Troublesome Youngster

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nan_bit

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I am looking for some advice as to recent changes in behaviour of my youngster... He came to me in quite bad condition and as such the first few months were spent trying to get him up to weight and all of his condition faults ironed out. He is now in good condition and in a settled daily routine.

In hand and from the ground he is well behaved. As with most young horses I have encountered some things to excite him alot, such as "new" horses (he seems to want to make friends with everybody he meets), but other than that, he is very sensible and patient. He deals well with traffic and heavy machinery (he is stabled near a busy farm and the yard owners are currently having a new stable block built), behaves for the vet, dentist and farrier, will load first time and travels perfectly well. He is very intelligent and polite, astoundingly so for his age, yet really shows himself up under saddle. His naughtiness has really knocked my confidence and resulted in a bit of a nasty fall a few weeks ago.
He is 5yo, 15.1hh and 3/4 thoroughbred.

Under saddle, I first thought he was cold-backed, as it always took him 15-20mins to settle into work properly. However, quite recently, he took to very much disliking being ridden - constantly. He is nappy, doesn't move off the leg and most of all has begun to carry his head practically on the vertical. On the lunge and in long-reins, however (whether with a saddle or a roller) he carries himself in a nice outline and works nicely from the off, always settling quickly.

The vet seems to see no changes in his conformation or back which might have caused this rather sudden change in attitude to being ridden. This is how I came to wonder if it is simply a case of his not being the riding "type"?

Thank you for reading all of that, and for your help!
 
Sorry i am going to ask the usual question - have you had his back / saddle checked? It sounds a bit like there could be some discomfort somewhere.
 
Yes, my vet has checked his back twice now and his saddle was checked a week or so before his little hissy-fit a few weeks ago... A lady I know who drives recommended contacting Fiona McLellan for an examination, if anyone has used / heard of her I would be grateful of their experiences.
 
You had a fall quite recently and he has started to dislike being ridden quite recently which doesn't seem to be physical. Did his antics start before the fall and cause it or was the fall a result of something else? It can really shake youngsters up the first time a rider comes off and if the rider is (even unconciously) a bit nervous afterwards young horses can feel it like you wouldn't believe.

Have you got any other calmer horses you can ride just so you can see if you "feel" any different? After a particularly challenging week with my baby this winter I happened to be riding a friend's horse when a dog ran up to the fence and barked - I jumped off the saddle! The horse didn't react one bit but it certainly helped me understand why my mare had been so tense to hack out for the last couple of days but I hadn't seen it when I was on her as she was reacting instantly to my movements and effectively "coming with me" when I tensed up.

Just a thought....hopefully you have someone experienced to work with who will help you both keep trusting each other, confidence can be a fragile thing even for the best of riders.
 
Again, yes! This is why I'm nearing my wits end... He has had his teeth checked by the vet and apparently had the dentist out the week before he came to me... I have tried him in a few "softer" bits but under saddle they make little difference.
 
I would get an osteo, chiro, physio to check his back. My 4 yr old has just been exhibiting abnormal behaviour when ridden and i got the vet to check her back and they said she was fine, but i then got an osteopath who said she was really quite sore in her withers, shoulder and poll. Vets aren't that good on backs etc in my experience. My mare has definitely seemed better since she has been treated.

Agree with measles re the teeth too.

I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt until you have checked all these things, particularly as its unusal behaviour for him.
 
I would agree with the others that have said you need to get him checked out by a specialist who will be able to analyse the back / neck far better than a vet will (IME anyway). I would also check his teeth again, I always use an EDT rather than a vet FWIW just to make sure.

Good luck.
 
Suziq77 said:
You had a fall quite recently and he has started to dislike being ridden quite recently which doesn't seem to be physical. Did his antics start before the fall and cause it or was the fall a result of something else? It can really shake youngsters up the first time a rider comes off and if the rider is (even unconciously) a bit nervous afterwards young horses can feel it like you wouldn't believe.

Have you got any other calmer horses you can ride just so you can see if you "feel" any different? After a particularly challenging week with my baby this winter I happened to be riding a friend's horse when a dog ran up to the fence and barked - I jumped off the saddle! The horse didn't react one bit but it certainly helped me understand why my mare had been so tense to hack out for the last couple of days but I hadn't seen it when I was on her as she was reacting instantly to my movements and effectively "coming with me" when I tensed up.

Just a thought....hopefully you have someone experienced to work with who will help you both keep trusting each other, confidence can be a fragile thing even for the best of riders.
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This does make sense, Suziq77, as when I rode my Mum's horse Lucas recently, I was very jumpy, which was totally not needed as he is such a steady man.

I have my Mum to help me and my friend, but I always worry that his behaviour will result in one of them being injured.
 
I would not be inclined to believe what the vendor said - if they said his teeth had been done before you got him. I have just bought a new horse and pretty much everything I was told, has turned out to be a lie. So, if you haven't actually had his teeth checked, I'd get them done again.
 
BigRed said:
I would not be inclined to believe what the vendor said - if they said his teeth had been done before you got him. I have just bought a new horse and pretty much everything I was told, has turned out to be a lie. So, if you haven't actually had his teeth checked, I'd get them done again.
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On this occasion I would be inclined to agree with you, BigRed... All of the claims made by the vendor in relation to the horse have been unfounded. Such as his out-of-date vaccinations and being riddled with worms after a supposed clear worm count from the vet prior to the sale.

Such dishonesty is what makes it such a tricky industry to operate in.
 
Supanova said:
I would get an osteo, chiro, physio to check his back. My 4 yr old has just been exhibiting abnormal behaviour when ridden and i got the vet to check her back and they said she was fine, but i then got an osteopath who said she was really quite sore in her withers, shoulder and poll. Vets aren't that good on backs etc in my experience. My mare has definitely seemed better since she has been treated.

Agree with measles re the teeth too.

I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt until you have checked all these things, particularly as its unusal behaviour for him.
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Thanks, Supernova. With reference to teeth, would you say the vet is suitable or should I call an "equine dentist"?

Also, Is it best to get the saddle fitter involved with the back person?
 
nan_bit said:
Yes, my vet has checked his back twice now and his saddle was checked a week or so before his little hissy-fit a few weeks ago... .
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Personally I think vets are useless when it comes to backs, teeth and hooves! So I would definately get a back specialist out - when mine changed behaviour a few months ago I got one out and he was literally fixed on that one appointment, totally back to normal the next day and since. I would also strongly advise getting a different saddler out to double check the fit - some saddlers are useless (I speak as someone who on changing saddler found the original saddler had fitted totally the wrong saddle to my horse)!
 
Get a recommended EDT (Equine Dental Technician) to look at your horses teeth, not the vet. I am sure someone on here could recommend you one in your area.

Then get a recommended physio to check out his back, your physio should also be able to give you some advice on the fit of your saddle. After the physio has been then get your saddler out and voice any opinion of your physio to your saddler and see what they have to say. Again go on recommendation - there are so many ''professionals'' out there who really have no idea what they are doing........

Although saying that i actually have a vet coming to look at my 3yr olds teeth next week as ive not got a decent EDT in my area and the vet is my next option.
 
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I would go for a qualified equine dentist as they are specialists in their area, whereas obviously vets have to be a generalist in a lot of things.

I would see what the back person said first and what they find. They are usually pretty good at giving you an idea of the area which is painful and what might have caused the pain. For example, the osteo told me that my girl was sore behind the saddle and in the withers, shoulder and poll and that he suspected she had done a big buck in the field and put herself out. Hence, i know that it isn't the saddle causing the issue. If the back person you get says that your boy is sore in the saddle area then i would get the saddle fitter involved as well.

Try not to worry too much - if it is pain, i'm sure it will be something easily fixable. Of course it also might not be pain and it could be behaviour, but like i've said, given that its unusual behaviour, its best to dismiss these possiblities first!

This horsey business is so difficult. There are so many "specialists" out there and quite often they aren't right in their diagnosis. I have learned over the last few years that i need to arm myself with as many people as possible (i.e. physio and osteo, dentist etc) to make sure i just don't one view. Your gut feel will often be right too and i think it is important to trust your instincts despite what the "experts" are saying. I know the horse is new to you but do you have a gut feel about what might be causing it?
 
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