Trialing a treeless dressage saddle...

Sol

Sol

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I thought seeing as people always seem to be interested in them, but there rarely seem to be many photos of them in use... photo overload! :) Plus how I'm getting on with the thing!

I've been very lucky to borrow a Fhoenix Vogue dressage saddle ( http://www.fhoenix-saddles.com/vogue.php ) from a friend, for a week! :D So I'm putting it to the test quite thoroughly. We've schooled in it 3 times now, and I plan to hack tomorrow and if the arena is okay on Monday may even pop a small jump :eek:

I was very happy first of all today that Dan didn't flinch when I popped the saddle on - something he started doing in the saddle we were using occasionally until I could buy one (fitted better than my own!), took this as a good sign. He's still funny about walking to the mounting block but always has been - I think personally he just chooses to be a tad awkward about this.

Some photos anyway. These are actually stills from a video as photos weren't going too well, and my boyfriend (who videoed) was hiding in the feed room out of the rain as it was pouring down non-stop. Can't blame him! :p Also started after we'd warmed up hence starting with canter photos!
Close up of the saddle in use...
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I really need to work on getting my hands out in front of me in canter - better in trot now but I still tend to bring them back for canter and fix my wrists. Also have a terrible habit of holding the left rein when it's the inside as Dan refuses to accept signals from the right rein, so he had a bit of a tantrum about this.
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Tantrum!
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Good pony :)
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Bit of leg yield (found out how awkward it is trying to do it across the short side!)
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Overall I've found that although there is no miraculous sort of improvement in Dan's way of going, he hasn't suddenly turned into the next Totilas ;) but he has seemed far more rideable. Tantrums of sorts (bucking, kicking out, refusing to go forwards or stop!) are not uncommon normally, but I've found him more willing to accept my leg, slightly more forwards going (maintaining the pace better), and downwards transitions are MUCH better! I think trot... he trots! :eek: Normally it's 'trot... trot... are we trotting? Trot please. TROT!' *rush, fall over, rush, panic, ahhh oh no I'm trotting!* or something like that :rolleyes: :o Oddly I also feel like I can get my leg on better and go with the movement whereas normally it feels like I'm just bobbing about rather than doing anything useful which is not what I expected!
Another bonus? It hasn't given me any aches or pains yet :D

So, at the moment, it looks like I will probably invest in one of these :) Sadly I can't afford one at the minute and secondhand ones seem to be extinct :p But it's so, so comfortable and Dante seems happy enough so far!

I don't mind CC on the photos btw but I am working on certain things that will be noticeable in the photos, and at the sec seeing as I am saving for a saddle I am rarely having lessons. :) It's interesting though to see if anyone points out anything that may be effected by the saddle...

Choccie pennies if you got to the end!
Sol x
 
your main position looks good in those pics - what saddle do you normally ride in (ie dressage/gp etc)
How do the stirrup bar positions compare?
It does look very smart and he looks to be having fun in it :p
 
He looks really really good!
I just noticed one thing though- does the saddle feel like its pushing you out of the saddle? Cos in some pics it seems like its causing you to not really sit into it and had a look at the closeup and seems higher at the back which is tipping you forwards a bit? may just be me though but I had never noticed in past pics of you schooling in your other saddle. Then again the seat size does look rather large so maybe getting a smaller one would help :)
 
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If you join either the Enlightened Equitation or Heather Moffett facebook page they come up on there. The stirrup bars on the dressage are well back so you must be careful that you allow the saddle to put you in position and don't try to bring your legs back at all. The leather treed synthetic will be available soon at a very reasonable £349 so this could be an option until you could afford a Fheonix?
 
Very interesting! I have been looking at these too :) Kathy, when you say the leather treed synthetic, could you expand a bit please? Maybe I need to lay off the mulled wine, but you've lost me :confused: are they imitation leather type synthetic? And they're the fhoenix equivalent? That might just suit me :)

J&C
 
Pictures and details here. There will also be a leather version starting at approx £800 but I don't know at the moment when they will be available. The stirrup bars on the dressage are not quite as "set back" as on the Fheonix so will be easier for people with tight hips to ride in.

http://berginequine.com/node/229
 
JessandCharlie said:
Very interesting! I have been looking at these too :) Kathy, when you say the leather treed synthetic, could you expand a bit please? Maybe I need to lay off the mulled wine, but you've lost me :confused: are they imitation leather type synthetic? And they're the fhoenix equivalent? That might just suit me :)

J&C
Click to expand...

Just re-read you post and got what you meant (and I have not even had any booze today :p) Both the leather and the synthetic have a leather tree so they are flexible. There is a picture of the tree on the link I posted,
 
coss said:
your main position looks good in those pics - what saddle do you normally ride in (ie dressage/gp etc)
How do the stirrup bar positions compare?
It does look very smart and he looks to be having fun in it :p
Click to expand...

Dressage, though the stirrup bars are definitely more set back than any I've ridden in before.
Hmm, yes, will agree with that!! :p
 
BooM said:
I looks very smart - I simply admire you for riding in that deluge!
Click to expand...

haha, thanks! Did regret leaving my lovely long Musto coat at home afterwards!! :o :p

rowy said:
He looks really really good!
I just noticed one thing though- does the saddle feel like its pushing you out of the saddle? Cos in some pics it seems like its causing you to not really sit into it and had a look at the closeup and seems higher at the back which is tipping you forwards a bit? may just be me though but I had never noticed in past pics of you schooling in your other saddle. Then again the seat size does look rather large so maybe getting a smaller one would help :)
Click to expand...

It doesn't feel like it is, I think it's more noticeable in the canter? But I think it's more my riding than the saddle :o I find his canter quite 'busy' sometimes and need to go with it more still (think lots more work without stirrups in the NY!)
Sadly they don't come any smaller, although it doesn't actually feel as large as most saddles do (It's a 17").
I think I actually lean forwards a lot more in the Albion I was borrowing...
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funnily one of the issues that the saddle fitter pointed out when she came & I tried an Ideal was that Dan's actually built more uphill than I realised and most saddles go the other way & sit too low behind! If I did go for one of these I would have a fitter out to check it all out :)

Kathyt1 said:
If you join either the Enlightened Equitation or Heather Moffett facebook page they come up on there. The stirrup bars on the dressage are well back so you must be careful that you allow the saddle to put you in position and don't try to bring your legs back at all. The leather treed synthetic will be available soon at a very reasonable £349 so this could be an option until you could afford a Fheonix?
Click to expand...

Ooh, I shall take a look :) I would rather not buy a saddle 'in the mean time' as I'm already stuck with one that I cant sell and part of my money tied up in that :( May be worth a look though, thanks :)

JessandCharlie said:
Very interesting! I have been looking at these too :) Kathy, when you say the leather treed synthetic, could you expand a bit please? Maybe I need to lay off the mulled wine, but you've lost me :confused: are they imitation leather type synthetic? And they're the fhoenix equivalent? That might just suit me :)

J&C
Click to expand...

I first looked at them years ago and wish I'd really looked into it sooner! :rolleyes: :)
 
Am looking at the new dressage saddle, I like the concept, especially with a youngster, who will continue to change shape for a while yet, so I think the leather tree would allow for that more than a conventional tree. I worry about pressure from the stirrup bars though, but having never even sat on a treeless, I don't know if this is an issue. Hmmmm.

I also love Dan :)

J&C
 
Looking at the albion, I think that looks higher at the back as well if you look at where the cantle and pommel is. I think its this which is causing you to tip forward. Its probably the way he is built as you said. The good thing with treeless is that you can put front or back risers in without causing any pressure points where the tree would have dug in :)
 
JessandCharlie said:
Am looking at the new dressage saddle, I like the concept, especially with a youngster, who will continue to change shape for a while yet, so I think the leather tree would allow for that more than a conventional tree. I worry about pressure from the stirrup bars though, but having never even sat on a treeless, I don't know if this is an issue. Hmmmm.

I also love Dan :)

J&C
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I was very pleased when I removed the Vogue that there were basically NO pressure marks (at all!) on his back. I did think it might be possible to see where the stirrups bars must have been, but I've ridden him for fairly long schooling sessions in it now & there's no sign of any pressure! Maybe not completely reliable but seems a good sign

Thank you! :D

rowy said:
Looking at the albion, I think that looks higher at the back as well if you look at where the cantle and pommel is. I think its this which is causing you to tip forward. Its probably the way he is built as you said. The good thing with treeless is that you can put front or back risers in without causing any pressure points where the tree would have dug in :)
Click to expand...

I think the Albion sit higher at the back because it doesn't fit at the front anymore! :o He's changed shape again apparently since he had some time off over the summer (it did fit nicely when we started using it!) hence trying not to use it now. At least this is the general gist I got from the saddle fitter? He is an awkward one! :rolleyes:
 
I have the GP version of this saddle and I absolutely addooorree it! It does take a little while to get used to the feel of it and the position it puts you in so it will be a little while I imagine before you notice a massive difference, but believe me it is totally worth it!
I cant even put into words the difference I've experienced in my horse since I've been riding in my treeless, its been like having a different horse!
 
I have one of these that maybe for sale. I am reluctantly thinking about selling it..the horrors of buying a house :/

I bought it for my horse which, I sadly had to sell earlier in the year. He was very one sided (even after copious amounts of schooling) in his shoulder. This meant that all the treed saddles I tried would twist and end up sitting on his spine. Mine didn't feel to good after hacking in saddles likes that either. So first of all I got a barefoot then I moved on to this so I could do some dressage tests. I love the saddle and because of it's ability to fit anything am loathed to get rid of it. The only problem I ever had was because of it's set back stirrup bars after a gap in riding (about 6 months) it really hurt my legs :( other than that I love it.
 
Nijdypie said:
I have the GP version of this saddle and I absolutely addooorree it! It does take a little while to get used to the feel of it and the position it puts you in so it will be a little while I imagine before you notice a massive difference, but believe me it is totally worth it!
I cant even put into words the difference I've experienced in my horse since I've been riding in my treeless, its been like having a different horse!
Click to expand...

I didn't even find it all that strange! First rising trot was a little 'oooh, this is erm, bouncy!' obviously where when you have your weight fully in the stirrups, the whole thing flexes down with your weight rather than always being against one place... but within two circuits I'd forgot about that, it just felt lovely! :D I'm even considering saving up (slowly!) for the GP or a similar treeless style jump saddle so we can pop some fences again :p
 
PeggyPatch said:
I have one of these that maybe for sale. I am reluctantly thinking about selling it..the horrors of buying a house :/

I bought it for my horse which, I sadly had to sell earlier in the year. He was very one sided (even after copious amounts of schooling) in his shoulder. This meant that all the treed saddles I tried would twist and end up sitting on his spine. Mine didn't feel to good after hacking in saddles likes that either. So first of all I got a barefoot then I moved on to this so I could do some dressage tests. I love the saddle and because of it's ability to fit anything am loathed to get rid of it. The only problem I ever had was because of it's set back stirrup bars after a gap in riding (about 6 months) it really hurt my legs :( other than that I love it.
Click to expand...

I am really hoping that if I do get a second horse at some stage this can be used on him/her! would certainly be helpful, not to mention I'm quite sick of the hassle of saddle fitters coming out and either doing a poor fitting or telling me I need this brand new £2000 saddle... :eek:
I have sent you a PM just incase you do have to sell, as I am still on the hunt for one!
 
Unless you have familiarised yourself with a particular saddle it is really hard to tell how well it is balanced, from ridden pics. I know my saddles and know how they should look when the "sweet spot" is flat and level, but all saddles are different. I think the slight issue with this, and many treeless, is that the slope up to the cantle tends to be a little straight, not nicely convex like a treed saddle. It means there is no natural scoop to sit the buttocks into and the pelvis can easily be tipped forwards. I agree that this looks like an issue with this treeless for this horse and rider combo, and that lifting the pommel may be worth a try. As you have said, using a fitter initially is a very good idea.
 
I have an early HM saddle and love it, I recommend it to a anyone who is willing to listen to me wittering on about it!!! I have the GP version and jump in it, it is not as easy to do sitting trot initially due to the bouncy seat but I soon got used to it :) :) :) :)
 
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