True rigs (blood test confirmed), any experiences?

fuze

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 February 2013
Messages
199
Visit site
Title is pretty self explanatory, really. I've had concerns over my new boy's behaviour, so opted to have him tested. The results have come back as a pretty resounding "yes, he's a rig" (7.8 on oestrone sulphate determination...).

So... any experiences? Vets are coming back later this week to scan him, and I need to call my insurance to work out whether they'd cover surgery costs. Anyone ever had surgery / managed a true rig without surgery?

Not what I needed to hear on xmas eve. lol :frown3: Thanks guys.
 

fuze

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 February 2013
Messages
199
Visit site
Thanks for the reply - I'm assuming your boy had a full internal testicle? In regards to treating as a stallion, how far did you take that? I've not had dealings with rigs before, so I'll admit it's pretty unknown territory for me.
 

Nightmare before Christmas

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 June 2009
Messages
3,348
Location
Staffordshire
Visit site
Individual turnout, he didnt need a stallion grill but would have if needed, didnt travel next to mares, he needed a chain to lead as he was rather excited. Didnt go on walkers behind or infront of mares. Made people aware when riding to keep aware and sometimes used a red ribbon. Thats it really! He was like a normal horse but I am used to stallions!
 

Gloi

Too little time, too much to read.
Joined
8 May 2012
Messages
11,229
Location
Lancashire
Visit site
Just a query, how do horses end up as rigs these days? I've never known a vet that will attempt to castrate a colt unless both testicles have dropped and if they don't drop they take them in or send to Leahurst to remove the internal one. They'll never just remove the one that dropped.
 

fuze

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 February 2013
Messages
199
Visit site
Individual turnout, he didnt need a stallion grill but would have if needed, didnt travel next to mares, he needed a chain to lead as he was rather excited. Didnt go on walkers behind or infront of mares. Made people aware when riding to keep aware and sometimes used a red ribbon. Thats it really! He was like a normal horse but I am used to stallions!

That's interesting, thank you. He doesn't cope well with individual turnout, so we're going to explore options with the vet when they scan him in Friday. He shows all typical stallion behaviours, bar aggression. He's not aggressive in the slightest, but he does show huge interest in mares (to a point of choosing to mare-stare rather than eat), paces fence lines, vocal, can be strong on the ground, etc etc, but he's never nasty with it. Having said that, perhaps it'll be different come spring.

Just a query, how do horses end up as rigs these days? I've never known a vet that will attempt to castrate a colt unless both testicles have dropped and if they don't drop they take them in or send to Leahurst to remove the internal one. They'll never just remove the one that dropped.

I believe it's rare (the vet doing the blood tests was suitable surprised by the result). However from what I can gather from previous owners, it's possible that the castration wasn't done to the book, so to speak. Shame, really.
 

be positive

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 July 2011
Messages
19,396
Visit site
Just a query, how do horses end up as rigs these days? I've never known a vet that will attempt to castrate a colt unless both testicles have dropped and if they don't drop they take them in or send to Leahurst to remove the internal one. They'll never just remove the one that dropped.

I had a livery that only had one dropped aged 3, the vet castrated him normally then returned a few weeks later to blood test, this was the cheapest option, the bloods proved he only ever had one testicle so to have sent him for expensive invasive surgery would have been a waste of money, it could be that a vet has done similar but the blood tests were not done later for some reason.

At the time we questioned insurance paying if he required surgery, the vet said it may be possible due to the risk of problems if the retained testicle was left, so definitely worth looking into, get your vet to push the point of complications, not the behavioural issues.
 

FlaxenPony05

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2012
Messages
1,352
Visit site
OP I don't know anything about rigs but there's an interesting article about castration/rigs in Feb's Horse&Rider.

I suppose the 'should I/shouldn't I' over surgery depends partly on his character- if he were mine and he was particularly laid back/not particularly bothered by much then I may not go ahead with surgery, but in most circumstances I probably would. I just think that it you'll have a much less stressed out horse and you'll be a much less stressed out owner.

That's just my opinion and as I said I don't know anything about it so I would give definitely talk about it with the vet and give the insurance company a ring. Good luck
 

fuze

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 February 2013
Messages
199
Visit site
OP I don't know anything about rigs but there's an interesting article about castration/rigs in Feb's Horse&Rider.

I suppose the 'should I/shouldn't I' over surgery depends partly on his character- if he were mine and he was particularly laid back/not particularly bothered by much then I may not go ahead with surgery, but in most circumstances I probably would. I just think that it you'll have a much less stressed out horse and you'll be a much less stressed out owner.

That's just my opinion and as I said I don't know anything about it so I would give definitely talk about it with the vet and give the insurance company a ring. Good luck

Hmm. I don't have any H&R mags, I'll see if I can dig one out of somewhere. His character is lovely, he's generally a very laid back, friendly, well mannered lad. He's got a big personality, he prances past mares and he shouts a lot, whether we're under saddle or in hand, he does "tart" a lot and he's very active. However he's never nasty, never aggressive, he gets on well with the other geldings, and he's always controllable providing his handler is firm, even if a mare is in season and in close proximity. He's not a stress-head, he's just animated (if that makes any sense?).

Thus lies the dilemma of whether to go ahead or not. Vet has quoted approx. £1300 for keyhole surgery... does that sound about right?
 

FlaxenPony05

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2012
Messages
1,352
Visit site
Hmm. I don't have any H&R mags, I'll see if I can dig one out of somewhere. His character is lovely, he's generally a very laid back, friendly, well mannered lad. He's got a big personality, he prances past mares and he shouts a lot, whether we're under saddle or in hand, he does "tart" a lot and he's very active. However he's never nasty, never aggressive, he gets on well with the other geldings, and he's always controllable providing his handler is firm, even if a mare is in season and in close proximity. He's not a stress-head, he's just animated (if that makes any sense?).

Thus lies the dilemma of whether to go ahead or not. Vet has quoted approx. £1300 for keyhole surgery... does that sound about right?

Should have said it's in the one coming up! (I'm a subscriber, so just got it through the post). I guess it'll be in shops soon-ish so maybe look out for it then, it's a good article.

Yep, you're making sense. If he's a polite lad to handle (and it sounds like he is) and he isn't causing you any trouble....hmm, I don't know. It's a tricky decision, I don't envy you!

Hopefully someone with previous experience with this will see this and give you a hand.
 

TandD

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 August 2012
Messages
1,233
Visit site
How old is he? As I think after a certain age it will not make a massive difference! I've known a few who have been chopped later in life (from full to nothing) and if im honest it's made them even worse! Does he look much like a stallion I.e big neck?

It will be quite invasive, there is the threat of infection and there isn't a guarantee he will turn 'geldingish'. If you can cope with the behaviour and find ways of keeping him from mares I would personally do that!
 

paulineh

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 July 2008
Messages
2,111
Location
Hampshire / Berkshire
Visit site
I have a gelding (now 17) who at the age of 3 only dropped one testicle. He was operated on but the second one was so small and hidden that the vet did not find it. He was gelded while on the table. Some three months later while grooming between his back legs I found a small lump, this was later found to be the second testicle.

At no time did he ever behave like a stallion. The insurance paid for both the first operation and the removal of the second testicle.

He is a happy gelding very laid back and I think he would have been as a stallion too.
 

fuze

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 February 2013
Messages
199
Visit site
How old is he? As I think after a certain age it will not make a massive difference! I've known a few who have been chopped later in life (from full to nothing) and if im honest it's made them even worse! Does he look much like a stallion I.e big neck?

It will be quite invasive, there is the threat of infection and there isn't a guarantee he will turn 'geldingish'. If you can cope with the behaviour and find ways of keeping him from mares I would personally do that!

He's 6. He's pretty solidly built around the neck and shoulders (piccie below), and he does the full-on stallion parade paces. Our yard keeps mares and geldings separately, and they do have colts and a stallion on-site. Having said that, there is only a couple of fences between the herds. I guess it depends on how manageable he is once we come to spring / summer, as I've only had him a couple of months, I really don't know.

IMG_20131209_192625_zpsqctxhpmv.jpg


I have a gelding (now 17) who at the age of 3 only dropped one testicle. He was operated on but the second one was so small and hidden that the vet did not find it. He was gelded while on the table. Some three months later while grooming between his back legs I found a small lump, this was later found to be the second testicle.

At no time did he ever behave like a stallion. The insurance paid for both the first operation and the removal of the second testicle.

He is a happy gelding very laid back and I think he would have been as a stallion too.

Out of curiosity, Pauline, was it your own insurance that paid? My concern is that he does behave stallion-y, despite him being a sweetie.
 

zigzag

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 May 2007
Messages
3,720
Location
Land of nod
Visit site
Had a section A that was a rig, both testicles didn't come down. He had an op because he became a nasty swine lol, one testicle was up by his stomach, the other was just high up, the danger I was told is that the retained testicle can die or potentially turn cancerous.

Insurance wouldn't cover it, OP cost £670 back in 1996
 

Gloi

Too little time, too much to read.
Joined
8 May 2012
Messages
11,229
Location
Lancashire
Visit site
I don't know what the figure (7.8) you quoted in the first post represents compared to a stallion or gelding. As you say, you've only owned him in winter. I had two stallions when I used to show in the past and at this time of year you couldn't tell they were stallions, they could have passed as trekking ponies. However come March one of them transformed into a totally different creature who thought of nothing but sex all day every day, the other was no different from how he was in winter unless an in season mare was directly in his face. You'll just have to see what spring brings to decide what you need to do.
 

Orangehorse

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 November 2005
Messages
13,204
Visit site
I would wait and see what happens. After all, some stallions are very laid back, go out competiting, live a normal life, so maybe he will be OK and so long as you can keep him in your present yard. That is why people would opt for the operation - if they thought he might go to somewhere where the living conditions would be difficult, and rigs often turn nasty and difficult to handle.

Local lady told me that they bought a cob that they knew to be a rig - very cheap presumably - had it operated on and then sold it to a showing yard and it became a champion. I think he had a certain presence!
 

fuze

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 February 2013
Messages
199
Visit site
Had a section A that was a rig, both testicles didn't come down. He had an op because he became a nasty swine lol, one testicle was up by his stomach, the other was just high up, the danger I was told is that the retained testicle can die or potentially turn cancerous.

Insurance wouldn't cover it, OP cost £670 back in 1996

Ouch. Vet said earlier that insurance SHOULD cover it, but that it would be a good idea to call them to make sure. I know that there are health risks, so obviously it's preferable to whip it out. Having said that, I'm still paying off colic surgery from my boy that I lost earlier in the year, so if the insurance doesn't want to know then I'm going to struggle, to be honest.

I don't know what the figure (7.8) you quoted in the first post represents compared to a stallion or gelding. As you say, you've only owned him in winter. I had two stallions when I used to show in the past and at this time of year you couldn't tell they were stallions, they could have passed as trekking ponies. However come March one of them transformed into a totally different creature who thought of nothing but sex all day every day, the other was no different from how he was in winter unless an in season mare was directly in his face. You'll just have to see what spring brings to decide what you need to do.

Geldings are less than 0.2, stallions are above 10, true rigs are somewhere inbetween. As he came out at 7.8, he's approaching stallion territory - it's pretty high. That's a fair enough point, previous owner kept him on individual turnout (yard rules), so I can't gather quite how much (or little) of a problem he's likely to be. He's flirty at this time of year anyway, so perhaps he will be a problem come better weather.

I would wait and see what happens. After all, some stallions are very laid back, go out competiting, live a normal life, so maybe he will be OK and so long as you can keep him in your present yard. That is why people would opt for the operation - if they thought he might go to somewhere where the living conditions would be difficult, and rigs often turn nasty and difficult to handle.

Local lady told me that they bought a cob that they knew to be a rig - very cheap presumably - had it operated on and then sold it to a showing yard and it became a champion. I think he had a certain presence!

Mm, I can believe that they have presence! lol! I guess I need to have a few chats over the next few days... vet, yard owner, and insurance. Fingers crossed for a good outcome.
 

Little Blue

New User
Joined
3 October 2013
Messages
2
Visit site
I have a Sect C who was diagnosed as a true rig (cryptorchid) four years ago (as a 2 year old). Both testicles were retained. He had the full operation to have both removed at a cost of £1,300.00. However, he has retained some stallion like tendencies and has that "certain presence" - he still likes the girls - vet seems to think its learned behaviour - he was kept on his own before we had him and had never socialised with other horses! We treat him as a stallion, kind and firm and with respect, and as a result he is well mannered (well most of the time). Although he lives out in the same field as a our mare he is separated from her with an electric fence and this works well for us. He is a brave little pony with tremendous ability. My daughter broke him in and schooled him and has taken him to shows and pony club, but people always ask us if he is a stallion from the way he behaves. As a result he is unsuitable as a child's pony and I would never sell him as such - apart from hacking out he is now a companion to a mini Shetland. I would add though that he is full of character, I love him to bits and I wouldn't swap him for the world.
 

WelshD

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 October 2009
Messages
7,973
Visit site
Someone on one of the facebook groups had their rig operated on using the keyhole method, very neat two tiny wounds - very impressive

If your yard is secure from a livery future point of view and if the insurance will not pay i would wait and watch

If you are likely to want to move yards in the future you may find your options limited
 

Spring Feather

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 December 2010
Messages
8,042
Location
North America
Visit site
One of my geldings was a cryptorchid. I left him entire until he was 3 just in case the second one dropped but it didn't so I had him operated on and they found the other testicle hidden away (was a tricky surgery from what I was told). He was a quiet entire and once castrated is just as quiet. He's never been a troublesome horse. He's 7 years old now. It is very uncommon in my area for any vets to just remove a single testicle, it's usually both or none; regardless, I would never have just left my horse in limbo like that. He was for sure being castrated fully, it was just a matter of timing. The price you've been quoted sounds right. I don't insure any of my horses for vet fees, I just pay them as and when they come up, so I have no idea where you'll stand with your insurance company. My lad did come down with infection a few days after surgery so I opted to leave him at the vet clinic for a month until he was fully recovered. There were no further problems thereafter.
 

sodapop

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 May 2011
Messages
235
Visit site
I had a rig that was an absolute gent to handle but was far too happy to show his love to the mares. He was from a dealer and some dealers choose to geld their horses without a vet. My boy had a retained testicle that was quite difficult to find during his surgery but he made a full recovery and is still an amazing horse at 26+years of age. I did not need the surgery for his behaviour but was told there was a risk of the testicle turning malignant so I opted for the op. It was only £500 at the time though and the dealer gave me some money towards the vets fees!
 

fuze

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 February 2013
Messages
199
Visit site
Thanks for all the replies :)

We had the vet out today, pone was knocked out, and he was scanned and prodded to within an inch of his life. It flagged up absolutely nothing, so the logic is that whatever is floating around in there is way up in his abdomen, most likely a full testicle. As such, I've been told the best course of action is to talk to the insurance company, and get keyhole surgery booked in.

Pone decided to polish off the day nicely by losing the plot over one of the pretty mares on the way back to the field. One rearing pony and a bruised hip later, I'm cheering for chopping him up.

Wish us luck. lol.
 
Top