Treeless Saddles? Yey or neigh?

[Annie&Lilly]

My 3 1/2 Y.O warmblood cross is still growing, of course. But has been through 4 Saddles already, and I only backed her over the summer!

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on going treeless?
As there are some leather traditional looking treeless saddles going on ebay, that seem very very cheapbut are they safe?

Just wanting some opinions if you don't mind!

(I've not been on for a while, I've just moved yards! Pics to follow!)

Thanks guys!

 

[Oberon]

Cheap treeless - no.

Well made treeless - yes.

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

I have had a treeless and just loved it, will get another too, when I get a horse that is!

 

[Annie&Lilly]

Could you possibly reconmmend any particular brand, and what you found better about it?

As I am a bit confused about which is better and why!

Thanks!

 

[rowy]

I have a treeless at the moment on my 3 1/2 year old exmoor as its the only saddle that will fit her atm. Its incredibly comfy but I dont like it, I dont feel very safe or secure- one time I cantered and it shifted onto her neck so she started broncing and it slipped all the way to the size (i consequently fell off) and i had it done up really tight before it happened. I see the positives in that it doesnt matter if the horse changes shape but apart from that I dont like them. My is a torsion and I have sat on a all solutions treeless (£2000) which i absolutely hated! Felt like I was doing the splits and my back ached so bad when trotting up a hill in it and another girl who rode in it said the same thing.
Couldnt you get a adjustible treed saddle? My saddle fitter is great and I just had a made to measure saddle for my rising 5 year old but she has a barnsby saddle fitter coming every so often and he will always try and adjust the saddle to fit the horse rather than having to get a whole new saddle. In mine the tree is slightly adjustible (mine is a harry dabbs dressage).
Another lady I know is getting a saddle company saddle made to measure for her rising 4 year old which is also adjustible.

 

[Oberon]

Could you possibly reconmmend any particular brand, and what you found better about it?

As I am a bit confused about which is better and why!

Thanks!

Tried and tested brands are the only way to go.

I have a Freeform - which I love to bits.
I also have an ancient Torsion - which I love (but I do not recommend the nowadays).

The only ones to consider are;

Solution
Heather Moffett's Fhoenix/SBS/Vogue (new, cheaper version out this Feb)
Freeform
Freemax
Barefoot
Libra
Trekker
Startrek
Ansur

Most of which need an appropriate pad underneath (Equitex is my favourite).

 

[Alphamare]

Freeform and heather moffatts here! Love em!

 

[foxy1]

I've had a freemax jump and an easytrek, both awful, so it's neigh from me!

 

[Stacey6897]

Yay, mine was great for when I was starting my gelding, it didn't slip and was very comfy, fairly cheap, looked like a traditional dressage saddle

Had a different one that looked a bit like a cockroach, not so keen

 

[Marydoll]

I read an article comparing treed and treeless in relation to back issues and treeless didnt come out well, im sorry i wish i could remember where i read it, but i cant

 

[Kyo's Mum]

The article was done and paid for by the Society of Master Saddlers so not sure if it was a fair and unbiased study!

I have Freeforms and love them. One for my old girl that we've had for 6 years now and she would never let me go back to anything else. It brought a very pleasant end to endless saddle issues. I also just got one for my 3 year old.

Don't go for a cheap import or treeless saddle they are pants. Freemax were designed by the guy that originally designed the Freeform, but the Freeform has developed since then.

 

[monkeybum13]

Yuck, yuck, yuck!

 

[forestfantasy]

I adore my Solutions saddle (same as Ansur but they are the american version) and wouldn't ride my horse in anything else now.

http://www.solution-saddles.co.uk/

Have a look at their website, it has some excellent information.

Yes they are expensive but they are worth it as it will fit any horse you have with the correct pads, they do come up on ebay every so often, make sure you know what size you need (the saddle fits you, fitting guide on the website) then get a fitter to come and check it. Works out a lot cheaper.

 

[SpottyTB]

Hacked, jumped and hunted in one, not my cup of tea, felt like I had no security but being young and foolish I didnt mind hence the 6 hours hunting in one!

Did however sort my friends cobs back issues out- he used to get lumps where the saddle went. Got at least 5 different saddlers out, 2 made to fit saddles and he still came up in lumps. Put treeless on him and hay presto he was lump less!

 

[Ashgrove]

I've had a Heather Moffet SBS, I found it incredibly comfortable but not very stable .

I now have a Total Saddle Solution GP, I love it and the 2 horses I've used it on haven't complained. I've done an endurance ride in it, Trec (lots of turns), jumping and general hacking .

 

[Tinypony]

The article paid for by the Master Saddlers was misleading, it mentioned that in the testing they didn't use the pads recommended for the saddles tested, and they didn't name which saddles they tested. As with treed saddles, there are good and bad out there, just look at the cheap stuff on EBay!
I would go treeless for a youngster because it will easily allow for changing shape. I've found my Heather Moffet saddle to be very stable, but I use the recommended accessories with it, don't know if that helps. Better Saddles is a useful company because they have fitters who will visit and sort out the best option for horse and rider and fit it properly, and they do treed and treeless saddles.
I also found the Freeform to be a useful treeless option.

 

[Spotsrock]

I have always been an albion kinda girl, but after B slipped a disk, she kept re-damaging her back (big lumps of scar tissue coming up along spine) everytime I put a tree'ds on her, including fitting sessions! These were well fitting saddles checked by 2 different saddlers and my physio. She was ok bareback so Physio suggested trying a treeless for a while. I spent a long time looking into the types on offer and tried her with a cheap endurance one with no hard componants so no wither bar.

I had the endurance knees taken off and little event style ones added and I took the big chunky seat off (which was a bit like a car tyre! very comfy but I felt a long way from horse, only velcro'd on anyway) and had a flat piece of leather with velcro underside put on instead, whole thing only cost me about £20 for alterations so under £150 for saddle.

I bought one with sheepskip (probably fake) underside and checked it carefully for seams, there are none. I have found that the stirrups fall off the stirrup bar as soon as I put any weight in them, ie jumping or galloping but as it's velcro'd on and only has a thin piece of leather over it I have taped up the ends of the bars so the leathers don't slipe off and if I do fall off and get my foot stuck the velcro will come away making me safe.

I have had no problems with her back since we went treeless and now ride all my horses in treeless saddles. L who is 32 and had started to object to a rigid saddle, is back in work and happy and the new boy is no different tree'd to treeless.

I have bought a Freemax GP/Jump for jumping B as it gives a good weight distribution for her, though it was the most horrid thing I have ever ridden on, and cost me about £500 new.

I have had the cantle cut down as they were not able to provide a flatter cantle, this was a real task as the leather was glued to the foam filling and saddler had to peel it carefully back as far as possible and hack a wedge out of the foam with a bread knife because she was not able to get the leather off the foam without ripping it!! She did do a lovely job.

The knee rolls were screwed on with massive sharp screws which I found dangerous so saddler removed those and peeled them off (poor quality glue) and sewed them on properly for me. I am now happy(ish) with my saddle though if she ducks out (fortunatly a very rare occurance) of a fence, or spooks, it slides round no matter how tight the girth - the cheap one is better on this side of things.

One thing I have noticed is that my back (I have sciatica and can be quite uncomfortable) is much better in the treeless than previously when I had a tree'd saddle, even the cheaper one. I'd just find a saddler or leatehr worker you trust with reasonable prices, buy the closest to what you want, then have it altered to your specs.

 

[Alphamare]

I dont believe that article for a second. None of my horses has any back problems, and neither of us is a light weight rider either.

Heather says she tested her pannels by putting them under one of those mechanical horse things. Didn't even dent it! Those things weight 100s of kilos!

 

[Capriole]

Ive seen a thread somewhere else about a heavy rider and one of heathers saddles though, it wasnt pretty.

I think, if the saddle suite the horse and the rider thats great, I dont believe they can and will suit everybody and every horse though, despite what some blurb implies. I like mine though, and my horse does too, so thats good enough for me

 

[Oberon]

Ive seen a thread somewhere else about a heavy rider and one of heathers saddles though, it wasnt pretty.

I think, if the saddle suite the horse and the rider thats great, I dont believe they can and will suit everybody and every horse though, despite what some blurb implies. I like mine though, and my horse does too, so thats good enough for me

I think that's a very sensible stand

 

[Megibo]

I had one and loved it, (libra one) it was very comfy but not very stable even when done up tightly. Used the appropriate pads too etc but horse hated it started getting difficult to tack up.
now i use it on her for lunging the little kiddies and she doesn't mind that.

 

[ElvisandTilly]

I have the Heather Moffett Fheonix dressage saddle. I struggled finding a treed saddle to fit my awkward shaped and fussy horse. He was constantly changing shape and even a M2M saddle didn't work.

I finally decided to try treeless. My first purchase was a Barefoot London saddle. My horse took to this well but my hips didn't. It was agony! Decided to buy the fheonix after trying my friends on. I bought off ebay at a much cheaper price than they sell new.

My horse moves so much more freely than he ever has done and we no longer have problems with saddle fit as he changes shape as we just change the panels as required. I can use a normal (hi wither) saddle cloth which with the barefoot I had to use their pad.

Have a look at the Enlightened Equitation Forum as there is alot of advise and tips on there under saddle section.

Heather is bringing out a new leather treed saddle called the FlexEE (I think?) it can be made in synthetic or leather. The synthetic is £349. I am awaiting them coming out end February as I want the GP saddle so I have the dressage and GP saddles to use as and when.

I would definately recommend trialling any of the treeless saddle before you buy especially of the more expensive models as not all treeless fit all horses and riders. They still need fitting correctly also but can be shimmed and different styles of pads used as required.

Good luck!

 

[Alphamare]

I didn't say we were heavyweight riders! I just said we weren't lightweights! Hubby rides treeless too and is normal (over 12 stone) bloke size. I currently weigh more than I would like too and I'm not a teeny under 10 stone woman. More like 12.

Treeless saddles are often touted as being for lightweight riders only but it's not true!

 

[TigerTail]

I think there is a 15 stone weight limit on Heathers. However a heavy rider can actually have a lighter seat than a physically light rider - it depends on your riding style and ability.

I would only look at HMs and solutions tbh if i was looking, which im not as iv got a HM vogue and cant imagine riding anything else!

Heather doing a new one atm which has a leather tree, instead of the memory foam which is whats in the vogues. The synthetic one is only £349!

http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/ee/boards/index.php/topic,45626.0.html

If the saddle isnt stable its down to rider balance or the horses conformation. Both of which can be sorted

 

[Brontie]

Ive ridden on one a few times, and IMO they're incredibly uncomfortable. You don't have the deep seat that you do with a traditional leather, so you do feel almost asif your perched on it, rather than sat into it. I also found it incredibly uncomfortable to ride on when doing a rising trot, as have others that have ridden in it. A no from me.

 

[Rowreach]

The article paid for by the Master Saddlers was misleading, it mentioned that in the testing they didn't use the pads recommended for the saddles tested, and they didn't name which saddles they tested. .

I know which saddles they tested and I also know that they didn't invite anyone from the relevant companies to fit the saddles or even to advise on the fitting The article was totally biased and misleading.

I use Solution saddles and have done for years. I use them on every horse that comes through the yard, on all the backers and schoolers, and my children ride in them too. They are great for horses with changing shapes - in fact, that's the whole point, and why they are so good for horses with muscle wastage/saddle damage caused by treed saddles. The treeless allows the shoulder the freedom to move and the muscles including topline to build up. They don't suit all riders, but I have honestly yet to find a horse that doesn't benefit from them (by which I mean the best ones, not the rubbish cheapie ones).

 

[forestfantasy]

I know which saddles they tested and I also know that they didn't invite anyone from the relevant companies to fit the saddles or even to advise on the fitting The article was totally biased and misleading.

I use Solution saddles and have done for years. I use them on every horse that comes through the yard, on all the backers and schoolers, and my children ride in them too. They are great for horses with changing shapes - in fact, that's the whole point, and why they are so good for horses with muscle wastage/saddle damage caused by treed saddles. The treeless allows the shoulder the freedom to move and the muscles including topline to build up. They don't suit all riders, but I have honestly yet to find a horse that doesn't benefit from them (by which I mean the best ones, not the rubbish cheapie ones).

Where's the 'like' button?!

 

[Alphamare]

Which treeless saddles did they test? There are only a handful I would use. I have two and I would consider trying a solutions too.

 

[Capriole]

I didn't say we were heavyweight riders! I just said we weren't lightweights! Hubby rides treeless too and is normal (over 12 stone) bloke size. I currently weigh more than I would like too and I'm not a teeny under 10 stone woman. More like 12.

Treeless saddles are often touted as being for lightweight riders only but it's not true!

and I never you said you were heavy, light, or commented about your weight in any way! I said I saw a thread about a heavy rider using one of heathers saddles, not the same thing

 

[sbloom]

I know which saddles they tested and I also know that they didn't invite anyone from the relevant companies to fit the saddles or even to advise on the fitting The article was totally biased and misleading.

I'm no great fan of treeless, generally think that the expensive ones are better, but totally agree that this kind of testing is meaningless - I've even heard of one set of pressure testing equipment out there that, at least a few years ago, had never been recalibrated despite being used regularly for years! There are companies advertising their product, showing how well it fits, using pressure testing, and again it is meaningless - the interpretation of the results, and knowing how they were achieved, is incredibly important.

I will also say that I am slightly aghast that an unstable saddle is seen as a balance issue with the rider etc - occasionally I will see a saddle that is unstable with one rider but fine with another, but saddles should generally be stable whoever is riding unless they have a REALLY marked asymmetry. There are too many horses wearing saddles that slip where the owners think it is normal - saddles should not slip.