Trying to lunge reaches new low.... help

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Mongoose11

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So, fatty basically refuses to lunge. I start to try every once in a while and then I always give up again.

She does know how she is just being a complete Cow. I read some advice today that said to turn her on a really tight circle and she will realise that it is much easier for her to move away on a bigger circle (her refusal to lunge usually has her turn in, refuse to leave me, get more agitated and walk into me, over me etc).

So, it worked! After about 6 tight turns she went out, lunged beautifully for about 3 minutes! I thought I had it solved :)

Then she decided - no way had enough. I spent half an hour trying to get her to go away or let me go away. I gave up. Walking over me, refused to let me past her shoulder...

Very experienced livery then arrives and I explain the problem, she laughed and said she had seen this all before and would I let her have a go.....

More refusal, mini rears, eventually smacked with a lunge whip - nothing, would not move, cracked it - she came closer. Two lines - she concertina'ed up.

You can not make her lunge. Should I just accept it?

She is an angel under saddle.
 
Can you get someone to do the whip bit and you do the lungeline bit - get other person to walk behind (out of kicking range, obs) and give a tap (or more than if necessary....)while you work the line. She will now have learned how to get out of doing anything, so you may need to be quite, er, firm.
 
Cortez said:
Can you get someone to do the whip bit and you do the lungeline bit - get other person to walk behind (out of kicking range, obs) and give a tap (or more than if necessary....)while you work the line. She will now have learned how to get out of doing anything, so you may need to be quite, er, firm.
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We could try a tag team as we haven't yet. Without being too brutal she did get a fair pasting tonight. Other lady works with horses so has seen a lot more than me and she said she had never known one to still refuse to move despite a proper crack on the arse (four in a row actually).

:mad:
 
Here we go again. People out of their depths cracking the whip. I think I am just going to stop reading this forum before my blood pressure gets any higher.
 
planete said:
Here we go again. People out of their depths cracking the whip. I think I am just going to stop reading this forum before my blood pressure gets any higher.
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Wowsers with that attitude you must know EVERYTHING huh? If you bothered to read it properly I said the whip was cracked by the very experienced lady. I would say the fact that she is an AI, rides 5-6 a day and has worked with horses for years enough experience for her to think she can get my obnoxious cob to lunge.

Get back in your box you plank.

This forum makes my blood pressure raise when idiots like you put people off asking questions. So, what would you suggest smart ar*e?
 
planete said:
Here we go again. People out of their depths cracking the whip. I think I am just going to stop reading this forum before my blood pressure gets any higher.
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What a nasty post :eek:

The OP is asking for help. Not to be spoken to like that. Go away.
 
My horse occasionally decides he doesn't want to be lunged and will stop and turn and face me. The only way I can get him moving is get behind him. He will then move away from me and I can gradually move back into the centre of the circle, still staying behind him rather than opposite his shoulder. The second he starts to stop and turn I get behind him again. If he is being particularly stubborn, I might have to stay behind and never get into the centre. He usually only does it in walk and once he's trotting it is much easier to keep him moving. You have to be very assertive and determined and I have never had to actually hit him with the whip as he moves away when I'm behind. I know my horse and I know he is extremely unlikely to kick me but I dont know yours, so be careful if there is a risk.
 
ZondaR said:
My horse occasionally decides he doesn't want to be lunged and will stop and turn and face me. The only way I can get him moving is get behind him. He will then move away from me and I can gradually move back into the centre of the circle, still staying behind him rather than opposite his shoulder. The second he starts to stop and turn I get behind him again. If he is being particularly stubborn, I might have to stay behind and never get into the centre. He usually only does it in walk and once he's trotting it is much easier to keep him moving. You have to be very assertive and determined and I have never had to actually hit him with the whip as he moves away when I'm behind. I know my horse and I know he is extremely unlikely to kick me but I dont know yours, so be careful if there is a risk.
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Thanks Zonda - she literally will not let move away when she gets like this. I started praising her when she would stand and let me step away from her head but then if I try and level with her shoulder or further back she turns, walks in and we have to start again....
 
Laafet said:
Lungeing with two reins is usually the easiest way to get over this with a friend to encourage her forward with a whip unless you are confident handling two reins and a whip.
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Tried with two and she just scrunched herself up - introduced the whip and she barely batted an eyelid let alone went forward. :(
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
The horse is an angel under saddle but hates lunging, so why do you want to lunge? What do you hope to achieve by lunging?
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I knew that was coming.... to help with her weight I need to really work her everyday and sometimes don't want to ride, I just wanted to be able to lunge so the one evening where I have late meetings I can at least lunge if I don't feel like riding. I also think to myself that she 'should' lunge. I vary between this and saying it's ok that she won't. I can just ride her....
 
Billie1007 said:
Tried with two and she just scrunched herself up - introduced the whip and she barely batted an eyelid let alone went forward. :(
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Hmm, I've only had that happen when teaching my colleague to lunge with two lines, it does take a lot of knack to be in the right place at the right time. The back line should be used loose and to encourage the horse forward and not to turn in.
What sort of arena are you in? It is a lot easier in small arena or lunge pit. Then you can just concentrate on going forwards and not the direction. That said as others have said, is it essential to lunge. I don't do it much at all with my own horse. I ride him whenever I can.
I once reschooled a very awkward Welsh D x for a client and that refused to lunge at all or canter ridden/or on lunge. I sorted out the lungeing problem with the help of two friends, she had no option but to go round and she would charge at me when I restarted her.
 
Hey up lass

You have probably tried this already, so do excuse me popping my head over the parapet, but have you tried long reining and driving her from the ground rather than lunging? She might quite like that ... I know my little field gremlin would rather be 'driven' than lunged. :D Madness, I know, to reference lil Gilda but a horse is a horse in my lowly eyes! Gilda is just moving up to dragging a tyre behind her now - you have never seen anything more hilarious in your whole life! hehehehe!

By the way - loved your plank comment! chuckle.

xxxxx

P.s. don't feel pressured to lunge her. If you are both happier not lunging, then don't. A walk/trot round the menage in hand is still excercise at the end of the day. Or perhaps she might like the option of being lunged/driven/inhand over poles and jumps instead ...
 
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EmsHooper said:
Hey up lass

You have probably tried this already, so do excuse me popping my head over the parapet, but have you tried long reining and driving her from the ground rather than lunging? She might quite like that ... I know my little field gremlin would rather be 'driven' than lunged. :D Madness, I know, to reference lil Gilda but a horse is a horse in my lowly eyes! Gilda is just moving up to dragging a tyre behind her now - you have never seen anything more hilarious in your whole life! hehehehe!

By the way - loved your plank comment! chuckle.

xxxxx
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Hey Ems :)

They all work the same it seems - fatty cobs or little gremlins! Gilda sounds like she is going beautifully.

Long reining is on the list to try on Sunday so I will report back although I imagine I will get the same response - she may just suprise us though :) I was trying to avoid doing any work hence making her run around me ;)

xxx

Yes I think pehaps I should just give up on the lungeing, try long reining and if not bck to riding every day :)
 
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I'd use two lines and why don't you sit on her and get someone to long line her on a circle. They give the aid, if she doesn't do it, you reinforce it and so on. Once has the idea you could try with no rider.

Probably when she is thinner and fitter she will be easier too.
 
If its just for exercise will she loose school ?
Just a thought, but is there possibly something physical that makes her resent working in the smaller area ? If youre happy thats not the case then
I'm Another who would put tack on and try to work with 2 lines from the bit, through the stirrups which are tied down with a leather to get her to go forward, but im really comfy working with 2 lines, so id only suggest you try this if youre able to work with them, keeping your distance so you dont get kicked, lift the lines away from her then sharply slap them off her butt, ive never failed to get them forward with this and a crack of the lunge whip behind them to then keep them going in the circle. Its mega frustrating when you know theyre not sore they can but just wont
 
Yup very frustrating. I think that is why I keep trying because I know she can. No chance of loose schooling as it is a dressage arena unfortunately. I did have some lessons on the lunge as much for me and my seat as for the opportunity to give her the right idea. I know I seem to have an answer for everything but I have honestly tried many many options.....

@FW - I call her fatty cob even when she is thin and fit :) but to be fair she had eight weeks off (other than the occasional hack) after breaking my foot so she is unfit at the moment.
 
You need to get behind her and drive her forwards, may take a bit of jogging on your part to get the message across, chase her off and keep her going. Then you can move back to the centre discreetly, as soon as she thinks about stopping get straight back to driving her. Used to lunge a pony that would rear and charge if you didn't drive him on, got so fit lunging him from all the jogging about Haha, not exactly text book but it worked.
 
I agree with the long reining idea, drive her forwards from behind, even if someone has to lead her for a while then very gradually when she has got the idea you can start to move sideways until you are in the middle. Loose schooling even in a large arena is possible and will get you fit too! I find that with my boy he actually prefers to loose school in 20 metre circles around me! Try the Monty Roberts approach and do join up, walk her inhand over poles etc to give her something other than you to focus on.
 
Thank you Bobbly - I can't loose school as I have no gate it is an arena with boards - no fence. She would just bugger off to her paddock to eat ;) thanks for the ideas though.
 
Billie1007 said:
Thank you Bobbly - I can't loose school as I have no gate it is an arena with boards - no fence. She would just bugger off to her paddock to eat ;) thanks for the ideas though.
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Ahh.....tricky! No electric tape you could use to fence a corner off? Whats she like out of the school, could you long rein her out anywhere or just play some games with her or better still force yourself to get on board (I know, sometimes its just too much effort, lol) after all 20mins of good work is better than 40 mins of bad effort!
 
Do you have an instructor you trust that can get her going? Lungeing is such an art and you can always learn different ways of proceeding. Timing and confidence are so important. Good luck,!!
 
To help a pony get used to the idea of lunging I used to have someone on the outside of the circle leading from the cavesson with a normal lead rope, very loose just to hold the horse out on the circle. It didnt take long for them to understand what was needed of them
 
What's your body language like? A lot of people face the horses belly. Try making your body an extension of your whip arm, so you make a triangle with the horse as one side, the lunge rein and arm as another side and that shoulder as the point of the triangle, your body and whip arm plus whip make the third side. This way you're facing the direction of travel and you want to be standing behind the girth a little, looking the horse in the eye. If the horse cuts in towards you for even a stride or two its easy to end up standing too far forward of the horse and blocking forward movement. You need to be visibly driving her from behind. Hope this makes sense. Even if all you do is fight with her its still exercise. I'd rather jump on bareback for 20min decent work though, if I was short if time.
 
Hmmmm...lol. Think yourself lucky (in a way) we have one that just p****s off if you try to lunge him.. he doesn't go anywhere, just makes a point lol.

Seriously, try with two lines, it more than doubles your steering control and, if you think about it, makes a lot more sense to the horse. If you haven't done it before then borrow a horse that has and learn on that one before getting tangled up with your problematic ned.

Good luck.
 
Hey Billie, good on you for persevering!

I have a teensy 7hh shetland mare, haven't got a rider for her and her weight is a constant problem. She's a complete sweetheart and loves anything with a pulse. BUT, she thinks lunging is a hideous form of torture and uses a particularly mean form of evasion to get out of it. She will just stand there, facing me, with enormous puppy-dog eyes that say mother, don't make me do this, don't you love me any more coz I love you I really do and I don't understand why you are doing this to me, please come and hug me instead. It's awful! What can I do???

So I got some professional help for her own good. My friend RI told me I had to harden my heart and be ruthless and mean to her. Very hard! But RI started her on a tiny circle, not taking puppy-dog-eyes-no for an answer. Took her 5 minutes, that's all (swine!!!) Passed her over to me and by pretending she was someone else's pony and ignoring all the piteous looks, I got her going too. Result!

I'd echo an earlier poster, you need to harden your heart, stand up tall, shoulders back, you're Attilla The Hun. Mean it. Pretend she isn't yours. Dislike her! Get YOUR attitude levels higher than your mare's! And I would say DON'T look her in the eyes...that will be a "block" to her. Stare at her bum and push her with the power of your mind and pure "intention". She's learnt to ignore you despite any persuasion and EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU'VE GIVEN UP YOU'VE TRAINED HER TO SAY NO!!!!!!!! So now you have to set aside as long as it takes, even to just get her to take half a step forward. You got her going nicely for 3 minutes once...do it again but BEFORE she has a chance to decide enough is enough, YOU stop, give her massive cuddles, tell her what a brilliant girl she is, give her a polo if that won't cause more problems. If you can't get her going for 3 minutes again, if she even THINKS about giving you a step forward, praise, praise and more praise. And always always end on a high, even if that means you stop after 30 seconds! As she improves and learns that she will have to still be standing there in the rain at midnight if she refuses, ie you WILL NOT take no for an answer, you can gradually ask for more. You need to re-establish that YOU'RE the lead mare, not her. You can do it!!!!! Role play it if necessary - who's your fave tough guy actor? BE that person! Now GO GIRL xxxxx
 
Box_Of_Frogs said:
Hey Billie, good on you for persevering!

I have a teensy 7hh shetland mare, haven't got a rider for her and her weight is a constant problem. She's a complete sweetheart and loves anything with a pulse. BUT, she thinks lunging is a hideous form of torture and uses a particularly mean form of evasion to get out of it. She will just stand there, facing me, with enormous puppy-dog eyes that say mother, don't make me do this, don't you love me any more coz I love you I really do and I don't understand why you are doing this to me, please come and hug me instead. It's awful! What can I do???

So I got some professional help for her own good. My friend RI told me I had to harden my heart and be ruthless and mean to her. Very hard! But RI started her on a tiny circle, not taking puppy-dog-eyes-no for an answer. Took her 5 minutes, that's all (swine!!!) Passed her over to me and by pretending she was someone else's pony and ignoring all the piteous looks, I got her going too. Result!

I'd echo an earlier poster, you need to harden your heart, stand up tall, shoulders back, you're Attilla The Hun. Mean it. Pretend she isn't yours. Dislike her! Get YOUR attitude levels higher than your mare's! And I would say DON'T look her in the eyes...that will be a "block" to her. Stare at her bum and push her with the power of your mind and pure "intention". She's learnt to ignore you despite any persuasion and EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU'VE GIVEN UP YOU'VE TRAINED HER TO SAY NO!!!!!!!! So now you have to set aside as long as it takes, even to just get her to take half a step forward. You got her going nicely for 3 minutes once...do it again but BEFORE she has a chance to decide enough is enough, YOU stop, give her massive cuddles, tell her what a brilliant girl she is, give her a polo if that won't cause more problems. If you can't get her going for 3 minutes again, if she even THINKS about giving you a step forward, praise, praise and more praise. And always always end on a high, even if that means you stop after 30 seconds! As she improves and learns that she will have to still be standing there in the rain at midnight if she refuses, ie you WILL NOT take no for an answer, you can gradually ask for more. You need to re-establish that YOU'RE the lead mare, not her. You can do it!!!!! Role play it if necessary - who's your fave tough guy actor? BE that person! Now GO GIRL xxxxx
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Well said!

If she turns in towards you use the lunge whip hard across her front legs, and be quick to then get it behind her and drive her forward.

Get tough, be 'mean' be determined and she will love you more for it.
 
ok here is another suggestion to add to the collection, it will require a friend and you.

tack up and pop friend on said pony attach lunge line and use you friend on top as the positive enforcement for the lunging. get them to start riding a 20 m circle and then let you take over the reins as it walk and trot at your command, if mare stops the rider then keeps her on the circle and forward moving gradually and hopefully you should end up with your friend just sitting there and all direction comes from you.

she has worked out which buttons to press and how to avoid sounds a tad to much brain power.

also when you are leading her and handling her use the same commands as in walk and move over. mine listens me so much i can not say the word "AND" anymore as she knows this means a downward transition and you get walk to halt, or canter to trot on the lunge.
 
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