Turmeric troubles

Lucybis1

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My arthritic mare is supposed to be on daily turmeric with olive oil and pepper to help her joints. I noticed a good improvement and she seemed to loosen up. However, since the colder weather has come, the olive oil has been freezing overnight and has to be unfrozen in order to give it. I do this with no qualms but I have noticed that since my yard manager has been looking after my horse for 3/7 days a week over the last couple of weeks, she had been noticeably more stiff. It transpired today that my YM has not been giving my mare her turmeric because of the effort required to defrost it. Would this reduction in turmeric cause the stiffness? And should I say something to my YM?
 

Limbo1

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Try microised (sp) linseed it is powder so doesn't freeze. I would talk to YM I would be really annoyed as this has quite probably put your mare back.
 

windand rain

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the simple answer is yes the lack of turmeric could explain the increase stiffness. I dont use olive oil but Micronised linseed meal. I feed 25mls of turmeric to 75 mls of linseed meal and freshly ground black pepper in a feed of oatstraw chaff and a few soaked grassnuts. Mine are a bit fat so am trying to reduce their weight and are still strip grazed too but the linseed turmeric and pepper can be added direct to the feed and of course never freezes as its all powder
 

Lucybis1

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Yes she's on Thunderbrook base mix which I believe has Micronised linseed as one of its ingredients. I am annoyed with YM I've noticed the gradual worsening of her stiffness and then tonight checked her feeds to find no trace of turmeric. Asked one of the liveries who confirmed. Have had issues with rugging too, I'll ask for a warmer rug to be put on only to discover it's not happened. Will be having a word with YM.
 

CeeBee

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I make my turmeric mix up daily at home and take it with me to feed. I one of those Tupperware boxes with a waterproof seal. I just put all my ingredients in, mix it with water then shake it. I make enough for 2 feeds then take it home in the evening ready to make up for the following morning. It also mixes better in the feed this way.
 

Morgan123

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AFAIK there is no evidence in horses to suggest oil is needed for uptake; can't remember the details but the oil thing comes from human research and horses have completely different uptake of turmeric anyway, so when I last checked the outcome was that actually oil isn't necessarily needed at all for horses - or pepper! I use it without and have never had a problem, and I know many others who do the same.
 

Tash88

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It doesn't need to be oil, the turmeric just needs to be mixed with some sort of fat and freshly ground black pepper. So micronised linseed would be fine as the fat component. I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of turmeric has caused your mare to stiffen up a bit and it would be interesting to see what happens when she starts having it again.

This is one of the reasons why I put all of my horse's supplements (turmeric plus a few other powders) into little tupperware tubs at the weekend; my horse is on part livery so then my YO only has to put a tub in each feed, add a few squirts of oil and grind the pepper. I then have some control over what he is having and I'm not the awkward livery whose horse has loads of supplements! I'm sure they wouldn't think that but it makes me feel better having been on DIY for so long previously.
 

Yertis

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I use linseed oil and make up .5 of a kilo at a time with 650ml of linseed oil & 30g pepper, this hasn't frozen in the last 2 winters so might be worth a try, it also suspends better if you allow the turmeric to cool after cooking before adding the pepper and oil :)
 

9tails

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As others have said, use micronised linseed. I use that and it doesn't freeze as it's almost powder. Very tasty, says horse.
 

Cinnamontoast

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Pretty sure fresh ground pepper is needed for bioavailability and the active ingredient-piperine-dissipates after 20 minutes unless held in a soluble solution ie oil (or alcohol!) This is why you're advised to use the paste for humans. I have heard anecdotal evidence about horses having the cooked stuff and showing significant improvements compared to the dry mix.
 

Morgan123

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Cinnamontoast - this info is only for people; AFAIK nobody has showed this with horses, and the uptake for horses HAS been shown to be different hence no evidence that oil and pepper is actually needed at all for equines.
 

Yertis

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Doug English, Australian vet, Turmeric User Group, only person I know who has and is researching, says pepper and oil for horses. I used to use turmeric by itself and the difference, cooked, then pepper and oil added as per his instructions, was huge for my arthritic horse. Perhaps it depends on the condition/severity of what you are feeding it for?
 

Cinnamontoast

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Yes, that's why I said about anectodally for the cooked stuff. I make no claims to know about absorption for horses, but if piperine is involved, it's pointless making up tubs in advance. IF, because there's no evidence for equine use.
 

Ladyinred

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Olive oil, along with groundnut oil, solidifies easily. Veg or rapeseed oil may prove easier although even those have their limitations.
 

mytwofriends

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I've had the same issue with my olive oil solidifying recently, but I've continued using turmeric for my oldie as he's like a different horse. Stiff as a board on joint supplements and bute, but positively limber on his two teaspoons of turmeric per day, and nothing else supplement-wise. I daren't take him off it.

As regards the oil and pepper, I'm sceptical they're absolutely necessary, but then again it's no trouble adding them, so I do. I'm not text-book though, as I make approximately four days' feeds up at a time, and pre-add the turmeric and oil to those, only grinding in the pepper on the day. Even then, it's usually added to the evening feed in the morning. Nonetheless, he's like a gymnast compared to a year ago, so however I'm doing it appears to agree with him.

OP, I'd be mighty miffed if I was relying on someone else who wasn't doing the job properly, especially your Yard Manager. Totally unacceptable.
 

Pigeon

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Or the cold that's freezing the oil could be what's caused the increase in stiffness....
 
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mytwofriends

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Or the cold that's freezing the oil could be what's caused the increase in stiffness....
My oldie has shown no adverse effects in the cold and he really is very arthritic - coffin joints and hocks. Turmeric is the one supplement which has truly helped him. He didn't even seize up when he had to stay in for a couple of days during the recent wet weather.

I sound like the sort of slightly overly enthusiastic person I used to scoff at!
 

MagicMelon

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I thought you weren't meant to use olive oil as it takes away the anti-inflammatory effect? I use cold pressed, organic coconut oil which I read was best. I use it to make up Golden Paste which I use for the horses and for myself. I dont find the paste freezes at all - hasnt so far and it was -8 here the other night. So you could try that? Then the YO just needs to give a tablespoon full (or however much you feed).
 

acorn92x

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I would suggest using Linseed oil instead of olive oil. I have never had a problem with this freezing or solidifying overnight in cold temperatures. Micronised linseed is also excellent but my fussy girl won't touch a feed with this in it, hence why I use linseed oil! Is there a reason why you use olive oil instead if you don't mind me asking? I know several horses, including mine who won't eat it due to its slightly bitter taste.
 

DonskiWA

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Check out the product 'Tumericle'. It's an all-in-one supplement with Tumeric, coconut oil and pepper. It's a smidge more expensive than adding the 3 ingredients individually, but would be much easier to add to feeds and just as effective apparently.
 

9tails

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Check out the product 'Tumericle'. It's an all-in-one supplement with Tumeric, coconut oil and pepper. It's a smidge more expensive than adding the 3 ingredients individually, but would be much easier to add to feeds and just as effective apparently.

A "smidge" is possibly the biggest understatement of this century. £18.12 for 500g! I'm buying 1kg of turmeric from Valley View at under £2.89 (admittedly in bulk so 10kg at a time), a pepper grinder from Aldi is 89p and a 20kg bag of micronised linseed is £20.
 

Lucybis1

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Thank you for all the advice. I do use thunderbrook base mix so think I will cut out oil altogether. It has also transpired that my YM has not been giving her her (every other day) bute. Not happy!
 
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