Truely awful, please make your feelings known

I really know nothing about reining and their training methods but jabbing the horse in the mouth like that is pretty disgusting. Especially at the end - is this the norm?
 
It always saddens me to see what some horses have to put up with. No wonder he didn't want the video showing, that's not horsemanship in any way, shape or form. A strong man jabbing reins on a curb bit like that should be truly ashamed of himself, as should those stewards who couldn't care less. :mad:
 
FattyBoomBoom said:
I really know nothing about reining and their training methods but jabbing the horse in the mouth like that is pretty disgusting. Especially at the end - is this the norm?
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I dont think this is the norm, at least no more than the use of rol kur in dressage. But i reckon its pretty common. I wanted to teach my boy a bit of reining, because its good for getting the horse soft, supple and responsive. So i bought a book. It gives plenty of advise on reining, but some of the methods used, i wouldnt dare use with any horse, such as tying his head to his tail to teach him to bend, or the use of ty downs. But i dont think that reining is the only one to use some kind of shortcut or radical ideas in training. And im sure that many trainers use kind training, and patience, instead of force. But like ive said, i dont think that this kind of force is just seen in reining. I think most disciplines have dark little secrets in training too.
 
Don't think all reiners are like that, like the more classical disciplines, there are goodies and baddies....

I know some excellent western trainers, and they don't use harsh jabbing in the mouth to get their point across....
 
my stallion can do everthing a reining horse can do without being trained, its an offshoot of being trained properly, and he can do it without any of the pulling and kicking, on a light rein, so how does it make this a sport?

the video is a totally the sort of thing to show to someone to explain how not to ride a horse and what really awful riding and training looks like, it should be played in all training establishments so the young know from day one how not to ride and as an example of what some poor horses have to endure.

it is totally ugly, utterly wrong and how anyone can think that is good is beyond me, those poor horses.
 
As a novice i dont understand what is happening here - why is the horse like this? Is it the training or the pain from the reins? Both??? I can see the horse is distressed but why? I pull my horses reins when i need him to stop and he certainly never has his head down like this?
Can someone explain?
 
This is not about reining as much as it is about the FEI's inability to protect the horses.... There are good and bad in all disciplines but the FEI should ensure the bad is not rewarded with success.
 
ginabella said:
As a novice i dont understand what is happening here - why is the horse like this? Is it the training or the pain from the reins? Both??? I can see the horse is distressed but why? I pull my horses reins when i need him to stop and he certainly never has his head down like this?
Can someone explain?
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Reining horses are taught to carry there heads quite low anyway. Normally this is taught with a snaffle, and only a well trained horse should be ridden with a curb bit. The curb will act to lower the head even more, as seen in the video because there is a lot of pressure being applied. So a little training, and a little curb action lowers the head. Basically the horse is like this through bad, rough riding.
 
I will be honest, I was expecting to see much, much worse from the comments already posted above. Whilst I don't particularly like the horse's head carriage, he is mostly very soft with the rein pressure. Yes, he does give a few jabs, but they are very quick and then complete softness is given. I would prefer to see that ANY day than watch people who are constantly riding their horse into a harsh contact, using their hands to balance, sawing, pulling back...you know, the things that you see daily on here, on the net and in daily life, and especially at every single show you go to.

Not defending the indefensible here, I don't like the outline, I would like to see the horse longer, but there is no continuous cruelty (as in creating pressure the horse cannot escape from)...the guy is a prat, his comments made me smirk...and I wonder what he does at home...
 
Weezy said:
I will be honest, I was expecting to see much, much worse from the comments already posted above. Whilst I don't particularly like the horse's head carriage, he is mostly very soft with the rein pressure. Yes, he does give a few jabs, but they are very quick and then complete softness is given. I would prefer to see that ANY day than watch people who are constantly riding their horse into a harsh contact, using their hands to balance, sawing, pulling back...you know, the things that you see daily on here, on the net and in daily life, and especially at every single show you go to.

Not defending the indefensible here, I don't like the outline, I would like to see the horse longer, but there is no continuous cruelty (as in creating pressure the horse cannot escape from)...the guy is a prat, his comments made me smirk...and I wonder what he does at home...
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Unfortunately those 'few' jabs, as u call it, are done in a very sever bit. if he is needing to do this, his horse is not ready to be ridden in this bit, a snaffle would be better. Although this would still hurt A LOT with these jabs.

I dont really know how you see that he has a light contact. Reining is meant to be on a loose rein, with the horse's head low and on the vertical. This horse is behind the bit, because of the harsh hands and short reins. You can ride a horse on a rein length as shown by this guy, in a curb bit, and still be putting pressure on the poll and lowering the head.

The reason the horse goes with his head in that position is because if he moves it, he gets a jab. Plus with the pressure on the curb, he cant lift his head. Or at least thats my view on it anyway.
 
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Jennyharvey said:
Its not reining thats cruel, its the way the horse's are ridden and trained.
To me, this is reining as it should be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-7v8Ck1crg
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That was quite beautiful... and very special. Thanks JH.

The OP's video was outrageous - however I am glad that it highlights the wistful, dullard judges that let this sort of stuff happen to horses when they are meant to regulate and actually stop it from happening - wonder how much they were paid to turn a blind eye... just like the top dressage judges that go around letting rolkur happen. That video showed rolkur of possibly the worst kind I have seen...
 
ginabella said:
As a novice i dont understand what is happening here - why is the horse like this? Is it the training or the pain from the reins? Both??? I can see the horse is distressed but why? I pull my horses reins when i need him to stop and he certainly never has his head down like this?
Can someone explain?
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This is not about asking the horse to stop, the horse will be trained to stop only on the word 'whoa' and through the rider's bodyweight pressure, the jabbing will be about reminding the horse to stay in frame in spite of no rein contact ie not poke out at the nose or lift the head/neck to create an 'ugly' outline in a stopping manoeuvre. The current reining ideal (please correct me, reiners, if I am wrong) is to perform a stop where the horse 'floats' to a stop just on the word command 'whoa' on a loose rein contact but retaining perfect frame, ie curved through the spine, down on the hocks, lifted through the shoulder but long in the neck outline, with the nose on or slightly in front of the vertical; so the horse is trained to 'remember' the boundaries of that frame. I suspect this is what he is trying for here. Is it heavy handed? Yes, it does seem so.
 
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