Treeless saddles - good, bad or indifferent?

Doormouse

Doormouse

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I've just been informed, by the person who does my horses back, that he should have a treeless saddle due to an old injury to his wither.

He is a 15.1hh 14 year old tb who ran over fences for 8 years. I've had him for 3 months now but obviously due to the snow have not ridden him that much. He has been wearing my Bates Close Contact with the medium narrow gullet and a riser pad that the saddle fitter gave me. The problem is it seems to catch his shoulder blade without the riser but with the riser it sits down on his back and catches him there instead.

I have never tried a treeless saddle and would love to hear some experiences and opinions on them please. Thank you.
 
I'd get a second opinion, as I don't trust most "back people" as far as I could throw them

If there really is a wither injury, I'd also question the advice as a treeless saddle tends to put more pressure on the withers rather than relieve it

They could be talking about the points of the bates digging it, which you can attack in 2 ways - either change saddles or fit a wider gullet and user a suber pad to build up the muscle.
 
I have to say I fully agree about back people, there are alot of them about and it is hard to know the good ones. I have used this person for many years now and he does seem to make a difference to all the horses I have taken there but we have never gone into the whole saddle thing before.

Interesting that treeless do put more pressure on the withers, I have only ever seen one once so basically have no idea how they fit them etc so wasn't really aware of that.

Sorry to be stupid but what is a suber pad please?
 
Treeless saddles are a bit like marmite - you either love them or hate them and the same goes for your horse. If you do a search on here you will get many different opinions, but the main thing I think is that you should try one (more than once, ideally over a few weeks) before you buy to make sure it works for you and also get it properly fitted.


Either way it sounds like the saddle you have does not fit very well and he might benefit from another saddle whether treeless or not.
 
Treeless saddles do sit a lot closer to the wither than treed ones, when you first see them they look badly fitting in terms of treed saddles because you don't get the 3-4 finger clearance, however this is how they are supposed to sit. Whether that equates to more pressure or more evenly distributed pressure is up for debate.

I have one horse who will only be ridden in his treeless and another who absolutely hates it, so sometimes you just have to go with what your horse is telling you.
 
Booboos said:
Treeless saddles are a bit like marmite - you either love them or hate them and the same goes for your horse.

Either way it sounds like the saddle you have does not fit very well and he might benefit from another saddle whether treeless or not.
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That made me chuckle, I think having seen one I can see what you mean. As you say the current saddle does not fit him but I have tried about 20 different saddles over the last 2 weeks and everything with a tree catches his shoulders. I am also struggling because I am very long from my hip to my knee so I do tend to fall off the front of saddle that are not fairly forward cut. All proving a bit of a nightmare atm and he is being very patient about the whole thing bless him!
 
I can not stand treeless saddles. In fact I have cried when made to ride in one once, it hurt my hips so so badly. The people that I have know that have sworn by them soon go back to a traditional saddle once the treeless has done its job. The one thing to remember about them is you get what you pay for. The cheap ones are awful (workmanship, quality etc etc).

I'd personally get a saddle fitter out with plenty of saddle to try as many as possible that fit properly, the bates doesn't sound like it does at all.


Saddles are a mine field - I know. So good luck.
 
I used to ride in a treeless dressage saddle, it looked completely normal but it cost an absolute fortune! I found it extremely wide through the twist, although very comfortable apart from that. Can't say I noticed any difference between it and the other less-expensive but tree-d made-to measure saddles we had on the yard. The horses didn't go any better/worse, it was just double the price for the treeless!
 
kirstyhen said:
I used to ride in a treeless dressage saddle, it looked completely normal but it cost an absolute fortune! I found it extremely wide through the twist, although very comfortable apart from that. Can't say I noticed any difference between it and the other less-expensive but tree-d made-to measure saddles we had on the yard. The horses didn't go any better/worse, it was just double the price for the treeless!
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It is the price which is upsetting me the most atm to be honest. I obviously want him to be a comfy as possible but finding that sort of money is going to make life pretty tough for a bit.
 
Just a few other thoughts, also being quite long hip to knee and having a mare who is a odd shape (but doesn't look it). I have a albion K2 that seems to fit us both beautifully (picked up second hand really really cheaply). Or what about a working hunter saddle to accomodate your leg.


Back to the treeless saddles though, ultimately what do you want to do with your horse? It maybe something to think about (if you can find a second hand one) to a measure until your horse has been fully in work for a while and built up muscle. I know a few people who have done this and in that respect the treeless has done its job well, but they have all gone back to a tree'd in the long run mostly down to the lack of support in the treeless (especially when to lateral work).
 
Definately marmite! My old instructors yard all suddenly went crazy over a paricular brand of treeless saddle - they all bought them, at about £2k a go! However I would say about 50% are now back in treed, one of whom ended up with a horse off all last summer after some major back problems. The ones who have stuck with them reckon horses never gone better!
Would def try several brands and also several saddlers!
 
Just to add, 'treeless' is a generic term that doesn't quite capture the variety of saddles out there. Some are gulleted, some are not (which seems to make a huge difference to some riders) and different brands use different materials which is bound to make a difference in the saddles ability to distribute the rider's weight.

I have a Total Saddle Solutions one for 3 years now, compete Medium BD on a relatively sharp horse and never had a problem with it, either with my balance/security or with lateral work.
 
Doormouse said:
Sorry to be stupid but what is a suber pad please?
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Not stupid question - they are a very thick bean bag type pad

http://www.davidahnequine.co.uk/

Its basically the only pad that will work where a saddle doesn't fit

To quote from the site "The SUBER Saddle Pad has been tested under the severest conditions imaginable, bordering on the cruel. Men weighing 20 stone (280 pounds) have ridden at the sitting trot for eight hours a day for weeks, with crude wooden saddles, yet the SUBER Pad protected the horse's backs perfectly, the trials were completed without any problems."
 
Booboos said:
I have a Total Saddle Solutions one for 3 years now, compete Medium BD on a relatively sharp horse and never had a problem with it, either with my balance/security or with lateral work.
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Booboos, I think this bit just proves your marmite comment earlier! (if I could work out how to I would put a big cheesy smiley here). Its only the Total saddle soulutions ones I have ridden in, I didn't feel comfortable at all and it was this that made me cry (but I do have a few hip issues, and found the twists just far far to much for me. I can't describe the pain). My YO had them and loved them and they really served a purpose for her, but she found she didn't have the security she needed for lateral work at all, and once they were up to medium went back to a traditional tree'd saddle.
 
There are good treeless saddles and bad - generally the price gives it away in most cases. Some treeless saddles will do more harm than a treed saddle.

The only brands I have had recommended (by physios/vets/saddle fitters) are Torsion, Heather Moffat and Total Solutions (Ansur). The first two I personally find uncomfortable. The last one I have on my gelding.

I had real issues trying to fit a treed saddle to my gelding, which resulted in him putting me on the floor on more than one occasion. He has big shoulders, but a forward girth groove. Having a treed saddle on meant that he ended up getting scar tissue on his ribs from the girth sitting too far back, plus issues with his shoulders due to saddle.

I spent a large amount of money trying different saddles and saddle fitters, none of the conventional saddles worked and I ended up with a treeless (on the recommendation of some experts, including a couple of saddle fitters who ran out of ideas for my lad).

The solutions saddle is very expensive, but has pressure testing results etc and has lots of case studies on their website to back up their claims (you can get them cheaper on ebay but still more expensive than a treed saddle second hand!). You still need to get it fitted to ensure it is working with the horse in the best way. They look more like conventional saddles (most people don't realise mine is treeless unless I tell them). You do feel the horse through it (one step away from being bareback really!) but mine doesn't move even though a full display of acrobatics and I have jumped him in it, done sponsored rides and dressage to elementary (which is as far as we have got, our limits so far not the saddles!).

The issues that were caused by saddles have gone away. It does sit down more across the withers but there aren't any sore points there and of course pressure is more evenly distributed. His shoulders have really freed up (have discovered a medium trot we never thought he had) and the current chiro (who isn't a fan of treeless) can only remark on how well he is at the moment and how good his shoulders and back are.

They don't support the rider, nor do they cover up your mistakes as much as a treed saddle will in my opinion, and they don't look as beautiful as a traditional saddle, but for a happy healthy fit boy who isn't trying to bury me in the arena its worth it.

However, not all horses like them - as with anything, try it and see if it suits, it might work it might not.
 
hellspells said:
Booboos, I think this bit just proves your marmite comment earlier! (if I could work out how to I would put a big cheesy smiley here). Its only the Total saddle soulutions ones I have ridden in, I didn't feel comfortable at all and it was this that made me cry (but I do have a few hip issues, and found the twists just far far to much for me. I can't describe the pain). My YO had them and loved them and they really served a purpose for her, but she found she didn't have the security she needed for lateral work at all, and once they were up to medium went back to a traditional tree'd saddle.
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Yes, no one should buy them without giving them a good 'test drive'!!! :D Riding in the treeless is like physio for my back, but there you go everyone is different!
 
I think a lot of problems people have with treeless is they believe one fits all.

Whilst most treeless will FIT most horses (most of them are flexible and mould), it can be quite difficult to get the right treeless to SUIT a particular horse and rider.

There are so many different types/styles out there (far more varied than treed saddles!) that you need to try quite a few to find one that suits, if indeed there is one. And you can't try just one or two styles, find they don't suit and declare all treeless rubbish;)

And, as someone said, you get what you pay for. The cheap ones are cheap and nasty!

Nice thing about treelees is that most reputable companies will let you trial them, which might be the way for you to go. Have a good look at the well-thought-of brands (Heather Moffet, Ansur/Solution, Freeform etc) and trail them. They will all tell you that of course their saddle will fit your horse ;) but you need to try them all before deciding.

Treeless's can be brilliant. They don't distrubute the weight completely like a (good!) tree'd saddle but they do dissapate it enough so they it doesn't cause painful pressure points. They are flexible in all directions (this it their major advantage over tree'd saddles) and shouldn't have anything that digs in or restricts the back. However if they don't suit the horse (or the rider) they can press on the spine, cause pressure points under the stirrups and seat, can slip badly and feel far too wide for the rider.
 
Jen_Cots said:
Not stupid question - they are a very thick bean bag type pad

http://www.davidahnequine.co.uk/

Its basically the only pad that will work where a saddle doesn't fit

To quote from the site "The SUBER Saddle Pad has been tested under the severest conditions imaginable, bordering on the cruel. Men weighing 20 stone (280 pounds) have ridden at the sitting trot for eight hours a day for weeks, with crude wooden saddles, yet the SUBER Pad protected the horse's backs perfectly, the trials were completed without any problems."
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That looks like a brilliant idea, especially as one of his major problems is chaffing from whatever pad or sheepskin I use when he sweats. I have ordered one today and am going to try this before going down the treeless route which sounds a bit full of pitfalls! Thank you!
 
Thank you very much to all who have replied, it has given me a much better understanding of treeless saddles and that basically they are not the cure all for everything! As I said above I have ordered a suber pad and am going to give that a go first to see if he feels more comfortable with this. If not I shall give some of the treeless companies and ring and do some trials.
 
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