Tried loose ring waterford bit and horse hated it !!

meesha

meesha

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Anyone else had same issue? Horse normally in French link full cheek (5 year old who is happy to go on bit) but need a bit more braking for hunting. Tried a loose ring waterford today and for the first time ever he leaned on my hand and when we had a v forward canter and I asked for trot he ignored me and ran on (we always pull at before a certain point and he has never run on before). Was reluctant to try a gag as can get bit bucky at start of hunt and tucks head in a little too much but think only option is French link gag and put on first ring as he is happy with french link but all suggestions welcome! :-)
 
A waterford only works for a horse that leans IF the jockey has an independent seat and can give the rein to drop the horse off the contact such that the bit collapses and the horse has nothing to lean on. In other words, if horse leans/pulls and you respond by blocking/pulling against the horse then you will create a rigid ungiving mouthpiece for the horse to lean on and pull against. If on the other hand, when the horse leans/pull you just give fractionally with the hand on the side the horse is leaning, or with both hands, then you will drop the horse off the contact and in order to maintain his balance he will very quickly learn that he has to balance himself and not rely on leaning on you, or he will end up with his nose on the floor.
 
Thanks both, he has never been one to lean before today, not even out hunting! Totally get what you are saying with collapsing the mouthpeice but from the off he seemed unhappy in it, not his usual self. I do have a pelham but don't want to faff with 2 reins for hunting, thinking of trying French link gag but will keep pelham in mind (have one in collection and founding if needed). Pony has done fun rides and fast work in loose ring French link so almost tempted to leave him in it and just remember voice and seat (and brave pants)
 
If the horse does not lean the Waterford is not the bit for him.
Have you considered a Dr Bristol ?
No issue with using a Pelham with roundings or split reins if it works .
I don't like kimblewicks but there's no doubt many horses go well in them .
 
Will investigate kimblewick and Dr Bristol but really don't want anything too strong, have only been out twice (although he has hunted in Ireland) so still start of season and we did do have some good bursts of speed last Saturday, be interesting to see if he settles with time or gets more excited hehe!
 
My pony sometimes needs extra breaks and goes really well in a kimblewick. I only ever put it on the lower slot if nesscessary as a reminder, the rest of the time it's on the normal slot.
 
Waterfords are not nasty bits as someone has commented. My Clydesdale went fantastic in it and we had tried everything, he disliked snaffles as they have a nut cracker action which he didn't get on with. Anyway waterfords need to be bigger than you would normally buy this is to enable them to bend. Each horse is different that's why there are different bits.

Good luck with your search op.
 
Other horse liked his waterford, I had gel bit guards on it and was correct size (larger than french link) but new horse is very light in hand and never leans unlike other horse who was a cross between a bulldozer and tank :-)
 
After all your help, which I am grateful for I think brave pants and his usual French link full cheek this Saturday but I will really try and push him up into bridle and sit deep. Will also give me a chance to see exactly what he is doing if too strong ! We have not had to circle or take emergency action as yet so not disastrous !
 
Remember if you get any nice uphill stretches, take the opportunity and let go of his head and kick on. Show him that you aren't always going to be on his mouth. Sometimes just being a bit more 'black and white' about things when their adrenalin is up helps no end.
 
Gunnergundog had lovely blast uphill last sat, I let him go but the coming back downhill was sightly quicker than I would have liked haha! Nessa4 I agree but was struggling to find something that wouldnt encourage him to tuck behind bit. Will let you all know how we get on!
 
My mare went beautifully in a waterford. Out hunting when she got tired she left me to hold her head up and the waterford stopped that. I am a very lazy rider who rides with my reins in loops a lot of the time. Mare wasn't strong, just needed to think for herself. The waterford is a good bit when used in the right situation.
 
Dr Bristol and kimblewick on my backup list for purchase sat afternoon if sat morning not as planned! Not enough time this week to order and try b4 this sat, def need to try anything out prior to hunting.
 
a waterford is a far far far more gentle bit than a Dr Bristol, which is basically a french link in which the link is on at a angle so presses into the tounge. The waterford is a totally flexible rounded link bit, which is often used for horses which lean on a bit. It has no pressure points or pinch points, just tricky for a horse to grab and lean on. I would never ever use a Dr Bristol, a single jointed bit or a twisted bit. A straight bar pelham works well for pullers, with soft mouths, and I found it worked best for my eventer if used with a single rein and roundings, which is not the norm. I also had the same bit mouth with hanging cheeks for dressage. My TB does all disciplines eventing in a straight bar happy mouth loose ring snaffle and never pulls.

You need to think carefully about the mouth piece action, as well as the cheek pieces. A hanging cheek gives poll pressure which can help lower the head, a single joint mouth piece has a pinch action in the tongue and when pulled the joint goes up into the roof of the mouth which causes a horse to lift its head to avoid the pressure.
 
Somebody asked why the Waterford is a nasty bit: because it has no function that is "comfortable", it is designed NOT to offer a contact, merely to be unpleasant therefore discouraging the horse from meeting the rider's hand. Yes, for some horses ridden in a certain way, it will "work" - but that is only if you consider the bit to be a very, very basic blunt instrument.

There are other bits of this snaffle type (the "W" mouth, or even better; the twisted wire W - lovely! The Magennis is another), but they are truly nasty instruments and not one that a civilised horseman should consider using.
 
shannonandtay said:
Two quotes on this post about a Waterford being a terrible bit without any further comment,can either poster please say why, just out of interest.
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Bosworth said:
a waterford is a far far far more gentle bit than a Dr Bristol, which is basically a french link in which the link is on at a angle so presses into the tounge. The waterford is a totally flexible rounded link bit, which is often used for horses which lean on a bit. It has no pressure points or pinch points, just tricky for a horse to grab and lean on.
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The Waterford creates pressure points at each of the 'bobbles'. Worse still, it can trap the bars of the mouth in between two of the links and cause excruciating pain. It is a barbaric bit, no better than the twisted snaffles. I would also avoid the Dr Bristol as it created a concentrated pressure point on the tongue.
 
Thanks guys, he goes so well in French link mouthpiece I want to stick to that or v similar. May add Wilkie to list with lozenge if can't find French link one. Have a lozenge pelham with roundings so could try that too.
 
triple said:
can't generalise that they will all find it nasty.
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It is me that finds the whole concept nasty; I don't doubt that some horses will be easier for people to stop with a Waterford mouthpiece, just as they are stopped by any number of varyingly unethically severe contraptions. I would however prefer that proper training was applied rather than mechanics.
 
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