Trouble with buying dispute

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bekkalou93

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Hi all, not sure if this is the right forum lounge - apologies if not!

A few months ago I verbally agreed to purchase a horse for £1000. The owners of the horse then left the premises where I worked at the time leaving the horse there. While I had paid a deposit of £250 I had not paid for the horse however was made responsible for her care, including livery over this time and upkeep.
As I began working with her I noticed a few issues with her temperament and changes in her attitude. After seeking advice the general opinion was that she was in pain. Understandably at this point I stopped working her. I paid for therapy sessions on top of the usual upkeep of her and informed the owners of her problems, stating that I no longer wished to go through with the purchase, however as I’d had her for a few months did not want my deposit back.
Shortly after we vacated the premises as the old owners returned, and as I had informed them that I no longer wanted to carry on with the purchase of the horse, I chose to leave her there.
The owners are now insisting I pay the full balance for the horse and have on more than one occasion tried to get me to sign a hand-written contract of payment. They are also threatening that as of the end of this year (2012) I should pay livery for the horse. The are insisting that she is 'my' horse despite the fact I have only paid a deposit.

I am hoping to write a letter to the owners later on today however if anybody has any advice or has been in a similar situation I would be grateful of any tips you may have! I am currently unemployed and with no assets, I have paid arm and leg to look after this horse and am devastated that an already difficult situation is being made harder by these people.

Thank you in advance! Becky :)
 
Did you get to the root of the pain issues?
What was the arrangement to pay the balance?
Did you get the passport or register change of owner?
It is a bit bizarre that rather than keep your £250 and take the horse back and resell it, they are wanting the remaining balance from you - unless the horse is worthless? It sounds like you can't afford to keep her either, in which case if she is unsellable i would advise owners you are going to pts but not pay balance due to undisclosed issues?
 
It sounds as though the delay in payment has unfortunately caused confusion about the ownership of the poor horse. How come you only paid the deposit? Was a trial period explicitly agreed?

If not then I would guess legally the horse is yours as you have part paid for her.
 
"A few months ago I verbally agreed to purchase a horse for £1000. The owners of the horse then left the premises where I worked at the time leaving the horse there. While I had paid a deposit of £250 I had not paid for the horse however was made responsible for her care, including livery over this time and upkeep."

Quoting your words above, it sounds like you agreed to buy the horse. And to pay the full amount later.

Unless a trial period was agreed. I think when you agreed to buy the horse for £1000 and handed over £250 ownership moved to you, and you owe them £750.

The fact the horse then turned out to have issues is not relevant.

Who has the passport?

Poor horse :-(
 
Thanks everyone!

I agreed to pay a deposit as they wouldn't let me get her feet done other wise and she was in a shocking state.
At the time of paying the deposit - before I started working her and became aware of the issues (she was virtually untouched when I got her), I was prepared and able to pay in full for her however the owners did not send me their bank information so I could do a transfer until after I informed them of the problems I was having.
As there was no receipt or written acknowledgement of my paying of the deposit there were no agreements regarding paying livery etc. During the time she was in my care I paid livery to the site owners, however as the owners of the horse returned to the site and regained the horse I have not paid anything towards livery since. It's quite complicated and I'm sorry if I haven't explained it very well!
I did get the passport and on a few occasions have tried to return it to them however they have refused to take it. As I have only paid the deposit in my mind they should have the passport.
A few local people I have talked to have said they can be quite difficult with such matters, and to me the return of the horse and passport, along with keeping the deposit would be no loss to them.
 
Maybe try the BHS helpline (membership is only £60) and you'll get other benefits. They may be able to advise you - but you've said above the only reason you didn't pay the full balance was because you didn't get bank details ie, there was no trial period and the horse was purchased by you the day you handed the £250 over.

Unfortunately you're not alone in finding out a horse has issues shortly after purchase and hence trying to return it
 
I also think you are liable to pay the balance. A deposit is a promise to buy not a promise to try (unintentionally rhyming sorry!)

If you find this is definitely the case then your next course of action could be to look at what problems the horse has and whether they were undisclosed. Since it was virtually un-handleable when you bought it I do think you'd be on dodgy ground there too sadly as no one could have known much about how it would react to being worked with
 
I sort of agree with the seller you bought the horse as sold as seen? Knew it was untouched. How do the sellers know that you have not caused the problems? Perhaps they should have made you pay in full at the time of sale rather than dally. I appreciate you may have been left with horse with issues but if it does have issues it may be easier to agree to PTS. Plus you have the passport so it seems pretty much the sale was going ahead(most people wouldnt hand this over without being happy the sale was done).Seems you have had the horse a while now?

Sorry may be not want you want to hear but either agree a reduced price, pay up or you go to a solicitor. Poor horse.
 
What would have happened, OP, if the horse had broken a leg and needed to be put down whilst you had it? Would you still be disinclined to pay the outstanding balance?
 
Can see why owners wld be peed off, thinkin they have sold the horse, only for you to back out ?

sold as seen surely u took that into consideration ?

Id personaly b annoyed as in the time you have pulled out they cld of sold her to someone else ....


But thats just my opinion
 
Rileyboy said:
Can see why owners wld be peed off, thinkin they have sold the horse, only for you to back out ?

sold as seen surely u took that into consideration ?

Id personaly b annoyed as in the time you have pulled out they cld of sold her to someone else ....


But thats just my opinion
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Have to agree with above, that said, you paid a deposit and the upkeep going forward which would constitute a contract, in the absence of a formal agreement a court will look at what has actually been done by each party, from what you have said it would appear you carried out the agreement apart from paying the balance and then changed your mind. IMO you could be liable for any costs that have been reasonably incurred by the seller in keeping and reselling the horse including any loss they make on the sale. Sorry to not offer any comfort here but it is you who has broken the original terms however good your reason.
 
I think you need to get some qualified legal advice.
I wonder what some posters' answer would have been if you had posted 'I paid £250 deposit and want to move my horse but seller won't let me until I've paid the balance'. Would they have then said, 'you paid the deposit therefore it's your horse, move it if you like'? I doubt it.
 
I agree with the others you bought the horse. It wasn't on loan to you with payment by installment, it was sold to you but you hadn't handed over full payment. Is the horse worth 750 pounds? The easiest thing to do would be to sell it and give the old owners the money. It means them waiting until you've sold it but better than them not getting paid at all. As for paying the yard, I can only suggest you give them 10 pounds a month or something until the debt is cleared. It's your horse so your livery fees. Alternatively if you have no morals you could let people sue you, since you're unemployed with no assets there won't be much they can do, you can't get blood out of a stone, after all. Since its your horse I would move it to the cheapest yard you can. Or sell to a dealer or at auction for a quick sale. I'm not sure from your post if the horse is pain free now, but in an ideal world if the horse has current unresolved pain issues I think you should PTS rather than sell, (a horse in pain won't be worth much anyway), but I'm guessing you can't afford to PTS either.
 
You don't have to do anything.

However, the owners could sue you for breach of contract. You would be liable for any losses they have incurred. Now, a court may decide that they haven't lost anything or done anything to mitigate their losses (eg sell the horse to someone else) and you may be ordered to pay them nothing at all!
 
Thanks all!

I rang a solicitor specialising in equine this morning. She was great and talking to someone who knows what they're talking about legal-wise and has horses of their own was fab.
She's advised me to write a letter notifying of termination of purchase, as given the circumstances (them leaving the horse in my care when they left despite me not paying full balance) means that if they wish to pursue matters I can claim back all the costs I had for her over that time - totalling almost £900.
I am now hoping they will take the passport back and not wish to take things further - as it would seem a lot of stress and hassle just to break even.

In any other circumstance I would happily pay and accept that I have taken the horse on and it's now my responsibility, however as the horse was simply left with me without me having paid in full - which would have been done had they given me the bank details in the first place, I am not happy to back down and pay the money for a horse which I don't have room, time or money for on top of everything else.

Thanks everyone for your opinions and suggestions :)
 
I am not happy to back down and pay the money for a horse which I don't have room, time or money for on top of everything else.
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Although you did have the room, time and money for it initially??

Anyway, thanks for the update.
 
Yes, I did have the time, money and space for her initially.
I have since lost my job and yard and am now renovating an old farm to start a new yard with no funds and too many horses which I am desperately trying to find new fantastic homes for.
As you can imagine it's all been a bit of a kick in the teeth but where there's a will, there's a way :)
 
A deposit creates an 'intention to purchase' subject to any other terms that may have been agreed between the different parties concerned at the time of the vendors taking the deposit. The vendors should have given you a written receipt for the deposit with and terms written on it.

In the absense of any written receipt for a deposit this will imply that you had purchased the horse (especially as you had paid the expenses of the horse) but still owe the vendors the balance.
 
OP, how would you feel if you'd been happy with the horse and the owners sold him to someone else before you'd paid the balance?

It works both ways, a deal is a deal!
 
I understand the seller would be very annoyed, but in my eyes a deposit is an agreement to buy, but isn't the point of the deposit that if you chose not to buy you lose the deposit but the seller keeps the horse?
It depends whether or not you agreed on a 'deposit' or to pay by instalment. Ditto the others though, get some legal advice.
 
Difficult situation but if somebody put a deposit down on my horse I would take that as a contract to buy. We put a deposit down a couple of months ago and we agreed in writing when and where the next lot would be paid and when she is to be paid for in total. That was my instigation not the sellers and they were very casual but I was worried they might sell her elsewhere.
She is staying where she is until total paid though and I am paying all expenses and helping look after her
 
bekkalou93 said:
Yes, I did have the time, money and space for her initially.
I have since lost my job and yard and am now renovating an old farm to start a new yard with no funds and too many horses which I am desperately trying to find new fantastic homes for.
As you can imagine it's all been a bit of a kick in the teeth but where there's a will, there's a way :)
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well its jolly lucky for you then that you have found a way to foist horse back on seller but I would be furious if I were the seller - your bad luck is not their responsibility. They should have got the money from you on day 1.

Normally a deposit is to reserve a horse until you get it vetted (returnable if fails vetting) and until you come and collect it so they dont sell it to someone else in the meantime ie the horse is still with the seller. Or there is a formal loan with view to buy contract if it moves to the buyer. In this case however it is different - the OP bought the horse and took it but simply hasnt paid the full amount for it - they admit they bought it, they took it home and had use of it.

Im not sure the lawyer is right - since if the above interpretation is correct, then you owned the horse from the day you took it home and the costs after that are your costs of looking after your horse and not recoverable just because you dont want the horse anymore (for whatever reason). If I were the seller I would be pursuing it legally.
 
Verbal agreements are not worth the paper... air they're dispelled on! It's similar in a way to buying a car, if you put down a deposit and then the next day you change your mind, you forfeit your deposit (which you've done) and you walk away trouble free as you have not had any written agreements or contracts, and should you then leave and you have advised the owners that you have no intention to buy, then you are not obliged for any further costs from the day that you walked away and told them of your intentions.

I'm not an expert don't get me wrong but my mum worked in a Solicitors for over 10 years and has just given me that little anecdote to help :)
 
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