]

I had a Cheyenne years ago. They are lovely quality but I found it tipped me forward somehow, the stirrup placement didn't suit me. I believe they have adjusted this now. I have an ancient Copper Beech treeless that came with my horse 14 yrs ago - I plan to back my youngster with it, because it was always pretty comfortable for me and my roly poly horse, whatever shape he was. There are plenty of them around on ebay etc very cheap.

 

[tda]

I got a 2nd hand christ pad, and it has been spot on for 2 different shaped ponies, until this morning when it slipped a bit as I clambered on (from a huge mounting block) nothing dangerous just an ooooer moment
Just thinking of putting a non slip thin pad underneath

 

[Highmileagecob]

I rode the old cob miles and miles in a Barefoot Cheyenne. It was one of the leather originals, from before the company was sold. Whichever brand you plump for, the saddle pads and profiles are important, and need to be right to balance the saddle and protect the horse's spine. Good luck, I hope you can find something that works for you.

 

[nagblagger]

I love my copper beech..it's comfortable on my cob and I feel safe. However it can make a wide cob wider so if you have hip problems its not ideal. I have put a slight riser in it. My riding style and posture are not the best though, I'm just onboard to enjoy it without causing discomfort to the moody mare.

 

[Unicorn]

One of my friends has a TCS. She does all sorts in it and absolutely loves it. She's incredibly secure and stable in it too.

The first time I tried it I lasted about 10 strides! She persuaded me to try it again and I loved it! And so did horse. One of the nicest things I've ever ridden in. If I still had a horse I'd be looking at getting one.

 

[SEL]

I got appalling back ache with the TCS (borrowed fortunately) and by day 2 the microcob was telling me to get lost when I approached with it.

 

[planete]

Unless you are very lucky, you need to shim treeless saddles to make sure the seat is balanced for the rider. Also beware the models with a channel for the spine. Is the channel the right width and shape for your horse? Check how heavy a rider the saddle will take while still distributing pressure adequately. Are the stirrup bars insulated well enough from the horse's back? Do they spread the load along the horse's back or are they just a strap going over the spine?and be prepared to spend nearly as much on a good treeless saddle pad as you did on the saddle. If you find the twist too wide you can often fit a hip saver between the frame and the seat. Some firms will let you trial saddles which is ideal as not all treeless saddles fit all horses or riders. I personally use a breastplate and a crupper as insurance even though they have never been needed so far.

 

[AutumnDays]

Thank you all so much for your replies; a lot of food for thought. Realistically, we are all a few months off that stage, and even then there's no guarantee it'd be a long lasting thing (I'm quite broken, never mind those two!), and if we are managing in hand for that long, then what's the rest of our lives?! But you have all given some valued feedback here, I think I may have to accept that my riding days are over early 30's and just continue our journey side by side instead of on board

 

[ElvisandTilly]

I used to have the barefoot London but it was so wide it hurt my hips and back. I needed a saddle with a twist but treeless. Tried a friends Heather Moffett phoenix soft tree saddles and we both loved it! My horse who was asymmetric levelled up in it and whether he was winter or summer weight I could change his saddlepad or shim for fit easily. I bought from eBay. I then upgraded to a new HM vogue saddle and sold my phoenix on eBay for same price I bought it for years earlier. If you can try one before you buy there are HM fitter that will come out to you.

 

[maya2008]

I have ridden in Torsion saddles since 2003. I use the Barefoot pommels if needed to go wider on a round pony, and there is no other adjustment required - just the correct width of pommel and a treeless pad underneath (we like Equitex). No shimming, no faffing around, easy. Unbelievably comfy for hacking too.

They are beyond rubbish to jump in though, so I have had a treed jumping saddle for most of that time, for anything I wanted to jump.

I tried a barefoot Cheyenne once (needed a smaller size than the Torsion saddles go) and wasn’t a great fan. That was a long time ago though.

Have had a Freeform - absolutely amazing if your horse has a flat, not curvy back profile. So comfy for the rider, I was unbelievably sad when it had to go!

I had an awful experience with a very expensive brand, which hadn’t been pressure tested at all before being produced. Lumps and white hair under the stirrup bars due to it not suiting the shape of pony I had. Wouldn’t touch anything by them again!

Easytrek have not so great reviews so haven’t tried.

Thorn pads work well for small kids but slip as they get older so I can imagine they would for an adult.

Christ Lammfelle have some not so great pressure test results (available to view on YouTube and a few treeless websites that have done testing) so I never bought one.

Solution - the multiple shims, need to have it fitted and enormous price tag put me off. If I want to have to check the fit each ride I can use a treed saddle for a fraction of the price!

TCS - my kids now have them because their Thorn pads were slipping and these do not. Ponies prefer them as we had Thorn pads pulling down on the wither also. We have padded carefully as we did with the Thorn, so there is pressure distribution underneath and a good sweat pattern with clear spinal channel. They compete in treed saddles but the ponies change shape with the weather and it was getting ridiculous. I don’t mind checking fit and swapping around saddles as needed before a show, but for everyday use, riding multiple ponies per day per child, this is easier.

 

[Jenko109]

I love my barefoot Cheyenne and find it ever so comfortable. I don't ride well in it though. I mean, I dont ride well in general lol, but I find I'm in a permanent armchair position with a very weak lower leg in my barefoot. I only hack these days though so the sack of spuds look suits me just fine.

 

[Jambarissa]

I have freeform and TCS, and a custom made saddle. TCS wins hands down according to my horse, I've used it exclusively for a year of hacking up to 10 miles at a time and her back is fabulous.

Freeform and cob saddle for sale if anyone's looking

 

[soloequestrian]

I use Heather Moffett Flexees. The older versions dodn't have a solid gullet, you just move the panels at the front to the width you want - they are set on with Velcro. Might suit if you need to swap between two horses. There are also the Vogues, her more expensive range. Me and my horses didn't like the Vogue but a lot of people love them.

 

[Caol Ila]

I got very fecked off with managing treed saddles and ever-changing horse shapes, so started using treeless/leather trees some years ago.

A Sorenta leather tree saddle (given to me for free by a friend) worked well for my sharkfin wither Shire-TBx, but you needed to be confident at flocking the Freeform panels that velcroed onto it yourself. I was, so it was fine.

When I got my Highland after the Shire-TBx died, I found the Sorenta useless. No matter what I did, it wasn't right for him. When I tried him at his previous owner's, I rode him in a Cheyenne. He seemed to like it, but I hated the chair seat and the lack of twist. I could not get my head around the TCS, to be honest, because it looks like someone stuck a surcingle around a bareback pad and added some stirrups. How can the weight distribution possibly work? I tried a Ghost, but felt too perched on him. I tried a TreeFree Tor and it felt right, so I bought one. They will let you have a week's trial. Not cheap, but f*ck it.

When I backed my PRE, I started in a Lamfelle bareback pad, which was fine, but felt that in the long run, she should have a real saddle with better weight distribution (and stirrups!!). I rode her in the Highland's TreeFree Tor, and it seemed to work for her. I used one saddle between the two horses for a little while, but as she started to do more , I felt they should have their own saddles. Someone was selling a TreeFree Exmoor with a 15" seat on ebay for super cheap. I bought it. It fit the Highland better than the Tor did (his back is very short), so he ended up with that, while the PRE got the Tor. Being a youngster and constantly changing, I've had to ditch the TreeFree pad and buy a fluffy -- and expensive -- Christ Lamfelle saddle pad with big pockets for shims, but it works for her and sure beats paying a saddler to reflock a Thorowgood every three months. Lamfelle pad + Tor seems to be a winning combination.

The TreeFree saddles don't put you into a horrible chair seat, the horses seem to like them so long as you can adjust them correctly, and they have a better twist than other treeless saddles. I once tried a Barefoot London on my old horse, and it was one of the most uncomfortable saddles I have ever ridden in. Followed closely by my friend's Edix western saddle. You feel like your legs are being pulled apart. But you can (and I have) ride in a TreeFree saddle all day.

 

[greasedweasel]

Interested to read some of these replies as in the same position with a fat new forest. There is currently a HM Phoenix on eBay which a friend that has had several says is a good buy but reviews on them are very mixed and I've never sat on one.

A friend is using TCS on two horses I bred, hunting and 60km rides, these horses are both now well in their teens and I have never seen them look better muscled. She loves them and a few other endurance folk are fans of the TCS but I don't imagine I'd feel confident in one... I like knee rolls!

 

[planete]

Interested to read some of these replies as in the same position with a fat new forest. There is currently a HM Phoenix on eBay which a friend that has had several says is a good buy but reviews on them are very mixed and I've never sat on one.

A friend is using TCS on two horses I bred, hunting and 60km rides, these horses are both now well in their teens and I have never seen them look better muscled. She loves them and a few other endurance folk are fans of the TCS but I don't imagine I'd feel confident in one... I like knee rolls!

if you want knee rolls you can buy western style fenders with knee rolls I believe. No idea how well they work though.

 

[AutumnDays]

Ooh just seen a Barefoot Arizona for sale which looks rather cool... Kinda like the idea of a western type saddle... I'm making it worse for myself now

 

[maya2008]

Interested to read some of these replies as in the same position with a fat new forest. There is currently a HM Phoenix on eBay which a friend that has had several says is a good buy but reviews on them are very mixed and I've never sat on one.

That was exactly the shape of pony I had trouble with. Stirrups bars too high so they pulled down directly on pony’s flat back and all the weight of the rider went through those two spots. Many treeless saddles (TCS being one) have them set slightly lower to make sure they are past the flat part of the back and pulling down the side, making sure the pressure is on the whole of the top of the saddle rather than directly through the bars and onto the back). It’s not so much a concern on an A framed shape horse, but very much on a flat backed one.

 

[Ashleigh02]

I have a solution saddle for my boy. I couldnt find anything treed that would put me and him in the most comfortable position. Ive had it a week now and its the best decision i ever made.
The only downside to it is how long it took me to save up. Ollie is 15h narrow top but chunky shoulders and has a size 4 native with rear shims and he has never moved better. They are well worth their money

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Ideally you need to "try before you buy" with a treeless saddle. If you look on the Better Saddles website you'll see a list of companies that offer this service.

I have tried a few of the Barefoot range: namely Cheyenne, Cherokee, London, and the Lexington. Their saddles are lovely - and I had a fairly narrow Welsh D mare who'd done Endurance in the Cherokee - but for wider chubby cobs you can forget it! They just won't fit, they will tilt you forward & slip around on the horse, and you'll be put incredibly wide and will not be comfortable.

I've tried the Torsion; that really didn't give me enough back support - also put me wide on my coblet. And it also gave her a sore back so that was a no-no.

Did have a lovely TreeFree Tor Saddle & the Exmoor which is another in their range (Viking Saddlery). These saddles are skillfully handmade in Devon, my home county, by Johan and Andrea who are Master Saddlers (now Royal Warrant as they repair a lot of side-saddles for the Royal Mews). Lovely saddles, and the after-sales back-up was great, but sadly the Tor just didn't fit my pony. I would recommend any of the saddles in their range however especially the Tor which has a really narrow twist and is the most comfortable treeless saddle I've ever ridden in. Was sorry to say goodbye to mine.........

Am currently in the Total Contact Saddle. There IS a FB page which is a good place to "lurk" if you are interested in them. It is a bit of a leap of faith; that said you can trial their saddles for around £150 I think it is. Well worth doing. If not going for the new TCS seat they've recently brought out then the addition of a rear-riser (I used the Acavello gel rear-riser) is a game-changer and solved the problem of my feeling that I was tipping back all the time. I have regular physio checks for mine and currently all is well. I am comfortable, and none of the hip/lower back pain I've always struggled with in practically EVERY saddle I've had up till now. You get a feeling of really being close to the horse. I'm thinking of upgrading my TCS to their new Premium one; says it all I think!

 

[AutumnDays]

Ideally you need to "try before you buy" with a treeless saddle. If you look on the Better Saddles website you'll see a list of companies that offer this service.

I have tried a few of the Barefoot range: namely Cheyenne, Cherokee, London, and the Lexington. Their saddles are lovely - and I had a fairly narrow Welsh D mare who'd done Endurance in the Cherokee - but for wider chubby cobs you can forget it! They just won't fit, they will tilt you forward & slip around on the horse, and you'll be put incredibly wide and will not be comfortable.

I've tried the Torsion; that really didn't give me enough back support - also put me wide on my coblet. And it also gave her a sore back so that was a no-no.

Did have a lovely TreeFree Tor Saddle & the Exmoor which is another in their range (Viking Saddlery). These saddles are skillfully handmade in Devon, my home county, by Johan and Andrea who are Master Saddlers (now Royal Warrant as they repair a lot of side-saddles for the Royal Mews). Lovely saddles, and the after-sales back-up was great, but sadly the Tor just didn't fit my pony. I would recommend any of the saddles in their range however especially the Tor which has a really narrow twist and is the most comfortable treeless saddle I've ever ridden in. Was sorry to say goodbye to mine.........

Am currently in the Total Contact Saddle. There IS a FB page which is a good place to "lurk" if you are interested in them. It is a bit of a leap of faith; that said you can trial their saddles for around £150 I think it is. Well worth doing. If not going for the new TCS seat they've recently brought out then the addition of a rear-riser (I used the Acavello gel rear-riser) is a game-changer and solved the problem of my feeling that I was tipping back all the time. I have regular physio checks for mine and currently all is well. I am comfortable, and none of the hip/lower back pain I've always struggled with in practically EVERY saddle I've had up till now. You get a feeling of really being close to the horse. I'm thinking of upgrading my TCS to their new Premium one; says it all I think!

I have been toying with the TCS idea for a while, as I used to ride bareback a lot and like the idea of it being easily customisable for the two. I rode away my Arab x Appaloosa in a half treed CL pad, but found it too slippy on her, and new lad is a Sec D x WB so has a bit of wither... I think you may have swayed me to take the plunge

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I looked at the TCS for ages but didn’t go for it till the past month. Mr Cob has been having monthly physio due to soreness in his back, despite having a brand-new saddle and had begun to get a bit girthy.

I didn’t tell my physio but switched to TCS first few rides were strange but actually much prefer it now , much more comfy on my hips and he goes beautifully in it. He had physio back out who said whatever was wrong isn’t anymore and his back was perfect again. He hasn’t really tested me in it stability wise yet , no mega spooks or trying to bugger off.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I have a solution saddle for my boy. I couldnt find anything treed that would put me and him in the most comfortable position. Ive had it a week now and its the best decision i ever made.
The only downside to it is how long it took me to save up. Ollie is 15h narrow top but chunky shoulders and has a size 4 native with rear shims and he has never moved better. They are well worth their money

I used a Solution on my massive shouldered, barrel-bodied Westphalian Kaltblut. She went better in that than anything else from the moment we first tried it and I felt comfortable in it. The shims suited her because she had a certain amount of muscle wastage, which improved with the Solution. I found them a pain because they were prone to slipping until I bought some stick on Velcro.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I have been toying with the TCS idea for a while, as I used to ride bareback a lot and like the idea of it being easily customisable for the two. I rode away my Arab x Appaloosa in a half treed CL pad, but found it too slippy on her, and new lad is a Sec D x WB so has a bit of wither... I think you may have swayed me to take the plunge

^^^ You can trial them. Always good to do this.

 

[AutumnDays]

Thank you everyone, appreciate your responses

 

[Quigleyandme]

I have a Solution Smart Elite Event for my young ID. I bought it ever so slightly second hand from one of their approved fitters in the UK and she threw in a bunch of second hand but in very good order shims and half-wool numnahs. My horse goes very well in it and I find it very comfortable and secure. I tried it with various shimming options and sent photos to the fitter in the UK who made recommendations. There is a very limited culture of saddle fitting in Ireland, especially where I live, and this saddle should do the horse with adjustments to the shimming along the way for his lifetime.

 

[Mouse19]

I know I’ll probably get lynched for saying this but ho hum

I would tread carefully around HM saddles.
They are made in India and there’s not much quality control going on. One of her ex members of staff who was obviously a bit cheesed off with her put something on Facebook about her not really researching the pressure implications of her leather treed design.
I have sat on her treeless models and find them very wide and they are supposed to soften when you warm up but I didn’t find much difference.

 

[ElleSkywalkingintheair]

I have a smart solutions eventer saddle on Fluffles the cob and an older ansur on barrel like tbxwelshxfriesan. Both horses get checked by physio every 3 months and are in great shape. The cost of the smart saddle is alarming, but they hold value well second hand and trials are available. When am back on board again I intend to get a dressage saddle either new or second hand through them too.

Rides like a normal saddle and never had anyone complain it not comfy, and most importantly horses love them both

 

[webble]

I know I’ll probably get lynched for saying this but ho hum

I would tread carefully around HM saddles.
They are made in India and there’s not much quality control going on. One of her ex members of staff who was obviously a bit cheesed off with her put something on Facebook about her not really researching the pressure implications of her leather treed design.
I have sat on her treeless models and find them very wide and they are supposed to soften when you warm up but I didn’t find much difference.

The vogue isn't made in India. The flexee is but Heather has been there and researched the people making them. I've had several and the leather is very good quality, better than the solution