forestfantasy
Well-Known Member
I would also like to add that my solutions has NEVER slipped even out hunting, i wouldn't use a saddle that did 
Treeless Saddles? Yey or neigh?
- Thread starter Annie&Lilly
- Start date
Rowreach
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Heather Moffat and Solution (the original Solution which are like the Ansur, not the new SMART saddles).
Rowreach
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It's interesting to note, though, that the invention of the tree was never anything to do with the comfort of or benefit to the horse - it was all about keeping the saddle from slipping, particularly when the rider was attempting to kill another rider (ie leaning out the side door while impaling the enemy on his spear
).I do believe that treeless saddles show up rider faults, particularly those of balance, but it could be argued that riding in treeless can greatly benefit rider skills
I'd like to add that I've never had any problems with my treeless saddles slipping on any horse - and like I said, I do my backing in them, and the youngsters love them and tend to be far more laid back to do - because they are comfortable.
Oberon
Well-Known Member
I will say that I find my Freeform very stable. It's never slipped with us.
However, when I allowed a novice rider to ride The Tank, he complained that the saddle was slipping and, "Do you not have a NORMAL saddle?"
Conclude from that what you wish
Passtheshampoo
Well-Known Member
I went through 6 saddles including a made to measure jobby whilst my RID youngster was growing. When it came to backing and riding away her RID daughter 2 years ago I went out and bought a Heather Moffett Fhoenix soft tree saddle. Have to say she's had it for 2 years and it has fitted all that time. As she's rising 6 and has more or less finished growing I'm going back to a treed saddle and my saddle is now up for sale. I certainly think it's been worthwhile investing in the HM Fhoenix and has been so much easier than swapping and changing saddles every few months.
Kyo's Mum
Active Member
One of the reasons I went to treeless was because I was sick of saddles slipping. One saddle fitter suggested I should use a breast plate and cropper!!
Saffron is a NF with a flat back, no withers and huge shoulders. we tried all sorts of tree'd saddles, leather & synthetic, old ones and new ones, endurance, showing, GP, jumping, dressage and western. One year we got through 6 saddles, cost a bloody fortune!!
I tried loads of different treeless and part tree'd saddles. The thing that she showed me was that it was the pressure behind her scapula from a fix tree'd saddle that was uncomfortable. She was fab bareback, soft and round in all paces, with easy transitions and a lovely jump. Under saddle it all went horribly wrong.
I like the freeform because the density of the foam spreads the weight. I tested it myself using a Port Lewis pad, which is a pad filled with putty and you put it under the saddle and ride! With the freeform the putty remained evenly spread, with her last tree'd saddle the putty all disappeared from under the points of her saddle.
The freeform also had some other benefits, the girth attaches to two large webbing straps, one goes to the pommel and one to the cantle, to help spread the pressure fom the girth. The girth also 'swings' which is very useful for a pony with a forward girth groove. And the stirrups can be moved to where it is comfortable and practical for you. When hacking I like my feet underneath me, especially as drop shoulder spin is her favourite spook, and if we are jumping I can simply move them forward a bit!
Saffs saddle has never slipped, we do everything in it, and SHE wouldn't have anything else. And I now find it uncomfortable to ride on a tree'd saddle.
But as has been said you need to get the right saddle for you and your horse and the only way to know if it's right for you both is to ride on one. So beg and borrow from friends and hire from companies, it will be a worthwhile investment
Saffron is a NF with a flat back, no withers and huge shoulders. we tried all sorts of tree'd saddles, leather & synthetic, old ones and new ones, endurance, showing, GP, jumping, dressage and western. One year we got through 6 saddles, cost a bloody fortune!!
I tried loads of different treeless and part tree'd saddles. The thing that she showed me was that it was the pressure behind her scapula from a fix tree'd saddle that was uncomfortable. She was fab bareback, soft and round in all paces, with easy transitions and a lovely jump. Under saddle it all went horribly wrong
.I like the freeform because the density of the foam spreads the weight. I tested it myself using a Port Lewis pad, which is a pad filled with putty and you put it under the saddle and ride! With the freeform the putty remained evenly spread, with her last tree'd saddle the putty all disappeared from under the points of her saddle.
The freeform also had some other benefits, the girth attaches to two large webbing straps, one goes to the pommel and one to the cantle, to help spread the pressure fom the girth. The girth also 'swings' which is very useful for a pony with a forward girth groove. And the stirrups can be moved to where it is comfortable and practical for you. When hacking I like my feet underneath me, especially as drop shoulder spin is her favourite spook, and if we are jumping I can simply move them forward a bit!
Saffs saddle has never slipped, we do everything in it, and SHE wouldn't have anything else. And I now find it uncomfortable to ride on a tree'd saddle.
But as has been said you need to get the right saddle for you and your horse and the only way to know if it's right for you both is to ride on one. So beg and borrow from friends and hire from companies, it will be a worthwhile investment
sbloom
Well-Known Member
It's interesting to note, though, that the invention of the tree was never anything to do with the comfort of or benefit to the horse - it was all about keeping the saddle from slipping, particularly when the rider was attempting to kill another rider (ie leaning out the side door while impaling the enemy on his spear
My understanding is that the tree was developed to allow the use of stirrups.
Rowreach
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Well the "stirrups" came first but the point of the tree was to allow the rider to lean away from the horse without the saddle slipping sideways. While using stirrups. My point is that if we do not lean out of the side door (which most of us do not need to do
), we do not require a tree to keep us stable - particularly when the tree is not, as is commonly claimed, there for the benefit and comfort of the horse 
ShadowFlame
Well-Known Member
I bought my 4yo cob a Heather Moffett Fhoenix for the same reason, admittedly haven't done an awful lot of riding in it yet, but is going well enough so far. The only thing that irritates me about it is the dressage girth!
TigerTail
Well-Known Member
A very good dressage rider, Desi Loren, used to say it is the riders balance than keeps the saddle upright not ze girth! And rode without a girth, as did all his pupils to prove the point
A rider who continually favours one side will always make a saddle go to one side. If this is constantly happening the rider needs to look at this as an issue.
If a treeless saddle makes you feel perched then im guessing youve tried the cheaper type? HMs do not have that feeling, the memory foam warms with your body heat and the horse and sucks you in tis amazing to sit on
A rider who continually favours one side will always make a saddle go to one side. If this is constantly happening the rider needs to look at this as an issue.
If a treeless saddle makes you feel perched then im guessing youve tried the cheaper type? HMs do not have that feeling, the memory foam warms with your body heat and the horse and sucks you in tis amazing to sit on
Monkers
Well-Known Member
Personally I am not mad on Treeless saddles, but that is partly because I have little to do with them and I use a saddle maker who tailor makes my saddles for every horse. I have always been happy with them and have never felt the need to try treeless.
Some of my clients have treeless saddles and the feedback has been that they felt an enormous positive difference initially, but gradually the old problems that led them to buy the saddle in the first place came back.
I have seen the saddle company adjustable saddles and I think they can work very well as long as your horse has an easy back to fit. They will not adjust in all circumstances and their fitters have been on a saddle "awareness" course and are not qualified saddle fitters. I think this can be misleading.
Has anyone heard of Semi flex saddles? I have never used one and wondered if any of you have? They have trees but they move with the horse. A sort of cross between a treed saddle and a treeless. Could be the best (or the worst!) of both!!
Some of my clients have treeless saddles and the feedback has been that they felt an enormous positive difference initially, but gradually the old problems that led them to buy the saddle in the first place came back.
I have seen the saddle company adjustable saddles and I think they can work very well as long as your horse has an easy back to fit. They will not adjust in all circumstances and their fitters have been on a saddle "awareness" course and are not qualified saddle fitters. I think this can be misleading.
Has anyone heard of Semi flex saddles? I have never used one and wondered if any of you have? They have trees but they move with the horse. A sort of cross between a treed saddle and a treeless. Could be the best (or the worst!) of both!!
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
That wasn't my experience, I've been riding treeless on various horses for about 8 years, and the problems I had with the treed saddles didn't come back. In particular, my cob's movement was always much better when being ridden treeless. I don't buy cheap treeless saddles though, I don't know if that helps.
A lady I used to ride with had a semi flex saddle and it wasn't great in her case, quite unstable. There could be various reasons for that though I guess.
Monkers
Well-Known Member
Yes, I thought the theory of the semiflex sounded quite good, but I wondered if they would feel unstable.
I do think your right, you need to be well informed when it comes to treeless as there seems to be so much variety. You obviously need a good understanding of how to fit all the pads too. Too complicated for me!
hackedoff
Well-Known Member
I have tried the following treeless saddles
Bob Marshall ( I imported it 15 years ago for £1200 when no other treeless saddles were available in the UK)
Trekker treeless
Barefoot arizona
Libra
Heather moffat fhoneix
Heather moffat vogue
Unnamed free form rip off
With out exception my pony ended up hating them all! His main problems were the girthing systems as most have to be girthed so tight that he got pressure points on the belly rather than behind the withers, plus pressue on the back from the hoopy over the wither types. He hated the vogue wouldn't even trot in it.
From my view pont didn't feel stable esp when ended up under horse at a canter when bob marshall saddle slipped! Had dreadful hip problems with them all. Mine has been happiest in an Albion saddle!
I do however know people who swear by treeless saddles including one who rode 1000 km across mongolia using one.
My advice is to find a treeless supplier who will allow you to try for a few weeks before you buy. I did this with the HM saddles.
PS mine doesnt get on with wintecs either!
Bob Marshall ( I imported it 15 years ago for £1200 when no other treeless saddles were available in the UK)
Trekker treeless
Barefoot arizona
Libra
Heather moffat fhoneix
Heather moffat vogue
Unnamed free form rip off
With out exception my pony ended up hating them all! His main problems were the girthing systems as most have to be girthed so tight that he got pressure points on the belly rather than behind the withers, plus pressue on the back from the hoopy over the wither types. He hated the vogue wouldn't even trot in it.
From my view pont didn't feel stable esp when ended up under horse at a canter when bob marshall saddle slipped! Had dreadful hip problems with them all. Mine has been happiest in an Albion saddle!
I do however know people who swear by treeless saddles including one who rode 1000 km across mongolia using one.
My advice is to find a treeless supplier who will allow you to try for a few weeks before you buy. I did this with the HM saddles.
PS mine doesnt get on with wintecs either!
hackedoff
Well-Known Member
Forgot to say mine is happiest with flair inserts as well.
a kind of magic
Well-Known Member
I'm a treeless rider. Loved mine so much I'm a UK rep for them too, it's hand-made to order by an Amish man. EZ Fit saddle, VERY highly rated for endurance in the USA and it's such a comfortable saddle. Quite unusual to look at but it doesn't slip even on my roly poly shire x cob, doesn't have to be girthed any tighter than a treed saddle, it has an adjustable girthing system/stirrup and seat position too so fits a variety of riders and horses with a shim pad.
Started two horses with my EZ Fit and won't ride the big horse in anything else. He used to trip and stumble all the time and never does now, and I don't walk like John Wayne after a ride any more!
ETA: We do ride western although he is really an english horse but he looks good in the saddle!
Here's big fella in the EZ Fit:
Loved mine so much I'm a UK rep for them too, it's hand-made to order by an Amish man. EZ Fit saddle, VERY highly rated for endurance in the USA and it's such a comfortable saddle. Quite unusual to look at but it doesn't slip even on my roly poly shire x cob, doesn't have to be girthed any tighter than a treed saddle, it has an adjustable girthing system/stirrup and seat position too so fits a variety of riders and horses with a shim pad.Started two horses with my EZ Fit and won't ride the big horse in anything else. He used to trip and stumble all the time and never does now, and I don't walk like John Wayne after a ride any more!
ETA: We do ride western although he is really an english horse but he looks good in the saddle!
Here's big fella in the EZ Fit:
DDHorseslave
New User
Our big 18hh with oh onboard (6'3" & not skinny) goes very well in his Ansur. It can slip if not put on properly to start with - used with a large Suber pad. Use a Wintec stretchy girth and oh says it's very comfy and he can feel the horse so much better. Prefers it to conventional saddle, and it does put him in an excellent position.
I don't like very tight girths and unless your mount is a barrel shape, balance should do the most work. I was left stranded one day with all the tack, minus a girth and had to ride home across country for 15 miles using a bit of baler twine, which was more to kid me we had a girth! It was a conventional saddle, fitted well and it turned out we hardly missed the girth at all.
I don't like very tight girths and unless your mount is a barrel shape, balance should do the most work. I was left stranded one day with all the tack, minus a girth and had to ride home across country for 15 miles using a bit of baler twine, which was more to kid me we had a girth! It was a conventional saddle, fitted well and it turned out we hardly missed the girth at all.
spinneybarns
Member
I am a treeless saddle user and have been for over 10 years now, I compete in endurance and have hunted and jumped using my now old Torsion saddle. As has been previously said they do highlight rider imbalance as the treeless saddle relies on a rider not favouring one side.
A treed saddle will hold a poorly balanced rider in the correct position to the detriment of the horses back, and most horses back problems stem from poorly fitting saddles or an imbalanced rider. With a treeless saddle the rider has to balance himself which allows the horse to move more naturally.
There are very poor treeless saddles made from inferior materials and very good ones, but it is not necessarily the cost which dictates which are good and which not so good. I have seen and used some cheap ones which have been perfectly ok, but that said the numnah that is used must be of suitable thickness and designed for use with a treeless and not have the padding over the horses spine to allow for the weight of the saddle and rider to be lifted off the backbone.
We have used them on many different shapes of horse from Arabs to round barrelled ponies with no wither with no problem. I understand though that they do not suit everyone and you do have to adapt the way you ride and not rely on the saddle to keep you onboard.
A treed saddle will hold a poorly balanced rider in the correct position to the detriment of the horses back, and most horses back problems stem from poorly fitting saddles or an imbalanced rider. With a treeless saddle the rider has to balance himself which allows the horse to move more naturally.
There are very poor treeless saddles made from inferior materials and very good ones, but it is not necessarily the cost which dictates which are good and which not so good. I have seen and used some cheap ones which have been perfectly ok, but that said the numnah that is used must be of suitable thickness and designed for use with a treeless and not have the padding over the horses spine to allow for the weight of the saddle and rider to be lifted off the backbone.
We have used them on many different shapes of horse from Arabs to round barrelled ponies with no wither with no problem. I understand though that they do not suit everyone and you do have to adapt the way you ride and not rely on the saddle to keep you onboard.
lilaclomax
Well-Known Member
I my opinion nothing can beat a well fitting tree'd saddle, but a good treeless can be a good solution for a youngster, a horse that is changing shape or whilst you are waiting for the tree'd saddle to be adjusted... I would just not feel happy riding in one continously for over a month!
My saddle was fitted to my boy and has regular checks - he was backed in a treeless though as we tried on lots and lots of saddles to get the best fit (his one now is fitted well enough that he only needs a thin saddlecloth to keep it clean).
Good luck on your quest!
My saddle was fitted to my boy and has regular checks - he was backed in a treeless though as we tried on lots and lots of saddles to get the best fit (his one now is fitted well enough that he only needs a thin saddlecloth to keep it clean).
Good luck on your quest!
barehoofhannah
Well-Known Member
I have a barefoot one which I enjoy riding in and pony seems happy too. However on the barefoot one I have the stirrup leather attachment is fixed metal square shaped ring, so if stirrup got stuck it won't come off until something rips... which would take a lot of force. I ride in American style endurance caged stirrups (which are super) and means partner can pop on in trainers as can't get foot stuck through. Every so often I have a panic and think I should get the loop adapted but haven't done. I think I got stirrups from an endurance site in Uk, good as cage a decent size if got chunky footwear on, and it's semi hard foam makes confortable for long journeys. I'd also always get a leg up or get on using a fence/bucket etc as I have a chunky cob and unsure saddle wouldnt slip. I have the thick pad they suggest and my youngster is content with it on 3 hr trips out.
Best wishes
Hannah
Best wishes
Hannah
welsh horse rider
Well-Known Member
I was told by a equine chiropractor a few years ago that she was seeing a higher number of horses during that summer for problems caused by treeless saddles i have ridden in one can't say I'm fussed x
sjp1
Well-Known Member
I have a Barefoot treeless saddle and also a Black Country treed saddle. I use the Barefoot for hacking and the Black Country for schooling.
I love the Barefoot, very comfy and doesn't slip at all and we have hugely steep hills and my horse is very flat backed.
I had a HM Vogue and sold it - it did slip, and wasn't in my opinion as comfy at all as the Barefoot, in spite of being nearly three times the price!
I think you have to try them and draw your own conclusions. You can hire from Better Saddles so you don't get lumbered with something you aren't keen on. Most saddle fitters are anti treeless because it puts them out of jobs, and horses will have bad backs from poor fitting treed and treeless.
Bit like bits - all a minefield!
I love the Barefoot, very comfy and doesn't slip at all and we have hugely steep hills and my horse is very flat backed.
I had a HM Vogue and sold it - it did slip, and wasn't in my opinion as comfy at all as the Barefoot, in spite of being nearly three times the price!
I think you have to try them and draw your own conclusions. You can hire from Better Saddles so you don't get lumbered with something you aren't keen on. Most saddle fitters are anti treeless because it puts them out of jobs, and horses will have bad backs from poor fitting treed and treeless.
Bit like bits - all a minefield!