Turn youngster away now or wait unti this 'issue' is resolved?

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Ahrena

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Quick question!

I bought a very smart 4 year old a couple of months ago. I gave her a week or so to settle in then did lots of groundwork before backing her (she was unbacked). I've been riding her for about 3 weeks now.

I was planning on turning her away after this week. Only planning on giving her a month off as she is already 4 so doesn't need to go away and grow as much as a 3yo would, but do want to give her time mentally to process everything that has happened to her in the last 3 months (was imported from Germany 3 weeks before I got her).

Now yesterday I messed up a little. I was schooling her and it was the second time I've cantered her under saddle. She was very good the first time, picked up correct lead first time.

Yesterday she didn't on the left rein and I'm ashamed to say I got a little focused on it. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't hammering around until she got it but I brought her back to trot and asked her again a few times. Being the second time she'd cantered under saddle the aids weren't exactly established and as I was focusing on canter lead I ended up flapping a bit and giving her a couple of pony club kicks.

Now she obviously got confused as I wasn't praising her appropriately for going into canter in the first place and pony club kicks/flapping put her off balance so she started putting in some bucks. Nothing nasty just a 'stop nagging me' kind of thing.

After a bit I just started sitting and asking more vocally for the canter and she went much better, albeit still with some bucks. Eventually we had a canter on each rein with no buck so ledt it at that,

Sounds like we were in there for a marathon but only 20-25 minutes!

Decided to school her again today, I don't usually school her twice in a row but wanted to nip this in the bud. She was quite tense to start with and humped her back in trot once - obviously anticipating kicking and flapping :(

Did lots of canter transitions with just sitting, light squeeze and vocal commands. Transitions into canter were actually quite sharp with this. I only cantered for like 3 strides then trotted and gave her a rest and a pat. The first sort of half of the canter transitions were accompanied with a buck although she was much happier to go into canter. The second half had no bucks, although just when I was about to finish she bucked so i did a few more and she was fine.

Again was only 20 minutes btw, don't want you to think i was in there for hours!

Now anyway, I don't want to school her too much at this point as want to do lots of hacking and make things fun.

But now not sure whether to keep her in work for another week or two so we can have a few more schooling sessions and make sure she understands we don't buck going into canter, as I don't want to turn her away and enforce her idea about bucking?

Or if i do turn her away is she likely just forget about it, as she did get much better today?

Btw just so you know, i have backed several horses as it used to be part of my job BUT she's my first own youngster so much more paranoid about getting it right! Also our canters are in a 40 x 60 school and consist of a few steps down the long side before I ask her to trot. Trot is pretty well balanced and she is starting to offer an outline, I wanted to introduce canter early so is not a neglected gait and she canters well on the lunge so i do feel she is balanced enough.
 
Can you not canter her out hacking rather than the school to take her mind off things? My mare came to me at 4 with a buck into canter and its taken nearly a year for it to disappear most of the time! Does she long line on a circle, I've done lots of transitions on the long lines with my mare and this has definitely helped under saddle too.

Ps, she had been turned away when I got her, I think because they couldn't cope with her many problems they had instilled after professional backing, so I would sort it before you turn her away, but I'd think outside the box on how to do it.
 
Unfortunately its at least an hour and a half hack if I want to go somewhere to canter, which i think is a bit unfair to ask of her at this point. We've only been doing 20-30 minute hacks as she is unshod ATM and is sore on stones (didn't see the point in shoeing her when she had a trim last week as was planning on turning away).

Otherwise I would of introduced it out cantering in the first place as much easier
for her to understand when following another horse.

She does long rein, and is fine then. (apart from if she gets the wrong leg she changed in front then humps around a bit as can't work out why her legs aren't working when she's disunited lol! But that's been fine lately as she's just picking up the correct lead). But would be good to do thar a couple of times before I ask under saddle to renforce going into canter without bucking.

Thanks :)
 
I wouldn't worry too much about putting off turning her away - just hack her out for a couple of days, then do a little walk and trot work in the school and then just turn her away. She will probably forget all about it and come back fresh, and even if the issue is still there when you bring her back I very much doubt you will reinforce it if you do a few days work without canter before turning her away.
 
Just hack her out, 'working' on legs aids, hacking in front, behind on her own etc. She is obviously finding it hard, I would say schooling is 4 times as hard as hacking out a part from being boring. The rider gets fixated on the fiddly bits which make no sense to the horse and then it starts protesting, then you get a battle.
 
We hit a few snags with my (4 y/o), and she became quite sour. This also coincided with a big hormonal problem and a new saddle being needed, so she has been semi turned away.

She had full vet/saddler checks. The new saddle was due to be fitted today but I am rather unwell so have had to put that off for another month, so she has just been mooching about already for 6 weeks, doing tiny bits of groundwork, and will be doing the same for another month. (I have only kept up with the ground work to keep her manners intact)

She's a much sweeter horse for having had the break, so although it's not something I had really planned on I do think it's been beneficial for her.

With your bucking issue, I would be putting her back on the long reins and letting her establish her canter and strike off alone and give her the responsibility to get it right herself. My mare was funny, she started off always on the wrong lead just one way, then she started correcting herself and doing a flying change so she didn't have to keep coming back to trot, then she twigged and was picking up the correct leg all the time. I think then when we canter under saddle she's automatically going to connect aids with what will be correct IYSWIM. Agree with others about cantering on a hack being easier, but obviously that's not going to be feasible for you :(

So in short, I have turned mine away without resolving issues, but I had no real choice! Hopefully it'll work out, if not we start again.
 
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There was a thread the other day about where people first cantered their youngsters. Most said out hacking following another horse. Can you not box to suitable hacking? Is there a field at your yard you could use, somewhere a little more open could help. Although it does sound like it's really the pressure you are putting on yourself and her that is upsetting her rather than the cantering itself so I would take that pressure off for a week or so and just go hacking working on forward transitions to help her understand the forward requests and try again in a couple of weeks.

As she has only been in work for such a short time, is a break really required at this stage or could you keep going, teach canter strike offs at her own pace and then give her a break?
 
Thanks guys, lots of food for thought.

I don't think it's a big issue really, given she was already striking off without bucking later in the session today, I just upset her a bit and she's expecting a big kick I think!

Once she's in canter she's happy and the canter wasn't even taking a lot of coaxing today (like she goes forwards into it pretty much as soon as I asked 90% its just accompanied with a buck some of the time although she did pretty much stop doing it towards the end of the session). She was fairly forwards in the canter, I just didn't keep her in it very long as didn't want to encourage her breaking out of canter by trying to circle or go round the short sides.

Hope that makes sense? Just don't want people to think it's a bigger problem than it is. I'm pretty confident it'll resolve over time, but I don't want to school her too much and just worried giving her a break before time off before she has 100% stopped doing it will make it worse in the long run.

I could box out to some hacking but little concerned about doing this when she's only been in work for such a short amount of time. I certainy do see the benefit of cantering out hacking to start with, and always have done previously but like I said its a bit trickier to do that here.

We ren't allowed to ride in the fields unfortunately. There's a massive one which would be perfect as its nice and flat too but we had strangles on the yard last year and people wanted to do that but we weren't allowed.

Wheels - I wanted to give her a break sooner than later as her life has turned upside down in the last 3 months (moving from a barn-living lifestyle in Germany to coming to the uk, spending 3 weeks chucked out in a field then another 5 hour journey to me) and has since done a fair bit of groundwork as well. I'm also pretty busy with work the next few weeks so seemed ideal.

HOWEVER she doesn't /need/ a break now, it can certainly wait :)
 
honetpot said:
Just hack her out, 'working' on legs aids, hacking in front, behind on her own etc. She is obviously finding it hard, I would say schooling is 4 times as hard as hacking out a part from being boring. The rider gets fixated on the fiddly bits which make no sense to the horse and then it starts protesting, then you get a battle.
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I agree - and forget about cantering. You've done it, she understood. Now just get her out and about to enjoy the scenery.
 
I wouldn't bother turning her away fullstop, just take the workload down a level, lots of easy hacks (riding three times a week), nothing stressful not much schooling at all, just getting used to carrying the rider and finding her balance for a few months.
 
I take my 4 yr old off in the box quite frequently without any probs. First few times he was on edge and still takes a few mins to stand for me to mount. Sooner they get out sooner they get used to it :D
 
sounds like too much too soon all that moving, change in life style, then backed and schooling, cantering in school lots of transitions, she may be 4 but just backed and with a history of being barn kept fairly recently she will not have the muscle or the fitness to all that it sounds like is being asked to do.
personally I would turn her away for a month after a couple of days relaxed hacking then start again and think about getting her fit before asking for too much canter work in a confined area.
get the saddle fit checked and her back too before you bring her back into work a lot has been asked of her and her body will have changed
 
I agree about getting the saddle checked. My mare has changed from a Wide to a Medium Wide (hence needing a new saddle) over the backing period

I think it's such a delicate stage and I know I don't want her to be associating any discomfort in her back from being ridden.

Also at 4, my mare is still very babyish. Your horse tried to tell you something (whatever it is) I would listen!
 
twiggy2 said:
sounds like too much too soon all that moving, change in life style, then backed and schooling, cantering in school lots of transitions, she may be 4 but just backed and with a history of being barn kept fairly recently she will not have the muscle or the fitness to all that it sounds like is being asked to do.
personally I would turn her away for a month after a couple of days relaxed
hacking then start again and think about getting her fit before asking for too much canter work in a confined area.

get the saddle fit checked and her back too before you bring her back into work
a lot has been asked of her and her body will have changed
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That's true actually. I didn't really consider her barn keptness in this.

Anyhow. I think i will stick to my original plan (which was tomorrow off, hack sat and sun then turn away for a month). When she comes back she'll just do lots of hacking to begin with.

She will defo have back and saddle checked before she comes back - if she's sore it's just asking for trouble!
 
I would not worry and turn away now if you want to .
Your school is large I would not worry about cantering in it.
Have fun with her.
 
Ahrena said:
That's true actually. I didn't really consider her barn keptness in this.

Anyhow. I think i will stick to my original plan (which was tomorrow off, hack sat and sun then turn away for a month). When she comes back she'll just do lots of hacking to begin with.

She will defo have back and saddle checked before she comes back - if she's sore it's just asking for trouble!
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I think that's the right call. She'll chill out, unwind for a bit and the problem will probably have disappeared by the time you come back to cantering. Good luck :)
 
Thanks :)

I've gotten a bit paranoid now, I was intending on taking her to an in hand show on Monday then turning away after. Mainly to see the atmosphere ect as by the time she comes back the 'summer shows' will of finished.

But i don't want to kill her brain so shall i leave it? I havn't pre enetered and I'm not too bothered either way, just thought it wou
D be a good experience for her.

But now I'm doubting whether I should.
 
It's up to you - you know her and know how she is likely to cope with unusual things. If she's generally not the sort to lose her brain in stressful situations then there's no reason why not. If you get there and she's a bit stressed out then you can just walk her off to find a quiet corner, let her take it in, give her a groom if she likes that and then take her home.
 
I would just say, forget the cantering, just hack her out. If you feel you want/need to turn her away then fair enough but I don't think there's necessarily a need for it. I would think the bucking was probably due to you pushing her out of balance so to be honest I would concentrate on hacking and ensuring her trot is nice and balanced and practice trot to walk, walk to trot transitions and ensure she is pushing off with her hind not launching in to trot with her front end.

I wish mine was this far on. We were hacking well, started going out on my own then it all went wrong resulting on me on the floor twice!) seemingly down to saddle issues. That was several months ago now and I've not had a saddle back on him since and am trying to work on getting him balanced and loose on the lunge and listening to me on the ground!

They're all different but at 4 yo there's no need to rush them/push them as, hopefully they have many years ahead to work on these things!!
 
The best tip I ever got about riding mares is to never 'clamp' or kick too hard with the legs as this simulates the action of how a stallion will grip them when mounting and can make them tense/freeze. Sounds really weird but actually works! If she was mine I would make sure that she responds to the voice command of canter and say canter loudly as you place the aid so that she can associate the leg command with the act of cantering. If she has wrong leg then a quick pat and bring back to trot to ask again, if its the correct leg then a larger pat and a clear good girl followed by loose rein. Good luck!
 
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