Trotter to riding horse training

[ycbm]

First off, I won't be doing much with Joe until he's 4 but I thought a thread might be interesting to folks and give me ideas for the spring. Secondly, for those who don't know me I'm neither a novice nor a numpty and I have plenty of ideas of my own but again I thought it would be fun to discuss how to turn a horse trained to trot very fast in a sulky to do a working trot and canter.

So, Joe had 7 weeks "traveller style" training to pull a sulky as fast as possible along a road earlier this year before I bought him. His hind leg movement is huge and he steps under so far he forges at every stride, but his hind legs go too much out behind him. To convert him to a riding horse he needs to learn to bring his back legs under him more and lift.

What exercises would you use to achieve this?
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[dominobrown]

I have done it… hard work!
Lots of suppleling exercises, as they can be quite rigid in the body and need to learn to soften to a contact and not throw themselves into it and then onto their forehand. Think shoulder fore, shoulder in and train a basic leg yield fairly soon. Transitions with a soft hand until the cows come home.
the canter is another essay but keep it short and on a curve and literally build it up slowly.
Also hill work helped mine.
all the time school think soft and relaxed and quite slow almost. When they tense they tend to revert to that lateral movement and to get the diagonal trot they need to be relaxed in the body and supple.
Polework it great… keep it simple though. I like 3 poles (do trot, when more advanced move on to canter poles) and do a transition up to trot before them or down to walk just after to encourage rhythm and a true trot.

sorry if this was no help and just random ramblings!!!

 

[dominobrown]

Oh and a good physio and farrier!!

 

[ycbm]

He isn't a pacer, he's a square trotter, which will make things easier. He does tranter, but the canter transition is one of easiest I've ever had on a horse this young and green and the canter is sweet.
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[Gloi]

I have done it… hard work!
Lots of suppleling exercises, as they can be quite rigid in the body and need to learn to soften to a contact and not throw themselves into it and then onto their forehand. Think shoulder fore, shoulder in and train a basic leg yield fairly soon. Transitions with a soft hand until the cows come home.
the canter is another essay but keep it short and on a curve and literally build it up slowly.
Also hill work helped mine.
all the time school think soft and relaxed and quite slow almost. When they tense they tend to revert to that lateral movement and to get the diagonal trot they need to be relaxed in the body and supple.
Polework it great… keep it simple though. I like 3 poles (do trot, when more advanced move on to canter poles) and do a transition up to trot before them or down to walk just after to encourage rhythm and a true trot.

sorry if this was no help and just random ramblings!!!

Fortunately it seems he is a trotter not a pacer.
I do agree with the supplying exercises though.
If he has only had a few weeks in harness it won't be so ingrained so he shouldn't be too much different to any other horse to train.

 

[ycbm]

I agree that it's lucky he had only had a few weeks in harness, but watching him in the field it must have been quite natural to him to produce that length of trot stride out behind him, it's quite noticeable! Ludo was definitely bred to do it but he doesn't, thankfully.

A bit like these, not quite so extreme, but you get the idea.
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[GSD Woman]

I'm following this with interest as I keep thinking that getting a retired Standardbred may be the way to go in the future.

 

[dominobrown]

My horse was a trotter not a standardbred so I am aware there is a difference, he unfortunately had “retired” from 3. I have also worked several trotters. I have also retrained a couple of Standardbreds.
But obviously feel free to ignore my advice if it doesn’t apply to your horse.
Good luck on your journey.

 

[ycbm]

Just to clarify for people who are interested.

Joe was trained to trot pulling a sulky (light cart) but he has no parents registered and could be any breeding. Lots of horses used this way will not be registered standardbreds.

Standardbreds are bred to pull sulkies fast, and they can either be pacers (both legs on one side forward at a time) or square trotters (diagonal pairs). Joe is a square trotter.

Having seen a few pacers retrained for leisure riding, they can find canter very difficult. I don't know of any square trotters retrained for leisure riding, but I suspect they will also find canter difficult if they've been trotting a long time.

Joe did only 7 weeks, and he pops into canter very sweetly, thank goodness.

I believe that training techniques should be very similar whether they are square or pacer, standardbred or not.
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[ycbm]

I'm following this with interest as I keep thinking that getting a retired Standardbred may be the way to go in the future.

I'm told that my half standardbred has a typical standie temperament and I would have another any time.
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[ycbm]

My horse was a trotter not a standardbred so I am aware there is a difference, he unfortunately had “retired” from 3. I have also worked several trotters. I have also retrained a couple of Standardbreds.
But obviously feel free to ignore my advice if it doesn’t apply to your horse.
Good luck on your journey.

A lot does apply. He has no concept of sideways off the leg and I'll be taking up your suggestion of leg yields next time I ride, not least because I can't hack until he leg yields at least to the left, for the cars!
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[thefarsideofthefield]

A lot does apply. He has no concept of sideways off the leg and I'll be taking up your suggestion of leg yields next time I ride, not least because I can't hack until he leg yields at least to the left, for the cars!
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Can't say I've had much experience with trotters as such so not really got anything useful to add , but can say that driving/ex driving horses can be hard to keep over to the left in general - they always want to leave room for the cart ! The draught horse that had spent his life pulling a tram on the Isle of Man remained adamant he needed to walk right in the middle of the road and nothing could ever pursuade him otherwise !

 

[ycbm]

Can't say I've had much experience with trotters as such so not really got anything useful to add , but can say that driving/ex driving horses can be hard to keep over to the left in general - they always want to leave room for the cart ! The draught horse that had spent his life pulling a tram on the Isle of Man remained adamant he needed to walk right in the middle of the road and nothing could ever pursuade him otherwise !

This is a bonus for me as I ride the middle of our narrow lanes for safety. He does need to learn to move over for a car though ?

 

[Zuzan]

I would like to see a nice 4 beat walk .. get that really well established. I was taught to slow the walk (my horse liked to do a race horse walk that tends towards a lateralisation) and use Fléchi droit. This can be taught in hand from the ground and is a good warm up exercise even for the more "mature" horse .

 

[exracehorse]

I have a trotter. He has the normal trot. And then the trotter trot (if tearing around the field). High knee action. He finds collection difficult but is 100 percent better. He likes to tuck his neck in and power from front end. Chest is solid muscle. His canter is better out hacking. If you let him run into the canter from a trot. When schooling trot to canter transitions it’s bit hit and miss. Sometimes the back legs go together for 4/5 strides. But he doesn’t pace like a standardbred. In lockdown I focused a lot on his flatwork and he preferred walk to canter. He’s fab at long distance. Jumps like a stag. Amazing to hack.

 

[GoldenWillow]

My mare was originally bought from Appleby as a 3 year old, she was broken to ride and drive, mainly driven. Like exracehorse horse she had a normal trot and a trotter trot and was happy to stay in normal trot until asked to produce her trotter trot. I don't think you will need to do anything specifically different than you would do with any other young horse although this could have been different had he older and driven for a long time.

My mare apparently had standard bred in her, looked lightweight cob to me though, but had a comparatively long back. Despite when I bought her as a 5 yr old having splints on both front legs and numerous windgalls she had no soundness problems throughout her life. She went into canter no problem, had a lovely comfortable rocking horse canter, had a huge jump (think 14.1 jumping 1.20) and the most wonderful temperament. Very, very occasionally and only on perfect ground, as it was fun, I'd ask her for trotter trot and it was unreal to ride! She was my horse of a lifetime although J is turning into another but for different reasons.

 

[GSD Woman]

I guess this is moot point in England but there are enough Standardbreds that are used for hunting here that I'm willing to risk it, even though I don't hunt, since they're such nice, sensible horses for the most part. And they don't seem to have the soundness problems that off the track thoroughbreds have.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I’d start them like any other project. On the ground - in hand / long reining / over poles / lunging. Ridden quietly in an enclosed space, quiet hacking with safe company etc.

I’d do all the checks - dentist / bodywork / foot balance / saddler etc.

I’d assess their strengths and weaknesses to build a plan and have a look at some of the conditioning and corrective exercise in Jec Ballou’s 55 corrective exercises book for ideas.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I have done it… hard work!
Lots of suppleling exercises, as they can be quite rigid in the body and need to learn to soften to a contact and not throw themselves into it and then onto their forehand. Think shoulder fore, shoulder in and train a basic leg yield fairly soon. Transitions with a soft hand until the cows come home.
the canter is another essay but keep it short and on a curve and literally build it up slowly.
Also hill work helped mine.
all the time school think soft and relaxed and quite slow almost. When they tense they tend to revert to that lateral movement and to get the diagonal trot they need to be relaxed in the body and supple.
Polework it great… keep it simple though. I like 3 poles (do trot, when more advanced move on to canter poles) and do a transition up to trot before them or down to walk just after to encourage rhythm and a true trot.

sorry if this was no help and just random ramblings!!!

I had an established SB from a rescue years ago...he was a "square trotter". This advice is almost word for word what I'd have written. My lad was an old boy when I got him and he'd been a Trotter for years...trained him to canter and collect his trot within a few months with lots of polework etc

 

[Marnie]

First off, I won't be doing much with Joe until he's 4 but I thought a thread might be interesting to folks and give me ideas for the spring. Secondly, for those who don't know me I'm neither a novice nor a numpty and I have plenty of ideas of my own but again I thought it would be fun to discuss how to turn a horse trained to trot very fast in a sulky to do a working trot and canter.

So, Joe had 7 weeks "traveller style" training to pull a sulky as fast as possible along a road earlier this year before I bought him. His hind leg movement is huge and he steps under so far he forges at every stride, but his hind legs go too much out behind him. To convert him to a riding horse he needs to learn to bring his back legs under him more and lift.

What exercises would you use to achieve this?
.

It's interesting that you mention forging, Delilah seems to be doing that a lot, even at walk. She also seems to 'trail' her hind legs and it will be interesting to see if she starts to bring them under her more as she grows.

 

[ycbm]

Yes he clacks at every stride as his hind feet hit the bottom of his front feet. Ludo, who is half stardardbred, overreaches a lot, thankfully Joe doesn't. Normally I would worry that the front legs were being slow to get out of the way, but he has a big foreleg reach as well.

I do find him different than a completely untrained 3 year old. He's not as wobbly in the balance even with my weight, and he's been more confident to move and to really stride out. It's very early days yet, but as people have suggested, lateral suppleness is going to need work.

I'll also be using a lot of transitions, both walk/trot and within the trot and some big half halts every time he runs into the roadracer trot.
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[Marnie]

Delilah is only about 16 months so won't be doing anything for a while but I will have to come back to this thread when she starts!

 

[webble]

My standie has raced and struggled with canter at first, lots of long reining and pole work to strengthen him helped at first. He started offering canter of his own accord so lots of praise and saying the word when he was doing it helped. We did have to start saying no though as he is eager to please and started cantering everywhere because he thought that's what was good ?

 

[rara007]

I’d be blaming it more on the breeding than the training tbh ?

 

[Glitter's fun]

Any updates?

 

[ycbm]

Of Joe? Unfortunately he had to be sold due to a house move before I could really get going with him this year.
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[Glitter's fun]

Of Joe? Unfortunately he had to be sold due to a house move before I could really get going with him this year.
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Thank you, I meant Joe & Delilah. Hope the move went well.