Tricky stubborn pony, advice please

thanks horsemadmum, points noted about smacking. Bear in mind pony is only 14hh - L is growing at a rate of knots and overall they are a great match - just now and then an issue raises its head.

I know, I asked you for your advice and opinions, I know the pony is a little on the large size but for the record I'll just say once more that overall great match - the pony isn't going anywhere, we had multiple professional opinions on the match and we are keeping her :D confidence is not being affected in rider, she is just a bit frustrated over the last two days.
 
I've seen a couple of kids around 9/10 over horsed recently, much like your daughter seems to be I'm afraid. One lost all her confidence and has gone back to a 12.2 pony. She has now been hunting on pony and is going show jumping tonight, pony is not a saint but it is much easier for child to direct her and really RIDE as she is just the right size. The other child has only ever been 'taken' about by a pony very similar to yours, she now has a 13hh welsh b cross coming who she will out grow in afew years, but in the mean time, will be able to properly ride him and have experiences that she couldn't have on the bigger one due to his strength.

Just a bit of food for thought really, it will be very hard for your daughter to communicate with and make an impression on such a large pony.

Eta: Just seen your last post, I do think it will be very hard for your daughter on such a big pony but understand that it may not be a big problem. It will just make any issues much harder to resolve.
 
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Also another thought: as pony is youngster and you can't yet ride her, have you thought of having someone school her for you? Once or twice a week to help pony's education, L could watch and chat and the rider could explain what and why they are doing things and what they want pony to learn. Might help pony improve a little and so go better for L. Plus it would give a base consistency to aids. So rider uses them and L also uses them so pony more clear about what is wanted of her :)
 
thanks horsemadmum. I'm sorry if I came across as defensive. I'm trying to get across though how AMAZING this pony has been for my daughter for months - to try and let you know that she CAN be a good match for her - things have just gone a little wonky at the moment. I know she's on the large size, but L has (and will again) been able to handle that. And she is growing quickly...

Kylara, thank you - we will hack tonight :) As soon as we have this box I'm looking into PC. Our instructor comes every two weeks or so - but this time other people (including those coming from outside the livery) snapped her sessions up before I got a chance :( will make sure that doesn't happen again. She's really good instructor - last time she had Becky going so well, she was pre-empting canter on the corners and desperately trying to please (whether to please her rider, or the instructor, am not sure!!). This video was from before all of that, instructor prefers to work with L on the flat to establish position and control but L begged her for a jumping lesson... instructor is a well known local eventer who came home from Blair with several trophies I believe... also my friends at the livery mentioned name of a national trainer who comes to our area once a month, can go to a local yard for a lesson. Apparently she is amazing with problems and will get inside pony and rider's head and transform her riding forever.... at risk of getting too many different instructors involved I am tempted to try her, too.
 
Lovely pony and your Daughter will grow!. Back to basics is a good idea, some great advice on this thread. All ponies love hacking. I know both of my section D,s think schooling and jumping is just so dull. Out and about though popping a log or two is much more exciting.

Have you looked at the posts on here by Redmone?, hope I have spelt that right. She was in a similar situation to yourselves with a difficult, albeit smaller pony. With perseverance and lessons her Daughters riding has gone from strength to strength. She is a cracking little rider now and her ponies have taught her so much.

Good luck, it should be fun at least most of the time, lol.
 
thanks Kylara, this is something our instructor also does (and is small enough) I just have to balance out the priorities budget-wise.

PonyIAmNotFood, I appreciate your thoughts, bear in mind I've come on here and posted at a low point but 90% of the time (over the last 3 months) this pony has been a star for Laura, so I am not ready to give up on her yet.
 
In hand walking hack I hope ;) in hand is great because no rider means pony feels more free, and pays attention to the one leading, good bonding and doesn't have to be far - it is a nice relaxing thing to do for both leader and pony :)
Multiple instructors is good because they will focus on different things and get different things out of the combination which is always good. Gives a different look and light on how they go which can fix certain problems and some people are better at teaching certain bits than others :)
 
thanks Nettle123, I will look up her posts :) good to know your welsh D's get bored too, seems to be common.

Kylara, I hadn't meant in hand, but we could try a bit of both? would that work?
 
In hand is great for a sort of day off day as they get a little exercise and they bond and keeps good manners. It is interesting and fun and doesn't have to be too long either. It just varies the hacking out and you notice more by leading and going slow, nice and relaxing for everyone including pony too! A mix of both is good. But in hand is good for day off work or if you fancy a short exercise session :)
 
We had a Section A who was quite tricky with a smaller rider and an angel with a taller rider whose leg aids were in the best place. I think your struggles may continue until your daughter is bigger but at least she won't outgrow her for ages and if you want to persevere then great. It has taken my daughter three years to really get to grips with her just under 13hh Welsh B whom we bought when she was nearly eight. She is now nearly eleven and the perfect size for him and it has come together but it can take time. Good luck.
 
thanks Kylara :)

horsemadmum, it's probably different for every little rider. What you probably don't see is that my daughter is quite chunky and strong, definitely not a petit 9 yo... although this doesn't alter her height (average), she was perfectly sized for the first pony (13.2) but unfortunately we couldn't work with him at all, he just was not happy under saddle most likely due to stiffness (despite numerous physio vet etc). This one is a little larger but mostly sweet, willing and patient with L (sadly not the last two days!). I think she would be ungainly on a 13hh... (ETA perhaps not a 13hh, but we were advised not to try a 12.2hh for her, for example as way too small).
 
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Also-have reread your first post-seems there has been quite a dramatic change-if pony previously willing then there may be a physical reason for the napping. Just a suggestion.
 
hi horseandmum - I should have pointed out earlier actually, the instructor always shortens her stirrup leathers, they always look so short to me but instructor thinks it gives her better seat. I often put them down so her legs come further down. Could be that something has developed since last checks, yes. Vet is due to come out and do teeth, and we will get her back checked if no improvement.
 
A wee update, we hacked out last night, after doing a good ten minutes of ground work with B. I do think the ground work helps enormously. She loved her hack, perfectly well behaved. L took me down a little track with some fallen logs, which she jumped no prob but my horse frog leapt over, I was unseated and did a comedy fall onto my feet! I definitely don't have the confidence my daughter does!
 
Better a youngster learn on a pony a bit too small than one a lot too big. Is there nothing else she can ride so she can learn to be an effective rider rather than having to rely on the pony's good nature not to misbehave. A 14.1 section D is an adult's ride really and should carry you at 13 stone.
 
With respect Gloi, I have it on good authority that she is an effective rider and being experienced myself I can tell you that she is. She is not a beginner. We have had a couple of bad days, the 90%+ good days prove she is a good rider. I have had messages to say that she is not over horsed, various instructors and professionals at our yard and externally agree she is not over horsed. We had much more extreme problems on a smaller pony. I appreciate you coming on to reply, and I know this is the nature of posting on a forum but I'm repeating myself now. The pony is not too big for her.
 
Hi book_lover

Sorry, but I had to chuckle at your update regarding the hack! Perhaps your daughter should lead you out next time ;-)!!

I thought the jumping video you posted was brilliant, she does look like a very capable little rider! It took my daughter a good 12 months to get to that stage with our little pony who was, shall we say, challenging in the early days!

Personally, I'd look at the pony on the ground, and it's nature to determine whether they're suited. If the pony is a "nice person" and your daughter is a determined and patient girl, then I'm sure with time and lots of support they'll be a good team together.

A lot of people said to me that my daughter would miss out on loads of fun, whilst trying to "manage" on a pony which was probably too much for her. Why not get rid, and get a push button one. Well because some little girls don't want that, and someone has to love the tricky challenging ponies, who often turn out to be talented and so loyal once they're on your side!

Perhaps in some ways they were right, but we looked at it for the long term. I knew my daughter was a fighter, and a determined little monkey, and I knew she had the patience to deal with each issue as it came along. We were lucky to have a very supportive livery yard/riding school and lots of brilliant instructors who helped us along the way.

In short, only you know your daughter and what she's capable of. But I wouldn't be put off a pony who might be a little big but is probably just testing the water at the moment, providing you are both willing to put the time and work into solving the quirks and building the partnership.

I wish you the very best of luck, PM me!

RM xxx
 
Book-lover most people responding feel the pony is big for your daughter, that does not mean they think you should change it, just that it may have to be considered as a factor if they have problems. I wish you all the best with pony and daughter. I know how stressful it can be when things to go quite how they should. So long as your daughter is happy that is the main thing-and safe.
 
thanks Redmone, lovely reply. And yes, you are right to laugh at my expense, I must have looked ridiculous sliding off my horse and landing on my feet (but not before practically doing the splits for my poor hips!). My clever wee lass said: "We won't call that a fall Mum, we'll call it an emergency dismount". Had me in stitches! It was a fun, happy fall - if that makes sense. Poor Sebbie looks disconcerted I'd come off as he likes to look after me, but I just wasn't ready for the skyhigh funny leap. My husband's only response was: "do you think you might be getting a bit old for this riding lark?". Gee, thanks dearest!

thanks for the nice comments regarding L's riding, certainly the instructors we've had have been full of praise for her riding at her age. She's not perfect but she's bloomin' good for a 9yo. Her confidence with B is really high, she can be very assertive with her - a different story to the first pony who was just completely unwilling all of the time. We don't give up easily (we deliberated long and hard, and tried everything before sending the first pony back), and she takes after me - stubborn and determined, but it's about getting the right balance so she doesn't demand too much from her pony I think, especially if B is having a bad day. In answer to your question, B is a very lovely sweet person on the ground - she was wonderful for Laura yesterday when they worked on their ground work (and on the hack). She is desperate to please, but sometimes decides to be stroppy - I think like a child or a teenager (someone else mentioned that she's around the equivalent of a teen?). I think if I think of it that way, it makes more sense - like my kids: they know how to be good, quite often they WANT to please, but other times they can only see their own needs and wants.

I am with you and think this is something that will set L in good stead as a rider, give her the skills to be a sensitive rider that understands how to communicate better with her pony.

When I posted this thread I was having a bad day (for various reasons) and I think I blew things up a bit too much. Even then though I wasn't really ever concerned that the pony was the wrong pony - just looking for some training tips on how to get through the leg planting.

thanks again RM xxx
 
thanks horseandmum, I know everyone means well but I felt I was repeating myself a bit, that's all. As I mentioned in the first post - I did get a lot of professional advice with this pony before we committed (we took her on a trial period and I got instructors etc. to give me their opinion) - although often you wouldn't go for a larger pony everyone felt this was a fab match. I struggle to relate these problems to being a size issue, because the problems with the first pony (who was much smaller but very strong) were much, much worse and more consistent.

I respectfully am disagreeing that the pony is way too large - I do of course appreciate people giving me their thoughts (although I was really after training tips) and I did of course ask for opinions (although again - on training tips, but yes I know how forums tend to work). But I have to go with the opinions of the professionals I know and work with over people I haven't met, I think.... also, just so people know I was a responsible mother in how I went about choosing my daughter a pony :)
 
If your instructor does ride the pony to school it, does she shorten the stirrups up? I knownshe can't ride at your daughters length, but riding and schooling her with shorter atirrups that she would normally will help pony more than schooling with long ones. Pony will be getting similar commands on the barrel rather than under the ribs and so may get better at responding to your daughter.
As a fellow shorty friend of mine has a large dressage horse who occasionally gets sent off for a schooling session with her dressage trainer, the trainer rides as short as they feel comfortable doing so that when my friend gets her back she can get the same results :)
 
To be fair to everyone who has replied BL, look at the thread title, look at the video and look at your description of the pony's behaviour. You see the pony and your daughter every day, we have to go by the info you give.

You have since posted to explain that it was just a bad day so hopefully things will get better now. I just wanted to explain why people posted as they did. :)
 
I disagree about the pony being too big. Children learning to ride on very small ponies is a very British thing. In my home country, most kids learn to ride on 14-15hh stock horse types.

I'd recommend more dressage or flatwork lessons. I know when kids want to jump, that all seems boring, but it's such an important foundation. On the video, Laura and pony were careening around the corners and flying up to the jumps unbalanced and on the forehand. In one instant, she tries to get the canter, doesn't, runs horse into canter and horse gets wrong lead and veers motorcycle-around the corner towards the jump anyway. Is it a lesson? That would have been a really good opportunity to take a bit of time to practice that transition, get it smooth and get it on the correct lead. It also looked as though the pony was being ridden really deep into the jump and chipping over it, which is pretty symptomatic of the horse being on her forehand and not balanced enough to do the job well. Horses generally find it unsettling and uncomfortable to be out of balance, and that creates a lot of misbehaviour, including balking.

With a bit more time smoothing out the flatwork, Laura and this pony could be a great team.
 
I would like to say (perhaps against the grain here) that I've only ever known one horse that was actually cheeky and would take the mickey with a rider - and that horse did it to everyone unless you were assertive (was like that on the ground too!). Even she grew out of it. Every other incident of a problem between horse/rider that I've ever come across, has actually been down to pain/discomfort due to tack/riding style/medical issues, or miscommunication between horse and rider.

Sometimes the horse has needed some schooling (especially those with a bad past - unlikely to be an issue here), but more often the rider has needed to find some decent balance, become less tense and allow the horse to use itself beneath them, give accurate aids and the freedom to do their job properly. I have lost count of the number of people who thought they were quite a good rider, until you unpicked the problem and found they weren't giving enough over jumps (like your daughter), were losing their balance in transitions, were lopsided, tense through part of their body (can cause not going forward/bucking or the complete opposite depending on the horse) etc etc. It is much harder to correct these things than to learn correctly from the beginning, and requires a decent instructor who does not assume it's the horse's fault every time.

Being a bit small for the pony isn't an issue if the pony has been correctly trained (weight aids first and foremost), and the rider has also. I can put a tiny 8 year old on my TB and she will go from weight alone. My 2 year old son has started on a 13.2hh because she has adopted him and neither of them would be willing to accept anything else. She responds to his very basic weight aids and he only weighs 11kg!
 
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