Tuck and roll

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Booboos

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I think everyone seems to agree that learning to tuck and roll might help prevent rider injuries, so here are my ideas on how to improve tuck and roll:

- when we were kids we used to spend hours at the pool trying to do forward flips off the diving board. Learning how to use your head, curve your back and use the momentum to flip yourself over and into the water might help create muscle memory for how to tuck and roll. Although we had some mildly painful landings, falling into water is unlikely to be dangerous so you can really play around with different techniques.

- never tried it myself, but I wonder if a similar thing can be done with a trampoline

- falling off lessons. I remember doing these as a kid and provided you have someone who knows what they are doing to help you on the ground this could be a really good idea. We would start with the instructor by the side helping us flip in the air, a bit like trainers help gymnasts by putting an arm at the right place to help the rotation.
 
I thought you had been doing some acrobatics when i read the title of this post Booboo's:D

Ive never ever had a falling off lesson & i do all i can not to end up on the floor lol. Don't think i could even tuck a roll tbh now im just not that supple these days.:(
 
LOL, no I haven't crash landed!

There's been a lot of discussion on whether some BPs are better than others and I am not too sure how this issue can be decided without proper studies. Either way though it does seem constructive to think about how to fall better!
 
i'm a big proponent of practising for falling off. i'm old enough and was lucky enough to have been taught to fall, at riding school in the 70s. (fwiw the only times i've hurt myself falling off have been when I have landed on my feet... go figure, as they say!)
have a look at the XC Corner articles in the Archives, How To Fall and Improving The Odds.
NeilM (our resident Martial Arts Guru) and I put them together. Or, look at the vids linked to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W93w6aw26Ls
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kItc4PJtCa4&feature=related

Neil said: practise to left and right, you'll be rubbish to start with so you may as well be rubbish at both and improve both!
Start crouching in a squat, and gently rock forwards tucking your head in and aiming your shoulder blade at the ground, and fall into the roll. Do this both over the left and right shoulders, both forwards and backwards. As confidence grows you should progress to be able to perform this roll from a walk. Sideways is MUCH harder and the fast way is just to start falling sideways, then to twist 90 degrees and into a forward roll. More impressive is an advanced technique much like a cartwheel, but rolling across the shoulders with no intervention from the arms.
and
NEVER try to roll over the top of your head in the classic school PE type roll. Always aim your shoulder at the ground, with the intention of impacting the ground with your shoulder blade / back.

Go practise... we're going to here!
 
I went through a phase of falling off quite a lot - culminating in nearly giving my RI a heart attack by landing head first (slow fall and no damage done but could have been nasty).
I was wondering if I should suggest our stables run a 'how to fall off' course with a judo instructor and lots of gym mats.
 
Great stuff, thanks Kerilli! Wonder if Admin would sticky these links?

Vikki89: I know what you mean, it does happen really fast, but there is a thought that if your body learns to do it there is a chance that habit will take over and you will tuck and roll even without thinking about it (obviously it won't be possible in every kind of fall, but when possible). I had a friend who build up from forward flips on the diving board to doing forward flips from the ground all by himself!
 
Booboos, I think your suggestions might actually be more risky. Kerrilli's suggestion of a martial arts instructor teaching you how to fall is a good one or a parachute instructor would probably be able to teach you to fall safely from height too.

For the record trying to do a somersault on a trampoline is extremely dangerous and should never be done without a qualified instructor and a special safety harness as it can result in a broken neck. Likewise trying to somersault off a diving board is very risky, although you aren't likely to get more than bruising from hitting the water there is a significant risk of hitting your head on the diving board/side of the pool. I know someone who nearly died after hitting their head when diving into a pool.

I think crash mats are the way forward!
 
Yes, of course I am sure there are risks in all activities.

I imagine a diving instructor could teach you how to dive and a trampoline instructor could teach you how to trampoline and at the same time there must be people out there who have managed to injure themselves doing martial arts without supervision, so everyone should take care.
 
I completely agree with the tuck and roll. I do judo and trampoline so I think my tuck and roll is pretty established! :D lol just grab a crash mat and throw yourself a bout a bit and see what happens :P
 
or a well bedded-down stable, with a rug on top if you want to stay clean... just something softer than concrete, at least to begin with.
the vids help, but tbh if you have NO experience of rolls/breakfalls i think a lesson or two with a Martial Arts instructor is a great idea, they'll be able to prevent bad habits from the start...
 
So agree Kerilli, I was also taught to fall, and in all my years the worst I have done was crack my sternum, by holding onto the reins of a horse who went up and right as I went down and left, and yes, I landed on my feet, got back on, rode (albeit gingerly) for a week and then got up early one morning and it cracked!!
 
It does become instinctive... I haven't fallen off for a few years now but a couple of weeks ago I managed to get tangled up with my squash partner, caught my ankle round his leg and seeing as he's several stone heavier than me and I was running at the time I went flying, but instinctively let my racket go and tucked and rolled avoiding what would otherwise have been a nasty fall.

PS I wouldn't recommend practising on a squash court floor... they're quite hard!
 
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When I did the training with Chris Bartle we started very much the way Kerilli mentioned, ie first crouching, then standing tucking your head in and roll shoulder first to the floor. We did then progress to doing this on a trampoline, just to give us the feeling of doing it with a bit more speed, and with a bit of height involved. We were not told to somersault (as Katt said, that is potentially dangerous), but to tuck in your head, and roll onto either left or right shoulder. From the trampoline we progressed to rolling from ontop of a (gym) horse (onto a mat!). Then finally we had to run, jump off a spring board onto the (gym) horse, then tuck and roll straight off on to the mat. This meant we had momentum and height, which actually gave quite a similar feeling to when you really fall off your horse. This training lasted a full day. I literally did hundreds, if not thousands of these rolls, and now I find it is my automatic reaction when I do fall off.
 
charlimouse said:
When I did the training with Chris Bartle we started very much the way Kerilli mentioned, ie first crouching, then standing tucking your head in and roll shoulder first to the floor. We did then progress to doing this on a trampoline, just to give us the feeling of doing it with a bit more speed, and with a bit of height involved. We were not told to somersault (as Katt said, that is potentially dangerous), but to tuck in your head, and roll onto either left or right shoulder. From the trampoline we progressed to rolling from ontop of a (gym) horse (onto a mat!). Then finally we had to run, jump off a spring board onto the (gym) horse, then tuck and roll straight off on to the mat. This meant we had momentum and height, which actually gave quite a similar feeling to when you really fall off your horse. This training lasted a full day. I literally did hundreds, if not thousands of these rolls, and now I find it is my automatic reaction when I do fall off.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a very useful way of doing it. Perhaps BE could sponsor a few travelling clinics on falling off along these lines?
 
I think this comes under Rider Responsibility, tbh. I doubt BE would be interested, they weren't last summer when I floated the idea of getting the equichute (Fall Simulator) over here for testing, training, etc. It's up to riders to do whatever they feel they need, I guess...
 
i dont know about anyone else but i wouldn't mind chipping in some money for a day / morning training session, i think it could really come in useful. I am sure the reps from woof wear, P2, Champion etc... would be happy to attend and offer advise.
 
I met an acrobat (on a long train journey) and he is meant to be getting in touch to come and teach the kids how to roll/fall :)

Martial arts include instruction in how to fall, often from heights and working up to being quite fast!
 
I do believe that a fall from a horse is very different from martial arts. It has absolutely nothing to do with parachute training (the two are quite incompatable). Once a rider realises that he is about to fall,he recieves an almost instantaneous ,massive ,shot of adrenaline. This has the effect of speeding up brain function.Because the brain does not understand that it is now running faster,we get the "slow motion "effect. This gives the rider the ability to act very quickly.My own personal technique has always been to relax and go with the flow for the first part of the fall.Absorb the energy and roll.Then roll like crazy away from the horse. No amount of training will make your reactions faster than the reflex arcs between the stretch receptors in your tendons and the muscles they serve.So dont tense up in a fall. let your body react to the loads it receives.WHAT REALLY COUNTS IS YOUR PERSONAL LEVEL OF FITNESS. Neck muscles will automaticly tense against a twist, but if you have insufficient strength and fitness, your body will loose.
 
It's the landing that I was thinking of - the shoulder down first and into the roll. I used to do a lot of Aikido and from what I remember we got thrown from varying heigts, at some speed and with little or no warning :)
 
I see where your coming from mrs M. However the amount of energy and the speed of a seroius fall is a lot greater than in martial arts. What most people fail to realise is that when you fall off over a fence you dont simply fall off your horses back. ( A bit of physics here) You fall from the maximum height your horse reaches over the fence,you accelerate all the way down and the point you leave your horse is almost irrelevant. Unfortunately the point the reactions kick in is as you leave the plate, but it is a damn sight quicker than a throw in martial arts because you have already accelerated considerably.
 
It does make sense that a fall from a horse would be a lot faster and with more force than practicing rolling, but I am not quite sure why this should make a difference to the value of practicing. Practicing something slower and more gently will help learn it and may help do it when it happens faster and with more force.

I am a very clumsy person but I have found it very helpful to practice doing things, because it does teach my body to move in a different way.
 
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