Tricky 4.5 Year Old

deffo get him OFF the alfalfa! my 4yo cannot tolerate it all and becomes even sharper and hotter than he already is(he's that very reactive sort anyway).

young horse buck, rear, nap, prat around, explode for no reason-its part and parcel of them i'm afraid and you can often do little more than ride through it (provided all potential sources of pain are eliminated).

i would say im a sticky rider and ive been on my arse more than i care to remember this year but thats silly,sharp 4yo for you!
 
Hallo2012 said:
deffo get him OFF the alfalfa! my 4yo cannot tolerate it all and becomes even sharper and hotter than he already is(he's that very reactive sort anyway).

young horse buck, rear, nap, prat around, explode for no reason-its part and parcel of them i'm afraid and you can often do little more than ride through it (provided all potential sources of pain are eliminated).

i would say im a sticky rider and ive been on my arse more than i care to remember this year but thats silly,sharp 4yo for you!
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Will do, didn't realise it caused this! He's been at "boot camp" and I've had a call to say in the pessoa is was great on the left rein but an absolute idiot on the right, bucking every second stride. I'm going to get his back done by a chiropractor this Friday.
 
Update: Chiropractor fell through as the clinic was cancelled but I had the vet out and in his opinion, physically the horse is fine but i'm back to square one with him. Don't know whether to insist on getting him x-rayed through the insurance as my gut instinct is telling me something isn't right.
 
Get him off the Alfalfa. Does he really need a bucket feed at the moment? I prefer excitable youngsters to have a little less in the tank personally so if you can get away with ad lib hay and perhaps just a handful of a non-alfalfa based tea times he he kicks off when others are being fed.

Did anything happen around the arena that may have been the catalyst? One of my more explosive babies hated other horses trotting or cantering up behind him and my flying skills were tested several times due to this! So I started dragging him out there to be lunged or long reined whenever another horse was being ridden, so he could become accustomed to the fact that things will go on around him and he needs to get over it.
 
scats said:
Get him off the Alfalfa. Does he really need a bucket feed at the moment? I prefer excitable youngsters to have a little less in the tank personally so if you can get away with ad lib hay and perhaps just a handful of a non-alfalfa based tea times he he kicks off when others are being fed.

Did anything happen around the arena that may have been the catalyst? One of my more explosive babies hated other horses trotting or cantering up behind him and my flying skills were tested several times due to this! So I started dragging him out there to be lunged or long reined whenever another horse was being ridden, so he could become accustomed to the fact that things will go on around him and he needs to get over it.
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Not that I'm aware of, I got on and he had his back up then about ten strides later bolted off went half way around the arena then threw a mighty buck. He's bucked fed as it keeps him happy when others are fed in his stable block, I was thinking of trying Happy Hoof? As had a lot of recommendations about that, but literally a handful with a scoop of garlic
 
Chloe..x said:
Update: Chiropractor fell through as the clinic was cancelled but I had the vet out and in his opinion, physically the horse is fine but i'm back to square one with him. Don't know whether to insist on getting him x-rayed through the insurance as my gut instinct is telling me something isn't right.
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I'd still get a physio out. My horse trots up sound in a straight line, especially if she's got an audience. On a circle she just looks lazy as if she isn't tracking up. Under saddle she felt wrong even if it wasn't obvious to onlookers. Stick her under the care of an experienced physio though & all sorts came to light.

Not knocking the vets, but watching the physio crunch my horse and the expression on the horses face as she did it (top lip wobbling!) it was very obvious all was not ok. She's moving so much better under saddle now - I'm just hoping that doesn't mean the bucks are even more athletic!
 
ycbm said:
Or if you don't want to spend that kind of money, oat chaff or timothy hay chaff, oats, supermarket oil.
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I was going to suggest exactly the same thing! Nothing wrong with feeding straights and I haven't had a horse yet that went loopy on oats.
 
Definitely worth trying a physio/chiro - vets aren't always the best as spotting back issues. And at 4 his muscle tone will be changing. Just had my 5 year old seen by physio as he was offering some very half-hearted bucks in the school now and again - and he doesn't buck! Turns out he had quite marked tenderness on one side of his upper quarters - probably from pratting around in the field.

How much time is he spending in the school as opposed to going out hacking? From being backed at 3.5 and this spring at rising 5 mine did NOTHING except hack apart from one or two circuits of the school to get him used to being in there with other horses and looking at trotting poles. Some 4 year olds aren't mentally ready for lots of schooling.
 
Chloe..x but an absolute idiot on the right said:
This would cause me to ask vet for a lameness workup, you are paying your vet not the other way around or get a second opinion.

Agree take off all feed but just changing reins should not turn him into a devil.
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Chloe..x said:
Are you on commission or something?
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You don't need to be on commission to know mix feeds are full of fillers and molasses and that some feed companies produce pure products. As for "keeping him happy wth a bucket feed", I never understand why people feel the need to be bullied by a horse. Let him learn he doesn't get a bucket feed. Won't do him any harm at all. Horses need forage. They rarely need bucket feeds if they are described as hot.

First thing to (simply and cheaply) rule out the question is the horse high as a kite on too much feed and not enough work. If not, investigate further.
 
I'm not on commission from anyone, but would also get him off anything with alfalfa or sugar, we use Emerald Green grass nuts and chaff for all of ours, the appy''s also get magnesium and all four get added salt, oil and aloe vera juice.
 
SEL said:
I'd still get a physio out. My horse trots up sound in a straight line, especially if she's got an audience. On a circle she just looks lazy as if she isn't tracking up. Under saddle she felt wrong even if it wasn't obvious to onlookers. Stick her under the care of an experienced physio though & all sorts came to light.

Not knocking the vets, but watching the physio crunch my horse and the expression on the horses face as she did it (top lip wobbling!) it was very obvious all was not ok. She's moving so much better under saddle now - I'm just hoping that doesn't mean the bucks are even more athletic!
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He's had the physio out and she didn't pick up on anything just said some tension in his neck
 
HandBR said:
Definitely worth trying a physio/chiro - vets aren't always the best as spotting back issues. And at 4 his muscle tone will be changing. Just had my 5 year old seen by physio as he was offering some very half-hearted bucks in the school now and again - and he doesn't buck! Turns out he had quite marked tenderness on one side of his upper quarters - probably from pratting around in the field.

How much time is he spending in the school as opposed to going out hacking? From being backed at 3.5 and this spring at rising 5 mine did NOTHING except hack apart from one or two circuits of the school to get him used to being in there with other horses and looking at trotting poles. Some 4 year olds aren't mentally ready for lots of schooling.
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This is what I've been thinking the last
Few days but then my worry is that he does something when we are out hacking. I've had dentist/physio/vet and no signs of any pain.
 
I've had a lameness call out on Tuesday and vet said there was nothing to lead him to believe anything was wrong.
I've asked for x rays to be done but he said because he can't justify it, the insurance won't pay out.
 
If you've had a physio gove him the all clear, then a full vet check is the logical next step, whether the insurance covers it or not.

As a matter of interest , who checked the saddle fit? From your post on the regional boards, you are fairly local to me, and there are some fairly shockingly awful 'master saddlers/fitters' in these parts...
 
Im based in Ormskirk, I'll pm you who I had but is there any you would recommend for a second opinion?

I got a quote off the vet today and they said 564 for a back x ray? In another topic others have said they only paid 150.
 
Chloe..x said:
Im based in Ormskirk, I'll pm you who I had but is there any you would recommend for a second opinion?

I got a quote off the vet today and they said 564 for a back x ray? In another topic others have said they only paid 150.
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Shocking! Two years ago I paid a hundred pounds less than that for x rays and a full set of five injections.

And your vet won't recommend an x ray so the insurers won't pay? Change your vet, he seems to know sod all about kissing spines!
 
I've asked for him to give me a call back as receptionist wouldn't budge. I'm currently using Orrell Equine but if these won't budge I've been recommended Simon Constanbles
 
Just feed him hay Chloe, and see does that have any effect. He won't suffer without hard feed but it would be nice to see what he's like without anything egging him on in the feed.

If he's still at it, then give him to a professional you can trust for a week or two to get their appraisal.

There are tricky horses, who like getting people off, whether people like to believe that or not, they do exist. So you need to find out if he's one of them and just not suitable for you. Or maybe he's just hot and your not helping with the feed end of it.
 
Chloe..x said:
He's had the physio out and she didn't pick up on anything just said some tension in his neck
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If he has tension in his neck, there is something causing that tension. It could be that his feed is causing headaches, which mean that he is holding himself oddly, it could be KS, or it could be something completely different. I think I would want a 2nd opinion of all your professionals, to be sure that nothing has been missed, some of the ones you have used so far don't seem to be very thorough.
 
Irish gal said:
Just feed him hay Chloe, and see does that have any effect. He won't suffer without hard feed but it would be nice to see what he's like without anything egging him on in the feed.

If he's still at it, then give him to a professional you can trust for a week or two to get their appraisal.

There are tricky horses, who like getting people off, whether people like to believe that or not, they do exist. So you need to find out if he's one of them and just not suitable for you. Or maybe he's just hot and your not helping with the feed end of it.
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Completely agree! My lads complete is a bold brat but slowly getting there and professionals find him difficult but he was off hard feed until now cause he is in worked 6 days a week and its half a scoop of pony nuts until I can see what works feed wise. Your not going to crack the problem if you have a ton of variables. But good luck and its reassuring im not the only dealing with bold 4 years im hoping hes calm at 5 haha
 
Cluelessblonde said:
Completely agree! My lads complete is a bold brat but slowly getting there and professionals find him difficult but he was off hard feed until now cause he is in worked 6 days a week and its half a scoop of pony nuts until I can see what works feed wise. Your not going to crack the problem if you have a ton of variables. But good luck and its reassuring im not the only dealing with bold 4 years im hoping hes calm at 5 haha
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I just think he's tricky because hes not spooky so he is just bold. He hacks out really well past jcb's, lorries, tractors no bother. I think my next step is sending him away for a week or two.
 
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