Truth or myth: certain types of bedding bad for horses' hooves?

I think all bedding to a degree is bad for feet. Standing in a stable means they will stand in their own dung for a good proportion of time and not moving around will mean it doesn't naturally fall out. Ultra drying isn't great either but I should think more like to cause abscesses if they are getting wet then dry a lot (have had that even when they are outside in a very wet then suddenly frosty winter).
 
I doubt anyone has ever done a proper study to test that theory. I've come across a study though that measured moisture content in clippings from the sole and wall of horses after soaking, and it showed that moisture in the walls isn't really affected, but moisture in the sole is. Also, moisture content in walls from horses living dry vs. wet environments was the same.
I would think that dry bedding that keeps a horse from standing in urine is a good thing. And IME, drying the hoof out now and then is also good to keep thrush at bay. No real evidence though.

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/29708/environmental-effect-on-hoof-wall-hydration-studied
 
Having worked with stabled horses for many decades I've never come across any problems.

Shavings/sawdust/woodchips can dry out the feet if the bed is nice and dry in itself - this is where your hoof oil comes in, a coat inside and out twice a day will keep the moisture levels in the hoof right.

The condition of the bed also has an effect on the feet - if the horse is very dirty or the mucking out is poor you run more of a risk of problems such as thrush or canker.
 
Tnavas said:
Having worked with stabled horses for many decades I've never come across any problems.

Shavings/sawdust/woodchips can dry out the feet if the bed is nice and dry in itself - this is where your hoof oil comes in, a coat inside and out twice a day will keep the moisture levels in the hoof right.

The condition of the bed also has an effect on the feet - if the horse is very dirty or the mucking out is poor you run more of a risk of problems such as thrush or canker.
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I use flax on Eva rubber mats. The horses are quite clean in themselves so my beds are generally dry and smell fresh but they're not bone dry as the flax absorbs some moisture from the pee and atmosphere then fluffs up. When I put in a new bale the bedding has to be lightly watered to make it 'take'. I think I'll try some hoof oil as suggested - as on both horses their hooves are showing signs of being possibly brittle i.e. cracks. They are both barefoot, out overnight in restricted grazing, in during the day. I use keratex on the bottom of the hooves once a week (I mean around the bottom half of the hoof walls not underneath on the soles) where they naturally get more wear & tear.
 
TotalMadgeness said:
Wow! Do you know why / how? I'm assuming the american walnut is because they eat it (might have got that wrong but my horse loves chewing wood).
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Walnut (and oak) shavings are very high in tannin; combine that with the urea in urine and you are effectively tanning (turning into leather) your horse's skin when he lies down.
 
I am a bit of bedding nut job , here's what I think .
All deep litter systems bad for feet ,the least bad is straw .
Mucked out well straw is the best bedding for horses feet but not good for the horses wind .
So the best choice IMO is large flake shavings that are made as horse bedding not as a byproduct of timber production such as the premium bed max which you then muck out fully like you would straw .
The worse bedding IME is sawdust deep littered every yard I have ever worked on on this system had terrible issues with abscesses .
 
Redwood is meant to be ill advised for horse bedding due to the coarseness and splinter danger as its a hardwood. Also black walnut which can be found in shavings derived from furniture manufacturers has 'allegedly' been found to cause severe laminitis in horses bedded on them. Cyprus, maple and red cherry tree wood shavings are toxic if consumed (not sure how this is even possible!) and can cause skin reactions.

I understand that the red wood is drawn up through the horses hooves which can cause toxicity but how true this is I am unsure.

Pine has never dried out my horses hooves, he has been bedded on free pine shavings for about 10 of his 12 years with me and has never encountered any problems. In fact the only problems I have ever had was when I moved from free shavings my Dad bagged up for me, to the supposedly 'dust free' shavings that are £7 or £8 per bale, when my horse has done nothing but cough unless they are well mixed in with his existing bedding.

Unfortunately I have a deep 'hole' in my stable floor which is getting deeper by the month and which I am trying to get filled in with more earth and packed down hard with a whacker plate. Its an earth floor but my horse stands in this hole with his toes pointing down to the floor which he insists on doing no matter how I pack the bed, and I find incredibly exasperating given his leg issues, the exact stance you don't want for a horse who has had suspensory branch issues! His urine tends to pool in this area so he will stand in urine for a few hours a day but fortunately has not (yet) caused him any issues. Not ideal - I do miss my rubber matting so much :(
 
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applecart14 said:
my horse stands in this hole with his toes pointing down to the floor which he insists on doing no matter how I pack the bed, and I find incredibly exasperating given his leg issues, the exact stance you don't want for a horse who has had suspensory branch issues! (
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Thats quite common for horses with suspensory issues - they often stand with their heels on their banks if they don't have a hole. It takes pressure off the suspensory ligaments. see here (in the clinicla presentation section) - http://www.equipodiatry.com/dsld.htm
 
don't know if its bedding itself but ammonia is terrible for feet-and for horses wind too. I hated the pelleted beds for my horses feet. My horse came with quite bad thrush and I could not get rid of it on pelleted beds-he's also a mucky git. In the stables now I use a chopped straw (I like auboise but couldn't get it all the time) so either Cavianthus or Nedzbedz Pro. In the byre I had to go back to long straw and it really is the best bed for their feet IMO and they love it. The byre is well ventilated though and my stables are big but internal so wouldn't go back to long straw in those.
 
I use bowbed (similar to nedzbedz Pro as chopped rape straw) and it's great. I couldn't sort out hem core which I love as minimum bulk order was 10 pallets! 666 bales of bedding!

My stables are big enough to have a bed at the back and the same space again in front with no bedding just matting so always staying nice and flat and not in crap ;) bedding stays nice and dry on top and super absorbent as well so no ammonia problems, even with the tiny bed trasher!

I've never found bedding dry out feet though...
 
Auslander said:
Thats quite common for horses with suspensory issues - they often stand with their heels on their banks if they don't have a hole. It takes pressure off the suspensory ligaments. see here (in the clinicla presentation section) - http://www.equipodiatry.com/dsld.htm
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Thanks Auslander I've heard this before, but I think its more of a case of him pivoting in this spot with his hind legs as he moves between water and haynet which are either side of his door, and he gradually wears a hole in the bed. Because the floor is earth its worn down over the years him and others have been in there, so unless the hole is packed with a rubber mat (as it is by his stable door) it will continue to wear down. He stands in the one place in the stable with his head towards the front of the stable and his hinds tend to stay where they are whilst his front legs move from net to water, to net. His stable is wide but not very deep from front to back. I think its just a co-incidence that his toes end up lower than his heels. He's never had suspensory issues as such, only slight sprains of his suspensory branches, which are different. He was declared sound by a vet from my practice about three weeks ago.

I did ask about PSD ages ago because about once in every fifty times I will see him lean with his bum on his stable wall, or lean on the horsebox parked next to him but this isn't consistent. But the vet said he did not have PSD in anyway and has no other symptoms such as swelling, heat, stiffness or altered change of gait.
 
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I think considering most people only really stable through winter when its wet and boggy out side, a dry and absorbent bed is needed to help maintain moisture levels in the feet. If my girls feet where to get too dry then I would apply a hoof moist a few times per week to help. However I wouldn't use hoof oil like a few have suggested as the oil blocks the hoof from being able to absorb moisture and can cause more damage. I always make sure my horses feet are being picked out, when she's out its once per day and when she's in its twice and then another 2 times on exercise days when she's groomed (yes this does mean my horse will sometimes get her feet picked out x4 per day :D). This way I know my horses feet inside out and note any changes to act upon and nothing gets packed in. I also disinfect the soles of the feet once per week to prevent thrush! :):)

My bed is 4-5 bags of aqua max bedding as a base layer to absorb urine, lock away ammonia and have a more stable floor. I then put a deep litter bed of straw ontop which is kept really thick. Super easy comfy bed to muck out, doesnt smell, is very warm and no foot problems! ;)
 
MaeBee93 said:
I think considering most people only really stable through winter when its wet and boggy out side, a dry and absorbent bed is needed to help maintain moisture levels in the feet. If my girls feet where to get too dry then I would apply a hoof moist a few times per week to help. However I wouldn't use hoof oil like a few have suggested as the oil blocks the hoof from being able to absorb moisture and can cause more damage. I always make sure my horses feet are being picked out, when she's out its once per day and when she's in its twice and then another 2 times on exercise days when she's groomed (yes this does mean my horse will sometimes get her feet picked out x4 per day :D). This way I know my horses feet inside out and note any changes to act upon and nothing gets packed in. I also disinfect the soles of the feet once per week to prevent thrush! :):)

My bed is 4-5 bags of aqua max bedding as a base layer to absorb urine, lock away ammonia and have a more stable floor. I then put a deep litter bed of straw ontop which is kept really thick. Super easy comfy bed to muck out, doesnt smell, is very warm and no foot problems! ;)
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I have been oiling hooves twice daily for over 50 years to all horses in my care and they have had the best feet - bedded on deep litter shavings or straw -

To be healthy the hooves have to have a certain percentage of water in them - in summer oiling the hooves keeps that moisture in, in winter it keeps the excess water out. I've never yet had a horse with Thrush and I've had a few hundred horses in my care.
 
For a very wet dirty horse Wood pellets were the best. They absorbed the wet to the point that the drying out offset wetness.
Straw second best, a big thick bed, wet drains through and the top layer stays dryish. Full muck out every day.
Shavings were the worst, absorbed the wet and held it so he was standing in it, got through 4 bales of hunter a week, bed never looked clean and constant thrush.

All the above were on the same yard, rubber matted stable so no variables like stable size, drainage, how well the ym mucked out, how much turnout (not enough) etc
He turned out to be allergic to all wood bedding so now on straw.
 
Whilst stabling away at a clinic I came across something called Red Bed bedding, which is apparently specifically designed to be good for feet. The only downside I found was it turned my horse pink (might be a plus for some young girls). I don't think its available anymore, but I think it was a type of dried clay. The argument was that it provided better support and stimulation for the foot, it absorbed the urine without rotting, and it kept the feet dry. It seemed pretty good to me for the one week I used it, certainly very low smell.

Personally I think the best bedding for hooves is basically clean bedding, so whatever type of bedding that is most easily achieved on for the horse and the stable. Any other considerations come a low second. Of course the best thing for hooves is not stabling at all (unless the alternative is standing in a small mud bath).
 
TotalMadgeness said:
I think I'll try some hoof oil as suggested - as on both horses their hooves are showing signs of being possibly brittle i.e. cracks. [...] I use keratex on the bottom of the hooves once a week (I mean around the bottom half of the hoof walls not underneath on the soles) where they naturally get more wear & tear.
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Have you tried stopping the keratex for a bit? I know some people swear by it, but my experience is it is damaging to the hoof longer-term and causes brittleness.

I'm another that doesn't believe in oiling (except for decorative purposes). Unless you live in the desert its highly unlikely the hooves are actually too dry, if its not the keratex damaging the hooves its probably a diet issue. Sudden changes from very wet to very dry can be an issue, if you need to add moisture for this reason then just stand them in some water.
 
MaeBee93 said:
I know this, thats why I mentioned it. I see where your coming from but I personally wouldn't put oil on my horses feet. :)
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The problem is that shoeing tends to remove the periople layer of the hoof .This is a varnish like substance which keeps the moisture in the hoof . Oiling feet merely replaces the damaged periople and keeps the hooves moist. The oil must be vegetable oil.I use a mix of stockholm tar and linseed oil.
 
TotalMadgeness said:
Can 'highly absorbent' bedding such as wood pellets, flax or hemcore dry out horses' hooves to such an extent they become brittle / crack more easily?
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I can't comment on these types of bedding as we use straw have done for years and years and we have never had any problems with this . Reading this with interest tho
 
laura_nash said:
Have you tried stopping the keratex for a bit? I know some people swear by it, but my experience is it is damaging to the hoof longer-term and causes brittleness.

I'm another that doesn't believe in oiling (except for decorative purposes). Unless you live in the desert its highly unlikely the hooves are actually too dry, if its not the keratex damaging the hooves its probably a diet issue. Sudden changes from very wet to very dry can be an issue, if you need to add moisture for this reason then just stand them in some water.
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Laura - if you stable on deep litter shavings then you will find hooves can dry out - the urine deep in the bed is rotting the shavings and the heat generated can be drying.

In the past before all these processed feeds came into being we had little problem with feet - and we always oiled twice a day.

I think a lot of dietary problems people are dealing with these days is the result of unbalanced supplements and the preservatives and stabilisers put into processed feeds.
 
Mike007 said:
The problem is that shoeing tends to remove the periople layer of the hoof .This is a varnish like substance which keeps the moisture in the hoof . Oiling feet merely replaces the damaged periople and keeps the hooves moist. The oil must be vegetable oil.I use a mix of stockholm tar and linseed oil.
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Agree Mike - a good farrier doesn't rasp away the majority of the periople like we see so often these days - My farrier knows better! He has been told! LOL! :D

I used good old Carr Day & Martin Hoof Oil in the red can for as long as I can remember.
 
Tnavas said:
Laura - if you stable on deep litter shavings then you will find hooves can dry out - the urine deep in the bed is rotting the shavings and the heat generated can be drying.

In the past before all these processed feeds came into being we had little problem with feet - and we always oiled twice a day.

I think a lot of dietary problems people are dealing with these days is the result of unbalanced supplements and the preservatives and stabilisers put into processed feeds.
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I would have to agree with you about all these processed feeds you see nowadays it's a mine feild it's not how it was . We are very traditional so we haven't changed much in the 40 years of owning horses and I've never seen so many shiny feed bags in a tack shop.
 
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