Trouble at a college that specialises in equines

Hal1k1

Hal1k1

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My niece began attending a famous agricultural college in the south in September. She has been really worried by the tutors lack of interest in the care of the loaned horses and safety of the pupils. Already several pupils have had to be taken to hospital because they were allocated horses too sharp for them. She has seen 13.2hh ponies with 6ft+ rugs on them back to front so the tail strap is over their heads and the belly straps were not done up so they were getting caught up round their hind legs, and one girl crawled under the ponies belly to untangle it.

Horses are being given the wrong amounts and types of feed so consequently one of the horses in another group of students got colic today. Luckily a bright student realised why it was trying to lay down ran to the trainers who took no notice for 10 minutes and then all hell broke loose when they eventually did check.

My sister is furious but doesn't want to cause trouble for my niece but she definately does not want to leave it.

What would be the best way for her to approach the college as my niece says that it is the most recognised equine college in the south?
 
Raise the issues, whilst mistakes will be made (everyone has to learn) if they are being made frequently and put others at risk then whoever is in charge needs to be informed that people are not happy. It wont cause issues, this sort of thing needs to be mentioned to someone higher up otherwise they will go unresolved. The best way is simply to be polite and to the point, there are things that people are not happy with. So long as people don't go in shouting and accusing there is no wrong way, don't place blame just point out what has been going on.
 
Hal1k1 said:
My niece began attending a famous agricultural college in the south in September. She has been really worried by the tutors lack of interest in the care of the loaned horses and safety of the pupils. Already several pupils have had to be taken to hospital because they were allocated horses too sharp for them. She has seen 13.2hh ponies with 6ft+ rugs on them back to front so the tail strap is over their heads and the belly straps were not done up so they were getting caught up round their hind legs, and one girl crawled under the ponies belly to untangle it.

Horses are being given the wrong amounts and types of feed so consequently one of the horses in another group of students got colic today. Luckily a bright student realised why it was trying to lay down ran to the trainers who took no notice for 10 minutes and then all hell broke loose when they eventually did check.

My sister is furious but doesn't want to cause trouble for my niece but she definately does not want to leave it.

What would be the best way for her to approach the college as my niece says that it is the most recognised equine college in the south?
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I have a friend whose motto is 'Consider the source'. In this case the source is a 16yr old girl, attending college for the first time, who by definition doesn't know what she is doing (or much about horses either, although she probably believes herself an expert).
I don't think your niece is the best judge of correct feeding, or of which horse is suitable for which rider. As an aside here, most of the students in equine colleges say they want to train and school horses as a career - but most of them also whinge if they have to ride anything sharper than the riding school dobbins they are used to! :D
Regarding the rug fitting problems - students have to learn how to fit rugs properly, and the only way to learn is to practice.
If I were you, I'd take your niece out of college as fast as you can - this will save her from further lack of recognition of her expertise - and the college will probably thank you too! :p
S :D
 
Shilasdair said:
I have a friend whose motto is 'Consider the source'. In this case the source is a 16yr old girl, attending college for the first time, who by definition doesn't know what she is doing (or much about horses either, although she probably believes herself an expert).
I don't think your niece is the best judge of correct feeding, or of which horse is suitable for which rider. As an aside here, most of the students in equine colleges say they want to train and school horses as a career - but most of them also whinge if they have to ride anything sharper than the riding school dobbins they are used to! :D
Regarding the rug fitting problems - students have to learn how to fit rugs properly, and the only way to learn is to practice.
If I were you, I'd take your niece out of college as fast as you can - this will save her from further lack of recognition of her expertise - and the college will probably thank you too! :p
S :D
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Another post requiring a "like" button:)
 
Agree on 'consider your source' but there are plenty of people on here (and owners of horses) who've had less than ideal experiences at well-recognized institutions. And, having seen some of the pupils of these places in action at other stables it is certainly true that I'd want them /very/ well-supervised if dealing with any horse cared for (well, any horse at all really!). If there are specific incidents that worry your niece then she could try keeping a diary. Accidents will happen occasionally everywhere but if there gets to be a pattern that is a problem. Institutions will have heads, boards, etc. A polite, calm approach, listing the incidents is better than a general feeling that things aren't right.
 
Whilst I agree with the 'consider the source' theory, if it is the college I`m thinking it is i`ve seen and heard of some pretty worrying occurrences (from reliable sources!) of late and was horrified to see students out pulling ragwort the other week without a pair of gloves between them, appalling!
 
Go and have a look yourself.
Write a letter or phone explaining your concerns.
And again, what Shils said. Bearing in mind colleges have a minimum requirement of horses being 14.3\15hh....
 
I think this thread is a bit suspicious! In reality, how many people would go on an equine course having absolutely no knowledge of horses at all? Incapable of putting on a rug when it doesn't take a genius to recognise the front and back end of a rug??? Colleges of further education have to comply with all sorts of H&S regulations, and I can only begin to guess the extra raft of them pertaining to what is after all, a high risk course. The "fact" that several people have had to go to hospital and nothing seems to have been done as a result also sounds very fishy. I work in a university and even near-misses are dealt with very strictly to ensure that standards are maintained and lessons are learned.
 
fatpiggy said:
I think this thread is a bit suspicious! In reality, how many people would go on an equine course having absolutely no knowledge of horses at all? Incapable of putting on a rug when it doesn't take a genius to recognise the front and back end of a rug??? Colleges of further education have to comply with all sorts of H&S regulations, and I can only begin to guess the extra raft of them pertaining to what is after all, a high risk course. The "fact" that several people have had to go to hospital and nothing seems to have been done as a result also sounds very fishy. I work in a university and even near-misses are dealt with very strictly to ensure that standards are maintained and lessons are learned.
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Actually years ago I decided to do an old fashioned Working Pupil course to try to take my AI. I was told that because my knowledge was good and my riding was good, it would take a year. There were girls there who had been told they would need 3 years !, some of them could barely ride. I had always assumed you would already be a competant rider/carer or horses before you went on a course like this, but that is an incorrect assumption.
 
Hmmm, there's another similar thread on her at the mo entitled "would you send your horse to college" or similar, so worth having a look at that one .....

Its easy to jump to conclusions. Mine was at equestrian college on working loan and was regularly used by students. All students will have gone through a "riding assessment" before being allowed to ride - and IMO the standard of riding isn't high at many colleges, certainly not at the one mine was at; if you could just sit on a horse that was good enough! One of the things students have to learn early on is that not every horse is called "Plod" or "Dobbin" and this is part of their learning, how to deal with complex horses that are far more challenging than anything they've seen at riding school, and more typical of the type of horses they would encounter in their future employment were they to gain a job in the equine industry at say a dealers yard, or racing stable, or what-have-you. So if they can't cut the mustard and deal with something challenging then to be brutally honest they're better taking a hike sooner rather than later.

IF however, students are genuinely being over-horsed too early and made to take risks they're not happy with, then that is a matter for the Yard Manager at the college to take on board and its maybe that some of the horses there are plainly unsuitable for college use and the owners should be asked to take them away for some re-schooling. Whilst my horse benefitted immensely from the schooling he had at college, a lot of owners think its the college's job to re-school difficult horses - it isn't!!!! And for horses with any sort of "issue", college is going to be the worst place for them as they'll soon learn how to get away with unacceptable behaviour.

IF there are any concerns about dangerous horses and/or students getting injured or doing things which are apparently dangerous with the horses, then I think the first step is to speak with the Yard Manager; it will be their responsibility to oversee everything that happens within the yard and frankly its no good whinging on a forum like this when the YM should have been approached, when any concerns could have been sorted out.

Studying "equine" at college isn't a soft option; a lot of students go in all gooey eyed about it - but by the time the first half term comes round a lot of them have realised just what jolly hard work it is!!! Its not easy getting up on horses that are corn-fed and fit (like you'd get on any professional yard tho') and again if there are welfare issues with horses getting colic or whatever, that is something that should be discussed between the owners and the YM.
 
i am studying something, which is based at a big equestrian college in the south. my first impressions were 'wow! fab facilities', quickly followed by 'eek, the horses don't get out much'...

however... after meeting some of the senior staff, and seeing how it is managed, i can't really fault it THAT much. i think when the college is so large, and the number of horses so enormous, it can be easy to find a horse in a badly fitting rug/saddle/getting the wrong food etc... however, on the whole, apart from the lack of turnout and slight conveyor belt feeling i think the horse's best interests are priority.

i was amazed at the sheer number of complete novices there. i always presumed you'd be a 'horsey' person with a horsey background to go to one of those colleges... but, jeeeez, so many total novices learning the absolute basics. that must be a real strain on the senior staff too.

a horse got colic whilst i was there... and it was treated promptly and well. in fact, the YM noticed the colic despite the horse not displaying any 'normal' symptoms. and the vet was called immediately. when there are that many horses, the majority of them in for most of the day throughout the winter... there will be cases of colic/lameness/other issues.

x
 
There is a college not too far from here which I do have first hand knowledge with.
The other posters to say about absolute beginners allowed on courses is right in spite of there being a standard limit in place before acceptance. There are some accepted that have never ridden before let alone have any basic knowledge or affinity with horses and these are lumped in with the other more experienced crowd that are held back because they are not allowed to go any faster (in learning) than the least able even though some of the others are at least B test standard; it is very unfair but it seems the college will take anyone of any standard to keep up its quota in case it loses funding. I would never ever employ someone with only basic college qualifications and no practical knowledge but these are let out into the world with a scrap of paper that means fig all and they expect a job they are nowhere near competent enough for from the start rather than start at the bottom which can be so dangerous. I'm sorry, many of the colleges are a joke which spoils it for the decent ones with students that actually want to do the job not just to fill up the course.

Incidentally, anyone think that 3kg of hay is sufficient for a 16.1 ID x TB cob - to last it from 9am to 6pm with no other food during that time, not turned out and expected to do 2 x 1hour lessons? That is what those in charge decreed Within a fortnight on that regime the poor horse had had a complete temperament change from a happy willing horse to one that would snap at anyone and boot them out of the box in frustration let alone be a total pig to ride; he was so hungry, it was cruel. Luckily the owner was able to send him to me (his breeder) where he gave a great sigh of relief going into his old box and never put a foot wrong ever since - and was fed accordingly for his weight and workload.
 
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I put the question up because although my neice has plenty of experience as our family has always had horses and ponies and she has had to help with the day to day care as well as riding she wants to have some qualifications when she finishes the course.

She doesn't want my sister to do anything because she doesn't want any comeback, but we feel that something should be mentioned because some of the new friends she has made clearly have had little contact with horses before. My nece came home after the first week saying she had had a very nice sensible cob to look after who wasn't sharp at all when ridden and she had really enjoyed him.

It is not only the pupils at risk though you don't have to be cruel to hurt a horse but if you don't have any experience surely you should have some supervision when entering any stable?
 
"Maesfen" above makes some good points which I can agree with having had mine at equestrian college.

Often when I visited mine when he was there, it was a bit of a case of "the lunatics are running the asylum", where second year students were supervising the junior levels - and although there were presumably staff around, somewhere, they weren't actually supervising very much really (probably doing the endless paperwork that's necessary).

With some horses the regime doesn't suit them: mine often only got to go out for grazing for a morning or afternoon a week, which as a cob wasn't nearly enough for him really. Most colleges have a distinct lack of turnout, which is another reason for the horses being cranky. Mine was corn-fed rather than given anything to bulk him up, which is what I'd do at home with him, so was frequently scatty & scooty to ride out, not like his normal laid-back self at all. The lack of turnout is probably why so many horses at the college referred to were getting colic.

Agree that often the criteria in accepting students is about bums on seats (or saddles!!) rather than aptitude and ability, or some other criteria such as ethnicity/academic ability (or lack of it!). Some students there are blatently unsuitable for working within the equine industry - they think its an "easy/soft" choice when in fact they'd be far better off (and so would the college!) if they went and got a job somewhere.

Perhaps owners need to be the ones to speak up and change things? Colleges can't exist without people who are willing to let their horses come to college, but if you read the other thread I've referred to, i.e. "would you send your horse to college?", then its obvious that colleges need to get their acts together a bit more to encourage owners to let them have their horses. As an owner, I was treated deferentially enough, but there was an unwritten code of "dont interfere" and I would have appreciated perhaps being kept in the picture a bit more of how my boy was doing, asked about feed etc rather than the "we know best" attitude.
 
There's a myriad of misapprehensions evident in the replies on this post;
Firstly, equine colleges will never turn an applicant down - they need the fee money. Oh yes, colleges do 'riding assessments', interviews and minimum levels of GCSEs but it is impossible to turn any applicant away.
Secondly, regarding supervision - if the college has 250 equine students, do you really think there can be 250 tutors giving them one-to-one supervision?
Thirdly, the concern about 'students going to hospital'. Students fall off - say there are 200 hours of riding per day - then you are going to get some falls. Colleges take no risks - and ship them off to A & E even if they think there's nothing wrong.
Fourthly - sometimes students are drama queens, and sometimes they even lie to mummy and daddy.
Fifthly - there are many nice jobs as receptionists, secretaries etc for those that can't cut it academically or practically in the equine industry. :D
S :D
 
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