tried the tom thumb bit.............

But too much for sj!! good for XC. Any ideas now he just throws his head up with the tom thumb but it did work inbetween the fences. I have no control in the french link snaffle which is what i did use.

Something to keep his head down. Theres a local show at the weekend with CR on grass so I can take some there to try out i dont mind but suggestions are good to give me time to beg borrow!

thankies though as like the TT bit!!
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I have a waterford pelham?? what do you think?? not used it on him yet as though it might be too much but could try ith leather curb instead of chain??

Or waterford snaffle do you thinks better??
 
*waits to be shot down in flames*

Have you thought about trying a standing martingale if he's chucking his head up before the jumps but you have the necessary control elsewhere?
 
Nope its not schooling trainer has TOLD me I need more control between the fences. He is schooled fine just an over keen jumper (she jumps internationally so im guessing ill take her advice) she has told me to experiment but I just have not done much jumping since last lesson (1 confess 1 lot last night)

He is schooled to death on grass, on a surface, away from home etc etc we need more control now!! can you then reccommend schooling for calming exuberance!!!!!
 
I have the exact same problem so very interested to here replies as I've been hit in the face a few times by an enthusiastic head!
Its no schooling issue for me either, she just loves her jumping!
 
Please dont shorten your running martingale!!! It will cause more tension through the mouth and neck as he resists...
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Hate seeing short martingales!!!
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If he is chucking his head up, a pelham would be better than any of the opthers mentioned as they are all elevator bits which will raise their heads.....
 
A possible silly question... Can they jump in standing martingales then? What if they stumble and need to bring their head up to stop themselves from falling? I've never used one / have no proper idea how they work!
 
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I have a waterford pelham?? what do you think?? not used it on him yet as though it might be too much but could try ith leather curb instead of chain??

Or waterford snaffle do you thinks better??

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The snaffle. At least try the snaffle first before the pelham. I had a waterford snaffle in my bloody strong coloured. That and the dutch gag were the only bits that worked. Have you tried the dutch gag? Only on the 2nd hole.
 
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already use a martingale maybe i could shorten it??
hang snaffle no good
have a gag to try but may do the same as TT bit??

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Which martingale are you using? Try a standing martingale. Yes Ruth, correctly adjusted they can jump in it, it's used to prevent the head going unnecessarily high NOT to strap the head down.

Avoid the gags, which are designed to raise the head, and try a pelham which should help him to lower his head.

If you're already using a standing martingale you could try a market harborough instead. We used one for a short while on a pony that had managed to nearly take my daughter's teeth out twice. He got the message very swiftly that it wasn't worth evading by "flipping" his head and neck.
 
Ok will leave martingale and its a running (hence the shortening bit) sorry not a standing it is a bit long anyway

Will try pelham as agree with gags as they do elevate rather than drop but I only have a waterford one so will try it without chain and just with roundings first. If not i might see if I can borrow off our new bit bank..... a french link pelham but wont hassle H-J yet

Note to self PM HJ when bit bank running!!!
 
See if your running can be lengthened(!) so that it can be correctly adjusted to work as a standing by slipping the rings onto your noseband - provided it's a cavesson.
 
sorry ment to ad thanks for all your suggestions I hate changing bits and have used a snaffle even for XC up to now but as he has got stronger and fitter and better we need to have some control when jumping (usually just before the fence)

Thankies all
 
Lots of schooling doesn't necessarily equate appropriate schooling to deal with the problem at hand (and your instructor's jumping level doesn't have all that much bearing on the situation - some international jumpers are shocking riders as this YouTube video of Dennis Lynch nicely demonstrates, and some instructors who will never compete at any notable level are fantastic). You are schooling to calm exuberance? It seems to make more sense to me to school for 'listening'.

My worry, as ever, when I see a 'what can I upgrade x piece of tack to?' post (especially where the aims of the rider and the time-frame in which to meet those aims seem particularly unfair on the horse) is that a tom-thumb is fast becoming a gag with a shorter running martingale. What's to stop this evolving into an even stronger gag with a standing martingale? And if this still isn't 'enough', where then? Draw reins? An even sharper bit? But anyway, it's your call at the end of the day and you want control now. I can't really think of any solution to the problems I see with this.
 
yes, all well and good but not all bitting problems can be solved this way..

some horses just don't "go" in a snaffle..
 
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some horses just don't "go" in a snaffle..

[/ QUOTE ]Utterly agreed that they may not go well in one or handful of types of snaffle, but there are countless different types of snaffle out there - straight, curved, rubber, single link, French link, Dr. Bristol, thick, thin etc. etc. etc. and I doubt that even half of these have been tried first. It doesn't follow that just because a French link snaffle didn't work that all snaffles are a dead failure and the bit must then get harsher each time. A Tom Thumb is already a big step upwards in the severity rankings.
 
ah well I have been riding him now for over a year and i think i know when we are need to have a bit change. And TBH i use the forum for advice for biting im sure that many that have been suggested are far to severe wont work etc etc but its a question that someone might be able to answer ultimately its up to me to decide and anyway we have no time frame/ aspirations etc etc just require control so my horse and I have the best chance of performing the best we can.

I have been riding in a snaffle since he was backed and now its time for something more. And i pay alot of money for my instructors advice and opinon and amazingly we have progressed very well and he jumps much better so maybe they are giving the right advice????

I take it your a snaffle gal then!

JM07- used a myler combo on my older horse. he might be a bit young for this but have that stored away under later bits to try.......... thanks though
 
Quite honestly, as long as the bit is comfortable in my horse's mouth, I'm not really bothered what type it is because it's not what I rely on for control in anything less than an emergency. The severity of any bit only becomes an issue when you treat the bit as the main controlling device. My old-fashioned view is that control comes from the seat, and the hands simply offer further 'fine-tuning' - the hands shouldn't be the brakes or the steering wheel, they should be the brake-lights or the indicators (for your horse's benefit). Anyway, as I said, it's your call and you think well of your instructor and her methods so good luck to you both.
 
Thats all lovely but honestly it really isn't like that in real life! It really irritates me when people go all evangelical about 'stopping with the seat' etc etc, which is all well and good in the school, but out hunting or xc simply doesnt work! I have an anglo arab who I can walk, trot, canter and jump in the school not only bitless but bridleless, but out hacking - he's in a kimblewick! Bits are truly no harsher than the hands that use them, different types apply pressure at different speeds and in different places - thats all. So if purely bar and lip pressure doesnt work, why is it so bad to try coupling that with poll pressure etc? I hate to see people refusing to use anything more than a snaffle, and hauling their horse around because they simply dont respond to it. How that can be seen to be 'kinder' than using a bit that requires only a touch on the reins is a mystery to me.
 
Do you wera the martingale for XC? My sister's horse when we first got him would poccasionally throw his head and spin if scared on a hack. We put him in a running martingale as we thought it would help stop him doing this but actually I think the martingale made him worse and the pressure this put on the reins when he threw his head up i think panicked him and made him worse. We opted fro a standing which did the trick. It was only temporary anyway until he gained in confidence and trusted us. Personally I don't use martingales to compete but I have seen top showjumpers wearing standings and one in particular had one that snapped at Bramham in a SJ class and boy could you then see the reason why she had it! Didn't seem to hinder the horses jumping though.

I have put an old pony of mine in a rubber straight bar pelham but actually had to remove the curb chain as, although he is strong he also is rather sensitive and the curb stopped him dead. Gave me much more control on him though without seeming harsh and I think pelhams do encourage the to keep their heads down whereas the gag encourages the head up (or that was always my understanding and the gag works on my horse as he has the opposite problem and is heavier on his forehand)

I think the the best you can do is beg, steal, borrow what bits you can and play around, see what suits you both.
 
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