Tricky 4.5 Year Old

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Chloe..x

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Hi everyone

Looking for some advice really. I was sold a "green" ISH gelding at the start of summer and he was going really well for the first month then I took a tumble but was knocked out so have no recollection of the fall. He then went really well again for the next 6 weeks then on Thursday he went from 0-60 in 5 seconds and did an almighty buck so I was catapulted and really hurt my back.

Following the first fall, I had everything checked and everything was ok. I know young horses have baby moments but it was a real vicious get off me buck and I stood no chance.

I feel like how much is too much, what will happen next? I've got back in touch with his breeders who were really nice but aren't in the position to take him back.

What next?
 
This is sort of part of the package with young horses, some will be more reactive than others of course, but you have to be ready for the odd hop, buck and skip. If you're not able to sit his little "offerings" and not keen on getting dumped, then I'd suggest a spell at a good pro trainers for some good boot camp-type re-installation of the basics ("thou shall not dump mummy" sort of thing). I'm getting past the whole young horse thing myself and shall be passing that duty on to younger, more bounceable colleagues in the future.
 
He's a baby horse who is going to be green and is going to have moments.
Tbh I wouldn't take a horse back I sold as a 4 year old as I would expect the person buying to understand it's a young horse so won't be predictable and will need time.

I wouldn't worry personally and would just get back on but wear a back protector if nervous. You need to be confident so he reads this from you; if you're nervous then he'll pick up on that and react accordingly. All horses have their moments - my very sensible safe bill went from 0-60 last week in arena because he suddenly spotted a calf in the Gully beside arena! You can put a neck strap on and keep one hand on it, and at 4 it would be sensible anyway. It probably wasn't vicious it could potentially have been because he was being asked to do something he wasn't able to do and that was his way of saying no.

If he hasn't done it in 6 weeks and you've had everything checked then I wouldn't worry too much, count the good days over the bad days and everything seems much better :)
 
I've had 4 year olds before so I dont know if he's just a particularly sensitive soul. I ride with a neck strap but even with this he's still managed to dump me. He wasn't even being asked to do anything tasking, I'd been on for about 60 seconds and all we were doing was walking in the same way we start every session.

I was having a lesson when this happened and my instructor was the one who said "I'd love to see someone who could have sat to that". I thought about sending him to someone for a few weeks but at 160p/w I don't think I can do it.
 
That's the thing with the babies, you are never 100% sure what you are going to get.
As an average amateur I think you always need a 'what if it's sharp' back up plan should you buy a 4yo. you'd be worth investing in some professional help
 
Chloe..x said:
I've had 4 year olds before so I dont know if he's just a particularly sensitive soul. I ride with a neck strap but even with this he's still managed to dump me. He wasn't even being asked to do anything tasking, I'd been on for about 60 seconds and all we were doing was walking in the same way we start every session.

I was having a lesson when this happened and my instructor was the one who said "I'd love to see someone who could have sat to that". I thought about sending him to someone for a few weeks but at 160p/w I don't think I can do it.
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Whilst I agree that youngster are very unpredictable and you have to expect some bucks etc with them, it does sound like your boy had a reaction to pain or fright. Have you had his saddle checked very recently as he will be changing shape weekly? When were his teeth last done (again, youngsters need the dentist every 6 months or so)? If both these checks are okay, then I would get a vet to check him over. I don't tend to go straight to physios for these things as I find they miss a whole lot of things.

If everything is fine, then I would always make sure you lunge him for a few minutes before getting on. I find many youngsters will make use of this to get rid of excess energy and then work nicely afterwards.

ETA Just seen you do lunge him before riding. He does sound sharp, but this bolt and buck behaviour could be a pain response.
 
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Wagtail said:
Whilst I agree that youngster are very unpredictable and you have to expect some bucks etc with them, it does sound like your boy had a reaction to pain or fright. Have you had his saddle checked very recently as he will be changing shape weekly? When were his teeth last done (again, youngsters need the dentist every 6 months or so). If both these checks are okay, then I would get a vet to check him over. I don't tend to go straight to physios for these things as I find they miss a whole lot of things.
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His teeth were done mid September and only needed a rasp. Saddle was last checked 8 weeks ago so I suppose I could get it checked again to be safe. Vet was out for his jab 2 weeks ago and did a bit of an all over check and wasn't worried by anything.
 
Air jackets are really good. I got deposited 2 weeks ago in a stuble field (by my 15 years old who should know better!) and it felt like falling on a mattress.
They are expensive but I got mine at a discount saddlery for a good price and there is also ebay/preloved.
 
I had a think about saddle fit but he doesn't shy away from tack and doesn't react when he's on the lunge and as I say it's only now and again too
 
My young mare is pretty chunky but when she bucks she comes up in front and really throws herself into it. I'm just getting her a new saddle because it turned out my old one had a problem that was probably causing her pain (despite being new & refitted not long ago). She never reacted on the lunge & was fine for 90% of the time I was riding but when she dumped me 3 weeks ago she'd just spooked at a deer and I think spook combined with saddle caused an 'ow' & triggered the rodeo act. My back is still stuffed :-(
 
Don't give up. Ride in a body protector and air jacket (I do this on my youngster). If you don't feel confident getting back on right now then do some ground work/long lining/lunging. When you do get back on do it in an arena with your instructor holding onto a lunge line attached to the bridle. Take baby steps in building you confidence. Maybe see if there is a good local rider who doesn't mind getting on for the first few rides just to get the horse going.
On a side note - Might be worth getting him checked for ulcers. My youngster went from angel to demon horse for no apparent reason and it turned out he had grade 3 ulcers. Now treated he is much better but I had to go through all of this after he decked me on concrete and scared me. It has taken a while to get my confidence back with him and he still has his moments but is 100% better than he was. Today was a key example but bless him he was upset by idiotic drivers that caused a mini melt down (he seemed to lose his ability to move his legs and got a little 'stuck in the mud' which led to some explosiveness from halts for the last 5 mins of the hack but apart from that he was good as gold and we had actually had a lovely hack up until then.
Things will get better, just remember he is only a baby and they do have their moments! I have to keep telling myself this to stop myself from over reacting when he has a moment as I am so used to my cool as a cucumber mare who never puts a foot out of line!
 
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Eight weeks can see a lot of change in shape, particularly if in regular work, in a youngster, that is why we bought solution saddles for ours. I would suspect that saddle fit is the cause of the bucking.
 
For your safety and confidence I agree that you should invest in an air jacket - we bought my daughter one as soon as her youngster was backed and she wears it all the time. I would also add a monkey strap to your saddle - I put one on my saddle when I first bought my horse years ago and he liked to pogo. It gave me something to hang onto and I was able to lean back when he did so (I found grabbing a neck strap made me lean forward)
 
I wouldnt say one or 2 incidents make a horse 'tricky', it is just what horses who arent established do. A lot of horses, when newly broken, are well behaved as they are unsure of what is happening. It is when they start to get a bit confident they start to mess around a bit. Shooting off, especially if they catch something out of the corner of their eye, is common. The they often buck because theyve given themselves a fright, instinct kicks in and they go into 'panic mode'. I doubt he was 'viciously bucking to get you off', horses dont think like that. It was just instinct after a scare, or maybe you got unbalanced, this scares some horses.
Lunge him if he seems a bit fresh, and just take it steadily for now. Try not to get unbalanced, or tense up, a horse is more likely to buck from canter than trot.
Also give him something to think about- trotting poles, random poles to walk over, this kind of thing.
Dont worry about 'what might happen', concentrate on the good things,look back I bbet you will have come further than you think.
 
Only 2 falls off a 4yo? You're doing grand!

As everyone says they are tricky. They grow quickly too and in odd places so saddle that fit 12 weeks ago, may not fit anymore. I've adjusted mine a fair few times in the last year. Saddles also feel very different to a young horse between walk and trot and canter so it can be comfortable one minute and pinchy or bumpy the next.

Listen, think about what went wrong, make adjustments and get back on and try not to push too hard, too soon. Go a step back in the training and let them build up the strength. Give them a chance but equally don't give in too easily. Personally, if I have trouble in the school, I hack for a few weeks. Then come back and do something interesting in the school like trotting poles or cavaletti on/off the lunge. I try and vary it for them as much as poss. E.g. three x in the school then 3 x hack then 3 x loose/lunge/fun stuff.
 
tallyho! said:
Only 2 falls off a 4yo? You're doing grand!

As everyone says they are tricky. They grow quickly too and in odd places so saddle that fit 12 weeks ago, may not fit anymore. I've adjusted mine a fair few times in the last year. Saddles also feel very different to a young horse between walk and trot and canter so it can be comfortable one minute and pinchy or bumpy the next.

Listen, think about what went wrong, make adjustments and get back on and try not to push too hard, too soon. Go a step back in the training and let them build up the strength. Give them a chance but equally don't give in too easily. Personally, if I have trouble in the school, I hack for a few weeks. Then come back and do something interesting in the school like trotting poles or cavaletti on/off the lunge. I try and vary it for them as much as poss. E.g. three x in the school then 3 x hack then 3 x loose/lunge/fun stuff.
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Its not really the falls that bother me its just how injured i've been after them really. He's off to a pro for a week tomorrow so hopefully he will give me some sort of answer and way forward.
 
YorksG said:
Eight weeks can see a lot of change in shape, particularly if in regular work, in a youngster, that is why we bought solution saddles for ours. I would suspect that saddle fit is the cause of the bucking.
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This.

Also none of us were there so can't say why. I too have a 4yr old, mine is a big belgian draft and suprisngly he is extra forward and a cheeky sod. Just got his self confidence so I know the 'I know it all' stage won't be far behind lol

However if you really think he meant it (I've had 2 over the years that did) both were sold with full disclosure pdq

No judgement but I presume if you can't manage a few weeks schooling atm then you could get an air jacket atm. Shame I wouldn't be without mine.

What did your instructor think
 
soulfull said:
This.

Also none of us were there so can't say why. I too have a 4yr old, mine is a big belgian draft and suprisngly he is extra forward and a cheeky sod. Just got his self confidence so I know the 'I know it all' stage won't be far behind lol

However if you really think he meant it (I've had 2 over the years that did) both were sold with full disclosure pdq

No judgement but I presume if you can't manage a few weeks schooling atm then you could get an air jacket atm. Shame I wouldn't be without mine.

What did your instructor think
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She said it was a buck that was a "get off my back" type of buck with every intention of getting me off. The man came out to see him today and said he is very quick but he will work with him for a week.

I do find it strange that he was fed on Red Mills Cooked in Ireland which is oats. I feed him on Alfa A as I did try cool mix and he was still hot on that.
 
I'd take him off all bucket feed as well. Alfa A can whizz up some horses, mine get Hi Fi Molasses Free and Speedibeet only. You can slowly introduce feed again if he really needs it.
 
cavalo branco said:
I'd take him off all bucket feed as well. Alfa A can whizz up some horses, mine get Hi Fi Molasses Free and Speedibeet only. You can slowly introduce feed again if he really needs it.
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I have two mares who cannot tolerate alfalfa at all and there are many out there who can't cope with it. I would take his diet back to forage only and work from there.
 
YorksG said:
I have two mares who cannot tolerate alfalfa at all and there are many out there who can't cope with it. I would take his diet back to forage only and work from there.
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Strange. Pretty much every horse I've known has been fed on it. He is on a forage only diet now to see if feed is the problem. All trial and error isn't it.
 
My young lad who is 17 hands, is often bolting and broncing in the school. Albeit 100% better than when I first bought him. Teeth done. Saddle fitted. It's just his age. Being a bit of a prat, testing the waters. Plus is an anxious type who worries. One minute we are trotting along very nicely then the head comes up and he literally takes off and broncs. I have a fab dresssge instructor, he tells me to ignore the behaviour and after his explosion, just carry on as if nothing happened. Shame I can't post the videos!
 
exracehorse said:
My young lad who is 17 hands, is often bolting and broncing in the school. Albeit 100% better than when I first bought him. Teeth done. Saddle fitted. It's just his age. Being a bit of a prat, testing the waters. Plus is an anxious type who worries. One minute we are trotting along very nicely then the head comes up and he literally takes off and broncs. I have a fab dresssge instructor, he tells me to ignore the behaviour and after his explosion, just carry on as if nothing happened. Shame I can't post the videos!
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Have you x rayed his back? A lot of horses stoically carry kissing spines and just react when they get a sudden sharp twinge.
 
YorksG said:
I have two mares who cannot tolerate alfalfa at all and there are many out there who can't cope with it. I would take his diet back to forage only and work from there.
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Mine cannot tolerate alfafa either. It's more common than people think and exacerbates many problems. Took a lami prone horse off it and no more laminitis. Even went barefoot and 24/7 t/o. My new mare kept on abscessing and had constant hind gut issues. Not any more.

The other thing that also springs to mind about alfalfa is that if you already have pasture/forage that is high in iron OR their metabolism doesn't process it quickly enough, alfalfa tends to tip them over the balance and so this may be why some horses just don't seem to do very well on it and others are ok. (It may not be iron but another mineral could also cause it - which is why testing is generally suggested).
 
If you lunge him every time you ride, is it possible that you have gotten him too fit and he is simply feeling fit and strong?
 
DiNozzo said:
If you lunge him every time you ride, is it possible that you have gotten him too fit and he is simply feeling fit and strong?
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Depends how you lunge I suppose... sometimes it can wind a horse up, sometimes it calms them down.

See, I'd have to disagree with this widely held view that fit and strong horses are more likely to behave in unwanted ways...

Fit and strong horses, given that this buildup of muscle has been addressed with an appropriately accommodating saddle etc, *should* perform much more happily and willingly than a weak unbalanced unfit horse.
 
tallyho! said:
Depends how you lunge I suppose... sometimes it can wind a horse up, sometimes it calms them down.

See, I'd have to disagree with this widely held view that fit and strong horses are more likely to behave in unwanted ways...

Fit and strong horses, given that this buildup of muscle has been addressed with an appropriately accommodating saddle etc, *should* perform much more happily and willingly than a weak unbalanced unfit horse.
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This is my logic too. I use lungeing as he is a sharp horse so use it to take any edge of him and to calm him down as some days he comes out like a 7 year old others like a spring chicken on an ice cold morning.
 
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