Treeless Saddles - Opinions and facts?

[hesychia]

Hiya,
I'm costing to see if I can buy my first pony, and as she's three and I'm not rich I need a saddle that can change shape as she grows.
I love treeless saddles, think they're really comfy and the horses I've ridden in them go really well in them, and I have a couple of friends who use them with good results too.
However, the lady at the yard where I would stable my pony says not to bother because her friend had one and she said it slipped, so instead she reccommends a Wintec with the changeable gullet system. However, I detest synthetic saddles.
I've spoken to some of my friends about this and they all say that treeless saddles don't slip.
I'm thinking of buying a Barefoot Cheyenne: http://www.horseandharmony.co.uk/barefoot-cheyenne-264-p.asp as I have a very limited budget.
What are other people's opinions and experiences with treeless saddles? Especially the Barefoots.
Thankyou =)

 

[kezimac]

go on Enlightened Equitation website - you'll find more info about treeless there - heather moffett makes lovely treeless saddles but well out of your budget - i think she recommends barefoot as the best of the budget treeless saddles. They can slip if horse has flat back no withers and if particulary round! - but then so can treed! - Get a neoprene girth to help with slippage. They can feel wide when riding them though as wide twist.

 

[Sparkles]

Despise both....so neither sorry lol!

 

[Toffee44]

I loved my friends saddle that came with my horse. She took the saddle back when I bought him though mean friend!!!
Its the mark 1 barefoot cheyenne. All I can stress is please dont skimp on the numnah get the proper numnah, my vet has seen bad backs because of people not getting the proper numnahs. I should have really bought a Barefoot saddle but instead I bought a pony bad me.
All I can say tho is it wasnt easy to jump in. I also used it on my TB although I felt too much whither between my legs and felt his every step but for big lad (Winston) its so comfy.

 

[iconique]

I tried a friends and quite liked it on one of our horses, took the plunge and bought a Trekker. We have a western that my husband rides in so different wasn't a problem. Our big mare still was ok in it but it wasn't quite the same as what we tried, probably becuase they had restuffed the shaped bit. We then tried it on our ex med-advanced dressage horse. She hunched up in it so much that we didn't really get to ride in it. I thought it might be an exception, however lent it to my friend to try on her ISH as she wanted to try one and she didn't like it and her horse didn't either. We had the proper numnahs and even tried gel pads, still without a good result.

I think that it is probably an aquired taste, our 14.3 pony didn't mind it though, so perhaps it depends on horse and rider. Personally found the seating position good, although a little different feel to normal.

If it wasn't what i or the pony was used to, i wouldn't go make the mistake again.

 

[hesychia]

Thanks guys. The pony isn't even broken yet - I've ridden her a couple of times but she's not even near trot yet. She's a warmblood x cob. And I'm not really bothered about jumping - more interested in getting her rideable first! LOL. Thanks kezimac for the girth tip and toffee44 for the saddle pad tip, will definitely take those into consideration!
Here's some photos of her which might make it easier:

Also, what do people think of her conformation? Thankyou!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Just tried to post this once and the site went down!
Sorry I know nothing about either treeless or Wintec saddles.
As for confo, she has a pretty face and looks like a nice sort. I am a bit concerned about her feet though. They look to be far too long in the toes, which sets her back on her heels. The hoof pastern axis is broken. This puts undue stress on the structures of the hoof and on the tendons and ligaments, particularly of her front legs. This could also affect her way of going. Is it possible to use a different farrier?

 

[irish_only]

The only pony I have seen that was ridden in a Barefoot ended up with white hairs down either side, caused by the pressure from the stirrup bars and weight in the leg, so I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole. It has all the proper pads etc too. Have done LOADS of research because I have a horse that has been difficult to fit (ended up buying a second hand saddle from a saddlers and had it fitted/reflocked to suit.
Also tried a bates which I loved, but that started rising behind once the horse became fit, no matter which gullet we put in. Again LOADSA research, and it depends on the shape of the tree, even on something like a Wintec, as some trees are flatter, and some more curved and it depends what shape your horse is.
So, I would only go with a tree'd saddle. Shop around for a cheapy that fits fairly well and ask a saddle fitter to come and re-flock as and when until your baby has developed more.
Good luck. Nive looking baby.

 

[Sarah Sum1]

I tried a treeless saddle for a few weeks and was suprised how much i liked it! Don't think i would ever buy one though, prefer the shape of a 'normal' saddle.

 

[miss_bird]

A woman i ride for a few days week will only have treeless saddles on her horses, took some getting used to and they are rather comfy.
Dont think i would trust one for xcountry or any type of jumping

 

[Tamba]

Hi
im using a barefoot cheyenne with my youngster
she seems to be happy enough in it, and has protested with other saddles on
which is why I opted for a treeless,
think it is handy when they are growing and changing shape

 

[cbmcts]

Ok, my experiences with various treeless saddles

I like them, I started looking into them about 10 years ago when my Welsh Cob was being backed, he had 4 saddles in under a year because he kept changing shape, he was also difficult to fit because he has huge shoulders that limit the style of saddle that he can have.....so I heard about about the Freeform saddle and after spending months to try and see one, finally got a go on one and liked it. Despite being skint at the time tried to order one from the suppliers in this country and I have to say, while being nice people they were the most disorganised, inefficient company I have ever dealt with - and that's saying something!! Had a look at the Torsion but didn't like it as much but finally found Kasia (?) at Horse and Harmony and ordered a Trekker from her (the 1st brand of Treeless she sold before she started selling the Barefoots and £300 instead of £600 ) which I loved and kept for about 8 years. Other people on my yard then ordered the Cheyanne after trying my saddle and while it is very similar I prefered my Trekker, IMO the quality of leather was better and it had rings instead of d's for the stirrup leathers so the leathers didn't slide (and bruise) as they could on the Cheyanne.

When I got my next horse, he didn't like the "old style" treeless as he had some back issues so I bought another Trekker but much more traditional looking and with a gullet.
http://www.equinewhispers.co.uk/shopping/trekker-endurance-classic-treeless-saddle-p-226.html

I love them - I have a dodgy back and riding in a treed saddle cripples me, they are adjustable to take into account shape changes, my horses love them too but on the older style ones you MUST use safety stirrups and the correct pads, they are not recommended for "larger" riders or novices, they will slip if you don't sit straight (very good test, I think ) and it can be difficult to mount from the ground.

TBH, I think they're a bit of a Marmite product .........

 

[Happytohack]

I have two heavy horses (see signature). They are both ridden in Torsion treeless saddles. I bought one saddle 10 years ago and it's still going strong. They are brilliant for wide, flat backed horses and for horses that change shape alot. They aren't good for jumping and some people don't like the wide feel of them. You must use the recommended saddle pad with them and the correct dressage style girth. They can slip - especially on barrell-shaped horses, but I use a thinline pad or a gel-eze pad underneath the numnah and this stops any slip. Some treeless saddles have a ring where the stirrups attach, which means that the stirrups won't come off in an accident, so you must have cages on your stirrups to stop your foot getting stuck. Interestingly enough, I did have a treed saddle fitted for my black mare as I thought the old Torsion was looking a bit worse for wear, but she really objected to it and I soon went back to the Torsion.

 

[Theresa_F]

I have the Barefoot London dressage saddle which I bought for my chap when he was three as I knew over the next couple of years he was (and has) broadened out so much.

I now use it on both my traditional cob and my husband's clydesdale mare as I like riding in it. It gives you a lot of feel from the horse - almost like bareback. The only thing I don't like is jumping more than 2'3 in it. I now have a WH show saddle for showing and jumping but for everyday schooling and hacking use the treeless.

They do need to have care taken when fitting, the Barefoot has three different pommel widths and two sizes.

Some people hate them, they do show up any weakness in your leg and seat, but others love them as they are (in my opinion) very comfortable.

My horses both will go in either saddle, but they were both carefully backed and therefore will take any saddle type without any bother.

Finally, do not buy the very cheap ones and make sure that you do get the correct pad for the saddle and model you choose or you can end up doing damage to the horse's back. You will also need dressage girth, leathers and safety stirrups.

I have never had my saddle slip, though both our horses are chunky, they do have withers and are not barrell shaped which may help.

 

[ElvisandTilly]

After having problems with fitting treed saddles to my short coupled, big shouldered, sprung ribbed and forward girth grooved horse and going through 5 saddles in 18 months and one of these was a made to measure that didn't fit when it was finally made up.

I finally bit the bullet and bought a barefoot london. I had never thought about treeless but its the best thing I could have done. I have been riding in it now for over 2 months and he is moving really well in it. He is like a different horse.

I don't have to worry too much about weight gain or loss. I do use it with a curved neoprene girth I bought from equine whispers as this sits the girth in his forward girth grove. It doesn't slip even when mounting from the floor. It did take a while to get used to his big movement in it but I am used to it now!

 

[Smogul]

Would suggest you try it and see. Our Section D is difficult to fit for a number of reasons but he loathed the treeless saddles we tried on him, flatly refused to move at all in one of them. Generally now OH rides him bareback and has dressage saddle for hacking in.

 

[stencilface]

I have a barefoot London for dressage and flatwork and find it really comfy. I used to get a sore back hacking in my jumping saddle, and used to think it was my riding that was at fault, but now with this I have no sore back. I still love my jumping saddle for jumping and faster hacks, but also love my barefoot one.

TBH, I would have bought a treed saddle, but finding a MW second hand dressage saddle proved impossible - and I simply couldn't afford a new one. I had my saddle fitted (and recommended) by the Chiropractor and never had any problems. I bought the physio pad to go underneath it to. I love the feeling of almost being bareback too, but they make you sit wider than a treed saddle, so can take some getting used to (although you'll be fine if you've ridden bareback before)

One tip, get the longest grith possible, so that it comes as far up the side as possible - prevents the saddle slipping. I also bought some safety things for my stirrups so they come off in the event of a fall (as stirrup 'bars' are closed rings).
I coudl see how the stirrup bars could cause pressure points, but thats also on fitting the saddle - a badly fitted treed saddle would also cause rubbing/sore points

 

[hesychia]

Pearlsasinger - she doesn't see the farrier. Not my decision as I don't own her, and I know her feet are too long =( I don't get a say in her welfare at the moment.
Thankyou to everyone for all the hints, tips and votes. I think it's going to have to be a trial and error thing! I will see if I can get one on trial and see if it suits her. Does anyone know where I get get one on trial? =) Thankyou for all the lovely comments on her! She's a wonderful pony with a brilliant - very cheeky! - personality =)
I currently ride her bareback if that adds anything.

 

[stencilface]

I trialled mine from here

www.bettersaddles.co.uk

The lady was very helpful, and there's a variety to try. I ended up buying the trial one, which saved me some pennies

 

[hesychia]

I'll have a look at that, thankyou! =D