Trotting issues with horse

Jasmine2023 said:
Got you that's a good idea which I might try after a bit of ground work. Going to start some ground work next week and see how we go. He might not be quite so scared if he's on the lunge.
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Do you know how to lunge? It's not normally something taught whilst learning to ride.
 
If you were my family member/good friend I would be concerned for your safety. Horses, even quiet "good" horses are unpredictable, it may go really well every time, or it may not. I am a couple of years older than you, haven't ridden for years, I too have arthritis. You will never ever find me on a 5yo on a road on my own. Our reactions are slower, our joints are stiffer, our muscles are weaker and our bones more fragile. IF I chose to ride again it would be on a nice old boy who would look after me, forgive my faults, and couldn't be coaxed into a bolt with a firework up his backside! I would also be in company with experienced riders and calm company..
Jasmine I appreciate all your good intentions but you have been badly let down
As an aside has anyone checked saddle fit ? If that's wrong it could cause him to shoot forward in trot.
 
Would agree that he ideally needs someone else helping to bring him on and continue to educate him (& that generally youngsters are not ideal choices for novice riders unless they have experienced support including someone willing to ride the horse regularly for the first few years to iron out issues) but you are where you are and if you can find the right help then in a few years you may end up with the horse you need.

If you’re not in a position to pay someone then I’d agree having a sharer a few times a week for at least the next couple of years (with them paying either nothing or very little) may work if you find the right person. Your best bet probably would be a confident, experienced uni student who’s had to sell their horse / leave it at home, someone who’s had to retire their horse and can’t afford 2 or someone just wanting to ride a few times a week without all the strings that come with having your own. You’d need them to have experience of green horses for this to be of benefit.

A yard that I was on had 3 or 4 uni student sharers at one point and 2 of them were bringing on green horses for fairly novice owners with all parties being quite happy (one of which was FAR worse than what you’re describing as was a habitual rearer) & when I was a student myself I did similar (albeit on a very casual basis) for someone I met on another horse forum as my own horse was on full loan and I had less than zero money and was missing riding (this is why low cost shares can appeal to uni students as they can’t normally afford to ride in any other way). Unsure how much actual benefit I brought to the arrangement but we were both happy for the few years that we did this until I was able to take my own horse back (& pretty quickly be lumbered with his vet bills!)

Would also say definitely worth working on your trot skills away from him for a little while to get yourself stronger and more balanced before you ask him again. (& avoid sitting trot until rising trot well established and he’s going in a balanced way as will make it so much easier for you both)

If you did manage to save someone for some more professional help from time to time Sally wouldn’t be a bad shout for some groundwork stuff, equally I think Joe Midgeley who a few on here rate for groundwork passes your way sometimes or if you fancied some “fun” obstacle type stuff then The Wild Equestrian may come out your way (& if you get a few friends together I believe she does do yard visits). Will have a think to see if anyone else comes to mind but will admit I’m at a bit of a crossroads myself right now re what kind of input I want & need (am actually going to check out the person Steph has linked to)
 
Jasmine2023 said:
Oh gosh I couldn't say how many hours to be honest. I have arthritis so struggle sometimes, but I try hard.
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But the other parts are true, that you are an older rider who has only been riding for the last two years, and then only occasionally?

Whilst people who are encouraging you with this green youngster may mean well I’m afraid that I just do not think you are a good mix. You and he will end up injured if you carry on.

He needs a balanced and quietly confident rider to bring him on, he’s just a baby.
 
If all the riding school need to see, is someone else riding him in all three paces, then pay a rider to come out and ride him once.

They will see him in all three paces.

They will hopefully determine him suitable and he can go on working livery, getting more experienced and established.

Resulting in a pony who is getting plenty of work and therefore more likely to be the quiet and easy pony you need.
 
misst said:
Im not sure a variety of novicey riders in a riding school would be beneficial to the horse. He'll end up confused and bored/frustrated I would think at best. He needs his own education to learn to move correctly before teaching people to ride.
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Have to agree. Maybe some RS's would be okay but haven't got the best impression of this one tbh.

eta: Have to say I am feeling sorry for you Jasmine, it sounds like you did your best and took advice like you're "supposed" to. Hope you can appreciate that you're not the only person or the last person to make a decision that doesn't work out perfectly, there are plenty of folks here who have done the same and have found a solution.
 
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Mrs. Jingle said:
I agree to a certain extent as have experienced it many times with cobs. However, I have also had and know some that sailed through life without ever hitting the Kevins, there is nothing to say this won't be the case with OPs new horse with the right support and education going forward.

Maybe not the best time for horror stories really. OP is already stressed and trying to work out a way forward so a bit of encouragement would be great.
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I am sorry if it comes across as a horror story. I am of a similar age to OP and am offering her the advice I would give to a friend. It is easy to under-estimate how much age can affect things like balance, confidence, ability to bounce and the time and money available to solve a problem. OP is clear she has arthritis and limited funds. I would not be encouraging a friend in her situation to continue with something which may well take time and money to sort out.

I would also add that recently I found myself with a horse which I would happily have continued with 20 years ago. I looked at the time, money and effort involved and agreed with my instructor to find the horse a suitable (younger) owner. My excellent instructor found me a good pony and the horse a great new owner where he is coming on brilliantly. I would hope OP gets a similar happy outcome.
 
Jenko109 said:
If all the riding school need to see, is someone else riding him in all three paces, then pay a rider to come out and ride him once.
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I personally have some reservations about a riding school that point blank refuse to get on a horse themselves but are happy to pop their clients on it, once they've seen it WTC once !

There are some great riding schools, I have used them locally as an adult when I've been between fit horses, and some I wouldn't trust with my guinea pigs.

A well researched sharer might be the best of a difficult situation here.
 
I think if you ride in a very big circle and when he is warmed up, say 20 mins of whatever you do, think carefully about your position, your seat balance and arm position, your important contact with the reins, your legs, then use a light squeeze and go into sitting jog trot, keep your arxe well in contact with the saddle, jog for say 5 strides let it die to walk, walk on 20 strides then repeat

The important thing will be not to grip with your legs which can be a disaster, that's what makes novices make a horse surge forwards into even canter and off they pop, legs hang lightly adhering enough to keep you with the horse

On a circle, big, less likely to gain speed, to come from trot to walk, ride into the bridle allow time to come down to walk, graduated transition, when horse is jogging follow with soft arms and hands the protect mouth

Dont lean
backwards or forwards, pull yourself up tall, this will give you a more secure contact in the saddle

Follow the circle with your body ie the same curve as the horse

If you try this do it slowly to have lots of time to think, position yourself and do it when you are ready steadily so you can control the speed

Trouble with rising trot is lose balance means gripping with legs, weight is unbalanced, hands grab mouth

Now don't go out and do 50 trots, just think about when in arena, practice prepare, when you are happy to give it a go ask gently you might get one jog step which will be a start, start small for good results, slow jog should be easy to control for a few strides, and the steps should be shorter than rising trot

You need to learn this anyway to do rising
Trot
 
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I think its a bit weird the rs wont get on him. How do they go and test out potential horses for the rs?

Others will have more idea so this is just a suggestion, but would a stock saddle provide Jasmine with a bit more security and support her arthritis? Ive never used one but seen them suggested on here so others who know more?
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
I think its a bit weird the rs wont get on him. How do they go and test out potential horses for the rs?

Others will have more idea so this is just a suggestion, but would a stock saddle provide Jasmine with a bit more security and support her arthritis? Ive never used one but seen them suggested on here so others who know more?
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That's an interesting suggestion - I've never used a stock saddle but I know of someone with mobility issues who swears by it.
 
tristars said:
I think if you ride in a very big circle and when he is warmed up, say 20 mins of whatever you do, think carefully about your position, your seat balance and arm position, your important contact with the reins, your legs, then use a light squeeze and go into sitting jog trot, keep your arxe well in contact with the saddle, jog for say 5 strides let it die to walk, walk on 20 strides then repeat

The important thing will be not to grip with your legs which can be a disaster, that's what makes novices make a horse surge forwards into even canter and off they pop, legs hang lightly adhering enough to keep you with the horse

On a circle, big, less likely to gain speed, to come from trot to walk, ride into the bridle allow time to come down to walk, graduated transition, when horse is jogging follow with soft arms and hands the protect mouth

Dont lean
backwards or forwards, pull yourself up tall, this will give you a more secure contact in the saddle

Follow the circle with your body ie the same curve as the horse

If you try this do it slowly to have lots of time to think, position yourself and do it when you are ready steadily so you can control the speed

Trouble with rising trot is lose balance means gripping with legs, weight is unbalanced, hands grab mouth

Now don't go out and do 50 trots, just think about when in arena, practice prepare, when you are happy to give it a go ask gently you might get one jog step which will be a start, start small for good results, slow jog should be easy to control for a few strides, and the steps should be shorter than rising trot

You need to learn this anyway to do rising
Trot
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I think when the time comes this is super helpful, but I don't think that time is now.

Some context Jasmine, because I'm not sure your "advisors" have really either understood, or communicated, what horse ownership is about. I say this having skimmed a few pages of your first post on the board, with your cob, and taking note of how you describe things and explain your expectations of both horses.

Riding school horses have been hardened in the vast majority of cases. They are ridden by a variety of students who, to varying degrees, cause them to switch off. The riders are generally confident as they're having a lesson with a trainer and riding to instruction minute by minute, second by second. It may not teach you the subtle art of riding well, but it gets you thinking you "can ride".

Being the only, or main, rider of a horse that is not in these circumstances is an entirely different beast. There can be issues on the ground, so far it looks like the only ones you're facing are being caused by incompetent handling and decision making by the yard staff. But there are two other aspects, riding, and what I'll describe as "energy".

Energy is how we approach the horse, how we connect with it, what we bring to the table with every interaction. This is where horses are a mirror, and not part of a therapeutic approach to help us with our lives. They will show up our own issues over and over. I met a lovely lady who was organising a groundwork clinic I went to watch. She explained that she evented up to a decent level on her Irish mare but they'd started to have serious issues in all their ridden work. After dabbling with this groundwork method for around 6 months, she realised the problem. Mirroring. That her horse was reacting to her own approach to life, to her horse, to her own emotional issues. And she's the one dealing with the horse day in day out, the mare was getting no other input to "smooth her out". She went to therapy and only then did she start to see eye to eye with the horse, and to slowly make progress.

Therapy horses, RDA horses, even ponies for younger children, have other influences in their lives to help them soak up the energy of the humans around them. Paralympic horses are "tuned up" and made symmetrical etc by other talented riders. They HAVE to have these systems in place otherwise the horses suffer.

Horses arrive in new places with HUGE anxiety themselves and we do need to reassure them. It's our responsibility to make them feel better about life, or to be able to supply people and conditions who can do that for them. They are prey animals, if they can't shift the hell out of a situation, if they feel physically or emotionally compromised, then the slightest "threat" means death. We haven't bred it out of them so far, though good riding horses are a long way from flighty wild horses they still share these fundamentals. They depend on the herd for safety. How they behave will reflect as much about what is going on around them as how they are bred, how they are trained, what they have seen of life. If we start thinking of them as a tool for us, to make us happy, then we may overlook what the horse really needs.

Riding - the easiest load for the horse to carry is a stable load, even if the stable load is a little heavier than the unstable one. They need their bodies to feel safe while they carry a rider. To ignore their own needs, as RS horses are asked to, means they have to shut down a little bit at least. If you sit asymmetrically and you're the main rider, guess what, you'll make your horse asymmetrical and I'm sure you can imagine that isn't good for their long term soundness. Horses feel everything from their rider, you can change a horse for the better, or for the worse, very easily.

It's why we all have support teams, we all continue to learn (over many lifetimes would be ideal 😄), because even the best riders hardly ever do it alone. We get called out, lectured or helped more gently, but we all have to learn to do better, every day in order to give our horses the best possible outcomes.

I think you absolutely want the best for your horse but you're struggling, and worried, and getting muddled with what a horse needs, as the horse has to come first, they have no real choice in their lives so we must make the best choices for them.

And horses cost money. Serious money. And they take commitment, long term commitment, they live for many years, even if we wish it was longer. Owning a horse for "a couple of years" makes things hard for everyone, horses shouldn't have to change homes, owners, herd more often than is absolutely necessary, and depending on selling a horse in a short time frame isn't ideal. Not just X amount of livery per week "plus a bit" but BIG contingency funds/insurance etc to pay for things that go wrong, for a new saddle as the horse changes shape, for professional help, for veterinary or other therapeutic approaches that may not be covered by insurance.

You are where you are, learning to ride aged 60 odd is a brilliant and brave thing to do, and we're all so glad you're asking for help here, but I think really taking all of this very seriously will help you come to some decisions. I'm a professional saddle fitter of 16 years and I fit for a LOT of novice and/or nervous riders, and I'm learning, still, all the time after riding from age 9 to 36. Any reply like this when I was last a ridden horse owner (now about 20 years ago) would have been very different, less understanding of what horses need.

I remember having a meltdown because my lovely, fairly easy first horse, ex RS as it happens though a more advanced horse, would pull back occasionally when tied up. I didn't even realise it was something I should and could train him for, and the YOs didn't help either. I'm better for it, and hope I can explain some of these ideas in a way that helps clarify things for more novice or nervous horse owners and riders (and often very experienced owners too, we all have our baggage!), help them see horses in a different way.

And once you focus on connection and placing your horse at the centre of everything you may find that you see things entirely differently - riding is not the be-all and end-all and there are more and more riders quitting and just keeping horses to spend time with. After all, we spend time with our dogs and cats and don't love them any less for it, they're just a bit cheaper I guess!

(The saddle might be an issue but stock and western saddles aren't necessarily the answer, especially if deep seated which makes getting on and off more difficult. Fitting the pelvis for stability allows for a very secure feeling in a more open seat but very few fitters work this way and there are SO many deep seated saddles! At some point in the future more than happy to chat how saddle fitting might help the situation rather than potentially hinder it)
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
I think its a bit weird the rs wont get on him. How do they go and test out potential horses for the rs?

Others will have more idea so this is just a suggestion, but would a stock saddle provide Jasmine with a bit more security and support her arthritis? Ive never used one but seen them suggested on here so others who know more?
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Open to suggestions regarding this. Anyone with experience of them?
Would riding with longer stirrups help with balance?
 
Jasmine2023 said:
Open to suggestions regarding this. Anyone with experience of them?
Would riding with longer stirrups help with balance?
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Depends how long your stirrups are already.
If they are short then dropping a hole may help.

I ride medium - long ish. It was suggested by a trainer I drop my stirrups a hole, I tried it and persevered for 6 weeks (thinking I'd get used to it). During that time I couldn't ride for sh*t! I felt like a beginner all over again. I couldn't get my balance.
I gave up and put them back up a hole.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
Would riding with longer stirrups help with balance?
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Personal choice I think - the younger and spookier the horse, the shorter the stirrup for me. I like to be able to stand up away from all the nonsense going on underneath me and wait for them to chill

Dressage on my established 9 y/o - much longer stirrups

Pilates and other similar core stability exercises away from the horse will help with your balance more than anything.

Pop your saddle over the arm of your sofa and watch TV while standing up in the saddle - that'll tell you what your balance is like !
 
misst said:
Im not sure a variety of novicey riders in a riding school would be beneficial to the horse. He'll end up confused and bored/frustrated I would think at best. He needs his own education to learn to move correctly before teaching people to ride
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Thank you. I cannot understand why some posters are encouraging putting a newly backed five year old into working livery.
 
Having just read your recent post. Please stop riding this horse until his saddle has been properly fitted and checked by a suitably qualified person.

His mouth and teeth should also be looked at and an appointment with a bodyworker, of some kind, would not go amiss.

I really would not be looking for advice from the RS/RI that advised you as a very novice rider with limited knowledge to buy a young horse unseen from Ireland. Please tell me that you at least had a five stage vetting done?

Never mind riding, where is your horse care and management knowledge level at? You write about sometimes being able to brush his legs, are you not picking out his hooves daily?

The Pony Club manual would be a good starting point, perhaps along with the Learning to Ride as an Adult books. Susan McBane writes very easy to read books about horse care and management.
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
I think its a bit weird the rs wont get on him. How do they go and test out potential horses for the rs?

Others will have more idea so this is just a suggestion, but would a stock saddle provide Jasmine with a bit more security and support her arthritis? Ive never used one but seen them suggested on here so others who know more?
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This would be worth investigating: poley knee rolls (thigh, really) aren’t foolproof, but will give extra support if the horse does a lightning 180, or an exuberant ‘bounce’ or shoots forward etc. Cantles may be higher, but I know two arthritis-compromised riders who can now only ride in Aussie stock saddles, including small hunt jumps for one of them.
The other rider has hip issues, he steps on board from a mounting block, and dismounting, leans right along the horse’s neck, kicks up both legs together, kind of lying briefly along the horse’s back, then drops both his legs together down to the ground - hanging onto the poley for balance. Bit flamboyant, but horse is sensible, works perfectly.
If you’ve got a quiet animal, could probably bring one leg over the pommel, sit aside and drop down that way. See if you can borrow a stock saddles?
Side saddle? Some riders with disability/ limited strength can only continue riding in these, the two pommels are quite securing.
 
NR88 said:
Having just read your recent post. Please stop riding this horse until his saddle has been properly fitted and checked by a suitably qualified person.

His mouth and teeth should also be looked at and an appointment with a bodyworker, of some kind, would not go amiss.

I really would not be looking for advice from the RS/RI that advised you as a very novice rider with limited knowledge to buy a young horse unseen from Ireland. Please tell me that you at least had a five stage vetting done?

Never mind riding, where is your horse care and management knowledge level at? You write about sometimes being able to brush his legs, are you not picking out his hooves daily?

The Pony Club manual would be a good starting point, perhaps along with the Learning to Ride as an Adult books. Susan McBane writes very easy to read books about horse care and management.
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I mentioned brushing his legs I think in response to someone mentioned he may be fearful of something touching his hind area. He has no issues with this or his feet picking.
I did a horse care course at a different riding school a few years ago and have asked for help where needed.
He's on full livery.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
There's a lot to digest.
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It is an awful lot of information and the majority is positive. We do genuinely want to help both you and your lovely pony.

We are here to give advise and hand hold too. HHO in general is a supportive bunch.

I've just had a thought about you getting unseated/unbalanced in trot. I had a youngster that for a long time sort of skipped into trot a bit like a happy toddler. It was very uphill and forward and could easily leave you behind if you weren't expecting it. If you can get some help learning to lunge (if backed following the traditional methods your pony should know how to do this easily) you could watch his transition up into trot which might give you a better understanding of what to expect when asking for the trot.

I still think you need a pro ride him for you. In an ideal world you would be able to hop on afterwards and cool him off and talk through the session with the pro - even if it was only once a week.
 
There is a lot of positive replies and I am grateful I just really worry about the ones that advise me not to get on him especially to hack out and to sell him. The hacking is the only thing I can do which I feel more comfortable about. So in my head I have to think between selling him and giving up riding altogether or persevering and trying to work with him and other more experienced people funds allowing. That's where I am at at the moment. I have had an offer of an experienced rider coming to see him and do an assessment of him which I need to think about.
 
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