Truely awful, please make your feelings known

bakedbean said:
I wonder what's wrong with her knee? :confused:
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bakedbean nothing is wrong with her knee. Reiners need to perform fast dynamic spins on the spot, 4 - 41/4 times in each direction, the knee brace, which in this case is a one-leg bulky brace, is there to protect the horse should it under-step over and knock itself, no different to any sports boots which offer the same protection lower down. Reiners typically wear sports boots or bandages on front or front and hind legs, overreach boots, knee boots and skid boots (on the rear fetlocks to protect them during the sliding manoeuvres.

Tack that reiners or Western horses don't generally wear includes martingales and nosebands.
 
People you will see worse out there but this is the pinnacle of the sport, this man got 1st and 2nd and was awarded 100,000 euro, he should have been stopped in the warmup.

If our top horses cannot be protected, where there is a governing body then there is no hope.

The stewards were like corpses and the FEI made their statement after seeing the video.

Oh and there is in fact a statement that it is unacceptable to jab a horse in the mouth in their general rules.

As for a relaxed frame I would call it complete submission, the soul of the horse is dead.
 
Jimbol said:
The stewards were like corpses and the FEI made their statement after seeing the video.

Oh and there is in fact a statement that it is unacceptable to jab a horse in the mouth in their general rules.

As for a relaxed frame I would call it complete submission, the soul of the horse is dead.
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Jimbol I agree with you about the stewards. And about the clarity of the jabbing rule.

But submission - to a humane and engaged extent - is what you want in a reiner: the crux though must be that the horse remains both submissive and 'willingly guided', ie happy and engaged in its job...

"To rein a horse is not only to guide him but to control his
every movement. The best reined horse should be willingly
guided or controlled with little or no apparent resistance and
dictated to completely. Any movement on his own must be
considered a lack of control. All deviations from the exact
written pattern must be considered a lack of/or temporary loss
of control and therefore a fault that must be marked down
according to severity of deviation."
 
We do not want a horse to submit to the rider as a prisoner would to his capture, we want submission to the training like a will ing student.

Is this horse being trained or punished, maybe you think these are the same, I however do not.
 
Jimbol said:
We do not want a horse to submit to the rider as a prisoner would to his capture, we want submission to the training like a will ing student.

Is this horse being trained or punished, maybe you think these are the same, I however do not.
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I'm sorry you felt the need to be rude. I have not commented about the horse in question, it is pretty evident, and I do not see where our views actually differ. I have commented on the ideals of the discipline.
 
It was not directed at you personally hen, it was an
Open question to challenge the view on this riders behaviour, I appologise immediately
 
Hen I can see how I would have given that impression.

The interpretation of submission is a big welfare issue in equitation.
 
There is no defending that behaviour. that is pure physical domination using a harsh bit. Anyone who can read horses need only look at that horses body language to interpret the distress it is feeling at points and the distinct fear of further jabs. Those bits are not just snaffles, they are harsh and I would be surprised if that horse hadnn't damge from that use. That is pure punishment for every moment.
There isn't really a comparison with the bareback rider, a lot of the other riders could clearly be seen riding their horses in a very bent and restricted fashion, not dissimilar to rolkur this.
 
I only watched 1 min of that because I didn't recognise or like what I saw. That's not horsemanship, its just abuse of a trusting willing animal. What a way to reward our loyal servant.
 
In the background of one of the sliding stops, someone is performing the same exercise but a lot gentler and getting a similar response, so it would seem that he's either being heavy handed OR the horse isn't ready for that.

I think the threats are just like the people who threaten them - empty ..
 
When I was a kid I used to make model bits for my model horses. I made western bits as well as English. Western bits are curb bits. When I placed the tiny bits at the end of my thumb (with the curb chain the opposite side) and pulled the reins the force that little bit exerted was unbelievable. If you want to try it, fashion a bit out of some sturdy wire and use a thin piece of chain or bit of string to mimic the curb strap and reins. I promise, it will shock you. And that test does not take into account the additional poll pressure.

I could not watch much of the video clip, I'm afraid. It disgusts me.
 
I have watched and don't think this is anywhere near as bad as the dressage riders, at least its releasing quickly unlike constant crushing pressure to make a tongue blue..

Also bear in mind that's a curb with leather curb chain, not a double bridle with metal chain and a crank noseband done up tight.

Yes I think officials should be reprimanded as rollkur type flexion is not acceptable in any FEI warm up regardless of discipline

However I think those who think this riding is totally out of line to the point of cruelty ought to be policing local shows. You see more sawing and stabbing with spurs causing actual harm and damage than this video.
 
The point is that these are champions and will contribute to making the riding at local shows worse. This guy is effectively punching his horse in the mouth to maintain a frame as opposed to pressure, the bit becomes a tool of punishment rather than an aid.

If you read my links to jab a horse in the mouth is abuse under FEI regulations, this should result in a minimum 3 month ban and up to a 15,000 euro fine.
 
BonneMaman said:
I have seen worse at local shows.
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Yes me too. But this sort of treatment of the horse shouldnt be allowed at any level. Certainly at the top levels, people who are supposedly GOOD trainers.

More needs to be done for the welfare of horses used for competing at all levels, and people need educating on better to ways of training, instead of being allowed to use force and punishment.
 
Please copy and send this letter to let the BEF know how you feelm, perhaps they will echo your feelings within the FEI:

British Equestrian Federation
Stoneleigh Park
Kenilworth
Warwickshire
CV8 2RH

Dear Mr Finding

I am writing to complain about a video I have seen posted on EPONA TV of Craig Schmersal competing at the FEI world reining final, Malmo, Sweden in May 2011.

I believe the clip clearly shows Mr Schmersal overusing the bit and clearly Jabbing the horse in the mouth which is against the FEI regulations, as quoted below.

FEI GENERAL REGULATIONS
23rd edition, 1 January 2009, updated 1 January 2010

Article 142 - Abuse of Horses
1. No person may abuse a Horse during an Event or at any other time. “Abuse” means an action or omission which causes or is likely to cause pain or unnecessary discomfort to a Horse, including without limitation any of the following:
- To whip or beat a Horse excessively;
- To subject a Horse to any kind of electric shock device;
- To use spurs excessively or persistently;
- To jab the Horse in the mouth with the bit or any other device;
- To compete using an exhausted, lame or injured Horse;
- To "rap" a Horse.
- To abnormally sensitise or desensitise any part of a Horse;
- To leave a Horse without adequate food, drink or exercise;
- To use any device or equipment which cause excessive pain to the Horse upon knocking down an obstacle.
2. Any person witnessing an Abuse must report it in the form of a protest (Article 163) without delay. If an Abuse is witnessed during or in direct connection with an Event, it should be reported as a protest (Article 163) to an Official. If the Abuse is witnessed at any other time it should be reported as a protest (Article 163) to the Secretary General for referral to the FEI Tribunal.

I do hope that BEF as the UK’s representative at the FEI will take this matter seriously and take to the FEI.

Many thanks for your support and cooperation in this matter

Yours sincerely
 
that is not horsemanship, that is not submission, its torturing a poor animal in a most appalling fashion, it is not sport

the true definition of submission is when the horse is available to the rider in a way that does not make it subservient, but enhances to the ultimate degree the understanding between the horse and rider, they work as one, it liberates the horse and enables it to show its brilliance, so it looks like its doing it of its own volition

submission liberates the horse it is the opposite of what that bloke is doing
 
I feel that this video is showing the very worst in horsemanship and think that its a disgrace.

I ride western and so do all my family.
I love the riding western and so do my horses.
They are never treated this way and are taught in snaffle bits and then curbs encourage the correct head carriage!!! not like this video. i would be throw out of my classes if my horses head was this over bent.

Nobody ever complains about the whips uses in engish riding!!! i think that is digusting but this is seen as totally normal and common punishment at any level!!!!

there are good and bad sides to every horse sport and good and bad riders in all sports also.

i hope that this rider does not get away with this kind of abuse.

I also hope that this does not cloud everyones views of western riding!!
everyone i know in ths sport is so friendly and the horses are all well treated and really enjoy what they do and love the atmosphere.
 
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