Trevor Morse Article in Telegraph

[combat_claire]

I couldn't believe it when a friend sent me a link to an article published in the Telegraph over the weekend.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/co...battle-between-hunts-and-anti-hunt-lobby.html

This portrays the members of Protect Our Wild Animals as martyrs to their cause, which coming less than a week after the murder of Trevor Morse is insensitive in the extreme.

The anti-hunting lobby do not love the countryside as this article suggests, but appear more to hate the people that live and work within it.

The Telegraph should apologise to the family of Trevor Morse forthwith.

I have started a post on 'My Telegraph' blog page, which people may leave comments on:

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/fitz_foxhunter

 

[Dogstar]

I agree 100%. Usually I am relaxed about biased articles as they are just telling one side of the story, however I thought this one was very strange and distasteful. It's obviously wrong to shove someone in a ditch with one's horse; but any normal human being would agree it's a whole different ball park to killing someone with a gyrocopter! The article also made out these were a 'new respectable breed' of antis but they are the same offensive people who have harrassed hunts for years.

 

[Scratchline]

Thankyou for providing the link to a very interesting article. I see you make no comment about the actual introduction but that of course covers the violence directed toward monitors by some pretty nasty louts on horseback.
Already on a suspended sentence for violence, dear Marlesy once more took the law into his own agresive hands and was described in court as an "arrogant, cowardly, drunken lout", was he not?!

Perhaps before all the facts are known about poor Trevor's death you should consider this. It isnt up to the Telegraph to apologise to his family. Nor is it IMO the responsibility of anyone else yet to apologise to his family.
There is only one person who should apologise for the hurt and distress he has caused them and sadly Trevor is dead so he cannot, its too late.
Just as Marles did, Trevor obviously took the law into his own hands as many of the hunting fraternity will no doubt also do in the future. He shouldnt have been near the gyrocopter and should have left any 'confrontation', to those not daft enough to risk their own lives. Whatever the outcome he died because of his own stupidity. Sadly, that doesnt make it any less sad and distressing for all involved.

One thing is for sure. The 'sport', that many of you on both sides get so angry and nasty over really isnt worth the loss of life. Both sides are to blame yet are simply not prepared to see it and throw accusations at the other.

A pathetic situation and Trevor died and left his loved ones for pathetic reasons. Stupidity killed him, he didnt die "doing something he loved", as many would have us believe!

 

[Scratchline]

It's obviously wrong to shove someone in a ditch with one's horse; but any normal human being would agree it's a whole different ball park to killing someone with a gyrocopter!

In BOTH cases the 'hunter', made the move on the anti, true?

And funny enough, shoving someone into a ditch with a horse could have easily caused death or serious harm so maybe you shouldnt just brush it aside. Any "normal human being", would NOT have acted as either Trevor or Marles did in actual fact!

 

[jrp204]

So every person who is murdered should apologise to their families, you talk some tosh. Who said he took the law into his own hands? In one breath the accidental deaths of the 2 hunt sabs are shouted about - do you not consider them to be taking the law into their own hands but when Trevor (don't forget someone has been charged with murder) is in the wrong place at the wrong time he is 'stupid'. I will not condon 'dear Marlesy's' behaviour, but think on when you shove cameras in peoples faces and are abusive towards people working within the law 'cause and effect' good behaviour should work at all levels.

 

[Dogstar]

Scratchline, you are obviously struggling to stay in touch with reality here. The police clearly do not think Trevor was the author of his own misfortune, they think he was murdered by an anti, hence the charge.

 

[Scratchline]

So every person who is murdered should apologise to their families, you talk some tosh.

Where have I said that? A court has not decided what happened so at this point he was not 'murdered'.

Who said he took the law into his own hands? He went to 'confront the pilot'.


In one breath the accidental deaths of the 2 hunt sabs are shouted about - do you not consider them to be taking the law into their own hands

Yes, I do. I have not mentioned them, now you know how I feel not how you guessed I may feel about their deaths.

but when Trevor (don't forget someone has been charged with murder) is in the wrong place at the wrong time he is 'stupid'.

I do not believe for one second that Trevor was in the wrong place at the wrong time! I do not condone his murder if that is what it was. But I also believe he very definately chose to confront the pilot and stupidly did so whilst he was still in the gyrocopter. If that isnt completely lunatic behaviour then I do not know what is.

I will not condon 'dear Marlesy's' behaviour, but think on when you shove cameras in peoples faces and are abusive towards people working within the law 'cause and effect' good behaviour should work at all levels.

So you do condone it when cameras are involved? I do not condone violence whatsoever toward others who are NOT breaking the law. It seems you probably do

 

[combat_claire]

I don't know the facts of either case well enough to comment. I just feel the timing of such an article, linking the two events is insensitive. I also note that you have made up your mind about what happened on Wednesday without the benefit of hearing any evidence, some of us at least are keeping an open mind regarding who was to blame.

I totally agree that this is not an issue worth dying for, I regret the deaths of Tom Worby & Mike Hill as much as I do that of Trevor Morse, as far as I am concerned three deaths in this argument is three too many.

 

[Scratchline]

Scratchline, you are obviously struggling to stay in touch with reality here. The police clearly do not think Trevor was the author of his own misfortune, they think he was murdered by an anti, hence the charge.

As that charge has not yet been proven perhaps you are missing the point about reality. However, he would not have died had he stayed away from the gyrocopter and pilot. If the pilot was doing wrong that is up to the authorities to deal with. Not one of the hunt followers. Unless you wish to suggest also that Trevor just happened to be in the same place by accident?!

 

[Scratchline]

I don't know the facts of either case well enough to comment. I just feel the timing of such an article, linking the two events is insensitive.

I believe it was bound to bring about discussion from all sides due to its serious nature.

I also note that you have made up your mind about what happened on Wednesday without the benefit of hearing any evidence, some of us at least are keeping an open mind regarding who was to blame.

I have an open mind about the actual death. What I do believe is that Trevor should not have been anywhere near that vehicle in the first place.

I totally agree that this is not an issue worth dying for, I regret the deaths of Tom Worby & Mike Hill as much as I do that of Trevor Morse, as far as I am concerned three deaths in this argument is three too many.

I agree 100%

 

[jrp204]

So, it is your decision as to who breaks the law?
I do not condone violence at any level but you do have to realise that some peoples actions can appear to be threatening whether they are pro or anti, and peoples responses to those actions are not always appropriate.
Actually you did say 'Trevor obviously took the law into his own hands'.
'There is only one person who should apologise for the hurt and distress he has caused them and sadly Trevor is dead so he cannot, its too late' . As things stand a man has been charged with murder, until it is proved otherwise, Trevor has been murdered. so i will stand by my comment.

 

[MontyandZoom]

This is outrageously one-sided. I have to say that as a London-born self-confessed 'townie' I was often taken in by articles like this and always viewed people who hunted as monocle-wearing toffs. However, since the ban (and not really understanding what it was all about) I have been hunting a couple of times. What a wonderful friendly bunch!! The antis however, followed us round the woods in balaclavas carrying sticks. They shouted the C word continously and one even jumped out infront of me at full gallop (luckily it was on the side where pony has a missing eye so she didn't spook and the sab was nearly run over). The article is completely inappropriate and biased.

Scratchline - I am disgusted by your posts over the last week. You are making yourself look like a fool.

 

[Scratchline]

So, it is your decision as to who breaks the law? No it is not nor have I suggested that is the case. That is a job best left to proffessionals. Very well illustrated by this case

Actually you did say 'Trevor obviously took the law into his own hands'.
'There is only one person who should apologise for the hurt and distress he has caused them and sadly Trevor is dead so he cannot, its too late' . As things stand a man has been charged with murder, until it is proved otherwise, Trevor has been murdered. so i will stand by my comment.

As shall I. Again, I do not believe for one second that Trevor was in the gyrocopters area by accident. If he was then proven to have been murdered I will also condem that action. As yet, that has not been proven.

 

[Scratchline]

Scratchline - I am disgusted by your posts over the last week. You are making yourself look like a fool. [/quote]

Maybe you would like to point out where I have made myself look like a fool? This is a public forum and I have posted nothing more than honest and true opinion. Best you continue to make yourself be disgusted by my posts save looking closer to home for aggression and personal attacks simply because someone offers a different opinion to others. Are only the truelly biased 'pro group', allowed to post on this forum?!

Me thinks not.

 

[jrp204]

"I do not condone violence whatsoever toward others who are NOT breaking the law." somewhat suggests it is YOUR decision as to who is breaking the law.

 

[Girlracer]

Scratchline, i have been disgusted by both yours and a few other members posts over the last week since this tragic accident. Whether your anti or pro more respect should be given for both Trevor and his greiving family. Now it seems this horrible insensitivity many people seem to posess has spread to national newspaper as well.

A member of the warwickshire hunt who knew Trevor very well came out with the North Cotswolds on saturday, i spoke to her for a very long time. It's obvious Trevor was a much loved and respected man and is seriously missed. Family and friends do not want to hear the things people are saying. So far on this forum i've heard "he deserved it" "it's his own fault" "he started it". Quite frankly i think your stupid to presume what happened.

All we know is the police have arrested and charged a man of murder on the basis of a video the passenger of the gyrocopter took.

You were not there so do not specualte.

I am completely pro, and hunt quite a lot. If a hunt supporter was charged with murdering a hunt monitor i would be sickened by that supporters actions. I do not wish to stoop to the low actions some people act out in pursuit of their belief, it's dow n right immature and ridiculous.

Now please show some respect and grow up, this isn't an argument that needs to be had.

 

[jrp204]

"If a hunt supporter was charged with murdering a hunt monitor i would be sickened by that supporters actions. I do not wish to stoop to the low actions some people act out in pursuit of their belief, it's dow n right immature and ridiculous."
I'm in complete agreement with this statement, well put.

 

[lastrebel]

Scratchline, I think your wasting your time trying talk sense to these idiots. the simple truth is they will defend there right to kill animals to the last. Please don't think everyone in the countryside acts like them there are lots decent farmers and horse riders out there.
My partner always shouts at me as I normaly speed up for horses ( I know I shouldnt but I do find myself tarring them all with same brush). when I go out on a hunt I dress like they do and often converse with them, the truth is they really don't see what they are doing wrong. Ignorance is bliss but its not a defense.

 

[jrp204]

For someone who claims to think there are decent horse people in the countryside and then admits to speeding up past them actually shows your true colours. You and your mate should go and have a balaclava party together rather than spout your drivel on here. No one is against reasoned discussion but you are unable to do this. Ignorance is bliss, you must have had lots of practice.

 

[MontyandZoom]

The fact that it is your honest opinion does nothing to change the fact that MY opinion is that you're an idiot. As you say, this is an open forum and I shall freely express my opinion that you are an idiot without having to justify it. Please do not presume to know anything about my character or accuse me of being aggressive.

'Scratchline, I think your wasting your time trying talk sense to these idiots. the simple truth is they will defend there right to kill animals to the last.'

I have NEVER defended killing an animal. I have only hunted recently and it was trail hunting. My comments on this thread are to do with the fact that, regardless of the circumstances and whether it was a pro or an anti, someone has died in the most horrible way and people like Scratchline think that it is appropriate to post disrespectful comments.

 

[combat_claire]

If the pilot was doing wrong that is up to the authorities to deal with. Not one of the hunt followers.

I believe that the repeated buzzing of the hunt by the gyrocopter had been reported to the Civil Aviation Authority several weeks prior to this incident, at the time of the death no action had been taken by the CAA.

 

[the watcher]

'My partner always shouts at me as I normaly speed up for horses ( I know I shouldnt but I do find myself tarring them all with same brush).'

And presumably you consider yourself to be an animal lover?

 

[lastrebel]

I know one thing, I keep making spelling mistakes.
Animal lover, yes but I'll defend anyone or anything thats being attacked for no reason. I hate bullies.

 

[Girlracer]

"My partner always shouts at me as i normally speed up for horses (i know i shouldn't but i do find myself tarring them all with the same brush)."

"And presumably you consider yourself to be an animal lover"

Exactly. Only works one way apparently.

 

[Scratchline]

"I do not condone violence whatsoever toward others who are NOT breaking the law." somewhat suggests it is YOUR decision as to who is breaking the law.

No. It suggests I do not condone violence to others who are acting legally. Knowing or understanding what is or isnt illegal, is that wrong now? PMSL

 

[MontyandZoom]

No. It suggests I do not condone violence to others who are acting legally. Knowing or understanding what is or isnt illegal, is that wrong now? PMSL

I don't pretend to know very much about hunting, but how many hunting convictions have there actually been where people have been proven to be breaking the law?

 

[Scratchline]

With all due respect this is a public forum for people to discuss with others. A thread has been started on this subject and unless you are suggesting wrongly that only the opinion of some is allowed may I suggest you take this up with the person who started the thread.

I have based my opinion on what I have learned of the case so far and have only commented on that and nothing more. As long as others discuss this case I believe I have every right to offer my own opinion. Dont like it, dont read it. That being your choice.

 

[combat_claire]

No. It suggests I do not condone violence to others who are acting legally. Knowing or understanding what is or isnt illegal, is that wrong now? PMSL

I don't pretend to know very much about hunting, but how many hunting convictions have there actually been where people have been proven to be breaking the law?

One with the Minehead Harriers and one for coursing which is likely to be appealed.
The antis like to trumpet how many convictions there have made under the Hunting Act, but the fact is that 99% were covered under existing poaching laws prior to February 2005.

The Heythrop case has been thrown out by the CPS, the Exmoor case was appealed successfully, with two others on hold while they try and sort out the dog's breakfast of legislation that parliament passed.

 

[combat_claire]

Incidentally anyone who deliberately and recklessly speeds past any animal in their car doesn't deserve to retain their license. Don't you realise what injuries you could cause to both horse and rider if you spooked them.

 

[Girlracer]

Perhaps Scratchline you should be prepared to be more respectful and mature in discussing your views. You have every right to your views but no right to be dis-respectful and hurtful to those of us who's views differ from your own.

I mean i'm 17 and there have been a fair few members i feel acting even less mature than myself.

I respect those who don't agree with hunting, however i do not respect those who don't agree with hunting and then torment, dis-respect and act aggresivley toward those people who's livelihood is hunting. And to be honest, half the time the facts of hunting that people like yourselfs blat around are actually your own assumptions and not even slightly true.