Treeless Saddles

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Abbeygale

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How many people have used treeless saddles and what have people thought of them?

Just curious.....
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i tried one of the prototype expensive ones, quite extensively. my best horse at the time went no differently in the treeless compared to her treed (very well fitting and comfy) dr saddle. i also tried one on an old horse of mine who had a slightly sway back, and the saddle ended up folding up around my bum! i wasn't convinced at all.
i've considered them very long and hard, i'm always on the lookout for the comfiest possible thing for my horses. i think the big sticking point is this: why did people originally start using trees in saddles, rather than just saddlepads? answer: because someone had invented the stirrup, and the downward force, over a very small area, from the stirrups, had to be lifted off the spine somehow. modern treeless saddles still can't get away from this basic problem, i believe. if you're going to ride without stirrups, fine, but if you're going to have concentrated downward force in a localised area, no amount of wide webbing will distribute it enough, or as much as a tree does.
horses can and do go absolutely brilliantly in treed saddles, as long as the tree is the right shape, the width and balance are correct, and there's enough padding of the right kind. these criteria aren't necessarily met by some of the so-called "best" saddles, though.
the idea of one saddle to fit every horse is the most appealing thing about treeless, i guess, but it's not appealing enough for me to ignore the physics of the whole "weight on the spine" thing.
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Treeless saddles do not fit every horse! Our RS bought one on the thought that a couple of horses are really really hard to fit, one of them has a fairly dipped back it meant the saddle just folded around you!
 
Used one and really loved the feel, however for whatever reason it pinched my tb's spinal nerves; she threw me twice and ended up showing symptoms of narcolepsy (serious ones as well which ended in her retirement) - all down to the treeless. It was an expensive model as well. All I will say about them now is that they don't fit every horse, and I would go so far as to say each and every one should be fitted by a qualified saddle fitter, to the individual horse (so you may as well go back to treed!).
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I have saddles which have a quarter tree for the stirrups to attach to. Absolutely love them (now have dressage and jumping models!!). They have been pressure tested with grade A jumping 1.50m and no pressure shown!!! Made such a difference to my old chap, and also Titus, who after going in them brilliantly would throw a complete tantrum if in a treed one!!!! Now there the only saddles we use and broken horses in them and have horses that have never gone in anything else!!!!
I must admit i've never tried a complete treeless, but don't like the looks of them. Only tried this as friend business suggested I try it on Flynn, who we could never get a saddle to fit (VERY high, narrow withers, but then not stick thin). He did the nicest showjumping round I had ever ridden, he actually let me ride him, which was unheard of!!! He has since gone better and better and has now gone double clear intermediate!!!!
Sorry to ramble, but do love them!!
 
I used to use a Freeform on my horse, he was an Arabx Cob, and we both loved it! Just a delight on long hacks, and we managed a bit of jumping in it too, although I wouldn't jump too high!
I always felt 'with' the horse and it was so easy to feel how he was working.
 
Oh forgot to add, like nikki u can feel them move underneath you, and when there fully relaxed and engaged. I can go hunting all day in it and not get a sore bum, theres hardly any knee pads and no thigh pads but I feel much more secure than in a treed saddle. They were also made to my exact specifications (length of seat, flaps, colour, how forward cut, how much padding etc etc) and it was much cheaper than a treed saddle of basic fit.
 
I bought a Barefoot London (dressage) and have to say that I am very pleased with it. I use it on Cairo - who really goes well in it and Chancer who has never known anything other than this saddle.

I find it very comfortable and so far have not had any problems with the horses. I am having a physio out shortly to check them and he will find anything not right if the saddle has done anything.

A friend rode Chancer in it and hated it as she could feel every move he made - however I personally like this feeling
 
I would never use anything BUT treeless saddles on my horses.
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I have seen so many horses with saddle damage, and so many posts on here about horses with problems which imo could be resolved with the use of treeless saddles.

It is true that saying "one saddle fits everything" is a bit misleading - a treeless saddle must be fitted (balanced) to each individual horse, but it is not rocket science and can be easily done by the rider once they have been shown how. I have a dressage model and a jumping model, and can fit them in seconds to anything. They are much better for the horse's back, and for the rider's - how many riders complain about lower back pain? Mostly it's caused by their saddles.

Kerilli asks why saddles were designed with trees - the short answer is that it was never with the comfort of the horse in mind. It was entirely due to warriors needing to be able to stand in the stirrups whilst in combat - so they thought using the poor horses' spines to give them stability was a good idea.
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There is a very interesting article entitled Why Go Treeless? on the TSS website www.totalsaddlesolutions.com if anybody fancies a look
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I have ridden in a Torsion, The Cob whos saddle it is. is like a table top no withers at all, we broke her in a Safari club saddle coz it was the only thing we found that came 1/2 way close to her, she's a 15hh wide girl by the way! talk about pea on a drum, Then she had the Torsion, very comfey, i liked the way when you took it off you could see a clear strip down the spine so you knew know presure had been put there, Down side is the dressage style gith it was a pain on her coz if you lent over to pull the straps the saddle went as well, you need arms like Tr Tickle, & i guess coz of her sape it never stayed in place it always sliped, she know has a proper saddle, lord knows how they ever got one to fit her!
 
I have a Torsion Deluxe I use on my thug (15.1hh Shire x Dartmoor cob) which like Charlie77 says is a pain to do the girth on, but there is a simple answer to stop it slipping, I use a Barnsby Grip pad, it gives the channel the same as the proper pad and will not let the saddle move at all, my saddle also has two extra felt pads that go inside underneath, that makes the channel even more pronounced, and away from his spine.
 
When Kay Humphries (who makes treeless among other things) came out to look at my 13.2 Welsh C (round, but with a wither) - I asked about treeless and she advised not - even tho she could have sold me one... she said wrong shape horse and rider combination and it would slide sideways. She seemed to know what she was talking about, so we're going for one with a tree.

not that this helps directly, but it's a useful professional opinion from someone who deals in both treed and treeless.

E
 
Horrid things, have never seen one that suited a horse's back conformation and, as Kerilli said, trees were invented for a reason.

I also find them extremely uncomfortable to ride in and they murder your position....
 
I have a Treefree dartmoor for my Haflinger and IDxTB and they both loved it from Day1. This saddle doesnt bridge the spine with the stirrup leathers like some of the cheaper ones, and does have spine clearance channel.

But you do need a light stirrup pressure with treeless, stirrup just there to hold the foot steady not to have pressure exerted or be stood in. For that reason, they are not in my opinion suitable for longer length endurance or XC. However, they are great for relaxing hacking and the set back stirrup position has actually helped my leg position when riding back on a treed saddle.

Treed and treeless both have advantages and disadvantages, and neither is perfect.

I originally got mine so I could use it to back my Haflinger in, and it was brilliant for a young horse to do that, and now I use it for flatwork and hacking on both horses.

But I use a treed saddle for faster work and jumping.

I wouldnt want a treeless as my only saddle, but wouldnt be without it as a second saddle
 
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Horrid things, have never seen one that suited a horse's back conformation and, as Kerilli said, trees were invented for a reason.


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Trees were invented for mounted warfare for men in armour who needed:

a) stirrups to brace against

and

b) a steady pommel to brace against.

So basically, until iron body-suits came into fashion, nobody needed trees. And tribes/peoples that didn't find it useful to bash at each other with edged weapons as a hobby didn't use them either.

not that they're not good, just that we don't have the same reasons now

E
 
I too have a torsion for a table-top cob. He has never been happier and there have never been any signs of pressure from any part of the saddle. I also find it extremely comfy.
As said though, treeless do NOT fit or suit all horses or all riders.
 
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I also find them extremely uncomfortable to ride in and they murder your position....

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I am extremely intrigued by this comment. I've been riding on a treeless for the last 3 years. Just recently I went for my first lesson in years and fully expected to be told my 'seat' was awful. But to my surprise she said not so. I do have lots of bad habits but my 'seat' was very good, according to the instructor.
I do like the treeless, I bought it for a young pony that still had a couple of years of growth to go. He'd already outgrown one saddle and I thought that if he went OK in the treeless it would solve the problem of growing out of saddles and having to keep replacing them. He has been ridden in a treed saddle also, and he doesn't go any differently in it than a treeless, IMO.
I suppose it depends what sort of riding you want to do. Lots of galloping and jumping may well require a tree as the rider would be in the stirrups more, but for someone like me who spends most of her time ambling about in the countryside admiring the view, I don't see that the stirrups would cause any pressure, most of my weight is on the seat part of the saddle, rather than bearing down on the stirrups.
 
Hi

thanks for all your replies -

For the people who don't like the treeless saddles - is part of the reason that you don't like them (i do hear all your reasons) - but do you also see them as a "happy hacker" saddle? and not something that a "serious" rider would use?

For the pro-treeless - has anyone broken a youngster in a treeless and then swapped to a tree'd saddle?

on my old horse I use a treeless - for flatwork and hacking - but am about to take on an unbroken youngster - and now trying to decide whether to start him with the treeless, or whether it would be better to start him with a tree'd saddle, and then swap to the treeless once he has gone over the basics?

Potentially I may want the youngster to jump in the future - which (if he is any good!!) may necessitate a tree'd saddle.

THanks for all your help everyone!
 
I sat on Chancer using Cairo's treed saddle - it was a little wide but had a thick pad underneath. When I started to do more than sit and a 2 min walk I bought my treeless. I wanted to have a saddle that should fit fine and not need replacing every few months - he has changed shape so much already. Cairo liked the treeless saddle so much, I have never used the treed on him again.

A horse that has been backed properly should accept any correct fitting saddle. I have used western, side saddle, treed and treeless on Cairo - just put in on and off we went. I have done the same with my previous cob mare.

I did the same with Chancer, put on the treeless and got onboard and rode him.

Normally the only time that you can get problems is where a horse has been ridden in a badly fitting treed saddle and associates the way if feels with discomfort.
 
I'm not pro-treeless as you can see, though I really did want to like them! I don't see them as happy hacker saddles at all, I would happily try anything in one despite the fact it didn't suit my horse. Stability and position wise I thought the Torsion was excellent and the friend I borrowed it from does novice cross country in it. She wants to do dressage in it as well but apparently its against regulations? Not sure about this bit. But I would definitely see it as a serious option, provided it suited my horse and fitted correctly. The only major downside I found was not being able to mount from the ground (plus having it pinch my tb's vagus nerve and having her drop stone dead unconscious onto a concrete yard has slightly dented my confidence in them!).
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Heather Moffatt's Fhoenix treeless saddles are excellent - and put you in a fabulous classical position. I'm not as keen on the Torison/freeform type because they don't have any form of twist. There are some endurance riders who've done long distances successfully in treeless saddles but it totally depends on the individual horse and rider combination. There can be a problem with the load from the stirrup bars as you spend a lot of time standing in your stirrups.

As for pure staying on effectiveness I've found my Fhoenix is great for sitting to bucks - as it molds to the horses back so much better than a treed saddle in those situations - but not as good for spooks because of the lack of a twist you can't wrap your legs round the horses quite as much.
 
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