Trying to get deposit back from unscrupulous horse dealer

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will0w

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31 March 2013
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Okay so I've been looking to import a horse to the USA from Europe and contacted what appeared to be a nice dealer, but as the deal proceeded there seemed to be some things that didn't feel right to me--mainly that he didn't want me contacting the current owner of the horse. That "that's just not how it works." Meanwhile all he had sent me was a grainy cell phone picture of the horse, but he had told me he'd be getting more material on him etc etc. Then I was hit with some money issues here at home so had to put the purchase off; I figured it was just as well since I'd located another horse in the meantime who seemed to be at least as good a fit, was out of a stallion that I really like anyhow, and was about 1/4 the price :P Plus I'll be purchasing him directly from his current owner rather than a dealer.

Back to the dealer: I told him money troubles had come up, and I was not going to be buying his horse and that I wanted my deposit back. He said no deposit back, it's non refundable. I was like, okay, I guess I can let it sit there in case I ever want to get a more affordable horse from him in the future.

Then I started digging up all kinds of dirt on this guy--apparently, he's a charlatan who has changed business names about 1,000 times and actually was brought to bear by the law at at least one point. Also ran a puppy mill {Puppy Paradise} which also ripped people off with sick dogs. Long story short, I NEVER want to buy anything from this person, and as he failed to disclose any of this history to me I feel like he was dishonest with me from the beginning. He tells me that all deposits are non refundable under common law. I'm not a law expert but I know that isn't true at all on my side of the pond.

I guess I'm grateful that I pulled out of this before I lost more than $750, but $750 is a lot to lose and I am ready to fight for it. It was made by Paypal so I intend to do a chargeback, but before I do I was wondering if anyone here had any advice for me so I can win this. I am sure at least some of you know who I am talking about.
 
I don't think he should be obligated to give you your money back purely because you changed your mind.
Had the horse failed the vetting, that would've been a different matter.
 
Okay! I'll leave it at that then and hope he remains in business long enough for me to make good on it. He hasn't had his new site for more than a few months, when it goes down and he renames it again I hope he would still honour it.

Thank you for your reponse. I guess this can be locked now, unless there is a way I can stop getting emails from it :)
 
You changed your mind, you would not get your deposit back on this side of the Atlantic, either. I doubt very much if the deposit could be transferred to another horse in the future either, in case you change your mind again.

Incidentally, a foal cannot be 'out of' a stallion - they come out of mares. It is usual to say that a foal is by a particular stallion.
 
You pulled out of the deal so you are not entitled to your money back.

Two things, first any money left with him will not count on the deposit of another horse.
Secondly - you are thinking of going back to this man after all your late research!
 
If you're hoping to use that $750 deposit you paid, potentially, as a deposit for the future horse...I don't think it works like that.

You lost your deposit because you changed your mind on that particular horse. I'm pretty sure you'd still have to pay full deposit on a future horse. The deposit you paid covers the money you lost him and time you wasted (he could have had other people viewing his horse in that time and have sold it already).
 
I am NOT thinking of going back to him after my research. I was, before I did the research, as I stated in my post. The research was hard to do because he had shut down his old website and changed his business name completely.

I am now trying to figure out how to delete my account here, as I don't want to be in anyone's way.
 
If the deposit was for one specific horse, then I doubt very much that you could use the same deposit for another horse, or as part payment for another horse. If the sale had failed for reasons of the horse not being suitable, because of undisclosed health issues etc, then it would have been a different matter. Just because you changed your mind, then the deposit can indeed be non refundable, The depost ensures that the horse is not sold to anyone else, as you have contracted to buy it, so it will not be held for future use if you decide to try and buy another from him.
 
You're not in anyones way! The forum is here for people to ask questions, share experiences etc etc. Why not stick around and use it?

I know the answer you got wasn't what you wanted, but don't let that put you off.
 
I'm not mad at anyone here, but I REALLY REALLY just want to delete myself and I can't find where and now I'm panicking :( I'm so sorry!

I will say, you guys are really nice. Thanks for your time and sorry I wasted it. :(
 
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will0w said:
I'm not mad at anyone here, but I REALLY REALLY just want to delete myself and I can't find where and now I'm panicking :( I'm so sorry!
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Please relax! I'm not sure you can delete an account but you can log out and simply not log back in again. Do not panic, life is way too short to panic over something like this.
 
Will0w just don't use the account, no need to delete just don't use it.

Shame you won't stick round though as this forum can be great for advice and help.
Your not in the way, don't panic.
 
Well I'm ashamed to be seen since I've been so stupid. That's why I got to go.

Can I PM a mod to ask them to delete me? Is that how it works here? I don't know how that works here since I just got here. I'm sorry.
 
will0w said:
Well I'm ashamed to be seen since I've been so stupid. That's why I got to go.

Can I PM a mod to ask them to delete me? Is that how it works here? I don't know how that works here since I just got here. I'm sorry.
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Willow, we have all been stupid at times, unfortunately it has been costly for you, put it behind you.
 
It won't be sorted, the guy isn't even allowed to legally be running this business. He was shut down by the law in 2006. Only a matter of time before he's just shut down and that's the end of it. At least I have Ebay, where I'm selling my things to make up the money.
 
If he was illegally dealing don't you have Trading Standards or something similar in the US that you could get advice from?
I'm not sure where you would stand though as you pulled out of the deal and unfortunately means you lose your deposit.
In the UK people normally leave a 10% deposit so maybe next time unless its a valuable horse don't leave as much money.
 
It was being sold for a valuable price but probably wasn't as valuable as they were telling me. Trading standards is what he got in trouble with in 2006. The guy keeps changing his business name every few months so that the bad news doesn't catch up with him online and elsewhere. But it's him, he's run under at least 6 or 7 names in the past few years.

$750 is kind of a lot, but not really something I'm going to get in a twist about if there's really no strong legal case. I like to just leave it and move on.
 
I just feel like I made a lot of trouble. You guys are so nice and I wasted your time with stupid question. I feel bad about that.
 
Contact Trading Standards in the seller's home county and mention "distance selling regulations".
The rules are slightly different if you purchase unseen but I doubt you'll see any money back.

I cannot understand why you would be looking to import from a bin end dealer when the cost of travel far exceeds the cost of the horse?
 
will0w said:
I just feel like I made a lot of trouble. You guys are so nice and I wasted your time with stupid question. I feel bad about that.
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you really haven't wasted anyone time! Most of us have been there! I fell for a horse last year that I brought from a dealer in kent... I could have sent her back but kept her even though she weaved and had a severe mounting problem! she is however doing well and is now sold to a event rider.
 
If it makes you feel better I will go and write RUDE WORDS in BIG letters on the dealer's gate - fee is $100 (non refundable of course ) :D:cool:
 
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