Turning an orchard into grazing for horses

[Marigold4]

I currently rent my horses' field but thinking ahead it would be better to buy some land as my income will be much reduced but I will get some capital on retirement. 3 acres is possibly coming up for sale near me but one acre was planted as an orchard about 15 years ago. Would it be impossible/difficult to take out the fruit trees and return it to pasture? The trees look pretty established. I will need the full 3 acres and wouldn't want to graze round the trees - they are quite thickly planted.

 

[JackFrost]

Apple trees are fairly easy to get rid of, they grow on root stock and chopping at the base will just leave a stump. Horses may chew off any regrowth. Perhaps a day's work for a tree surgeon, who can also chip up the branches. If you need to completely grind out the stumps, it will cost more. Or just thin out and let the horses in some of the year, fine so long as they are not stuffing themselves on apples. It is surprising how quickly land can return to pasture once trees are removed. Once the stumps are dead they will rot away naturally.

 

[Marigold4]

thanks for replying. If we chopped down the trees and dug out the roots in spring, then back-filled the holes and re-seeded , do you think it would be useable as grazing the following winter?

 

[sport horse]

Can you find local JCB type machine? That will clear the whole orchard roots and all in no time (few hours) Do it in dry weather and with a bit of grass seed it will soon recover. Look around for a friendly neighbouring farmer - they have machinery and can often be persuaded to take on a bit of contract work

 

[JackFrost]

thanks for replying. If we chopped down the trees and dug out the roots in spring, then back-filled the holes and re-seeded , do you think it would be useable as grazing the following winter?

Possibly for light grazing only, depends on the weather, your land, what grass cover is already there etc. Winter + horses will trash even good grazing.
Just a thought - if you are removing trees, maybe plant a hedge or something? We are all supposed to be planting trees, not getting rid of them!

 

[Goldenstar]

Stumps can be lethal for horses .
They are safer with the trees .
You can’t dig out stump without a digger the easiest way is to use a stump grinder this is expensive .
You also need to check the basis they where planted on if it was on a grant you may not be able to remove them .
Please leave some trees we ought not be cutting trees down to support keeping herbivores for leisure .

thanks for replying. If we chopped down the trees and dug out the roots in spring, then back-filled the holes and re-seeded , do you think it would be useable as grazing the following winter?

No removing stumps will leave the soil unstable for a while you will have reseed then top and roll I would leave it at least one year and then use it only in dry weather until the sward is established

 

[sunnyone]

Why not just thin the trees? Less work and the grass will naturally grow back over quite quickly. We used our orchard (12 trees maybe) as a restricted grazing paddock. My mare twice chose to have her foals out there even though she had 24/24 access to a good sized foaling box.
We rotated our paddocks and did not allow access to the orchard if the fruit was nearing maturity, nor did we plan to use it over winter as it was at the bottom of a slope.
Stumps cut down to ground level are dangerous as Goldenstar says but left at 50cm high until they are removed will be visible to the horses.

 

[dorsetladette]

I'd be worried about the amount of water the trees are absorbing and how that would affect the ground if they were removed.

 

[SpotsandBays]

I would leave them in (as above, Seems a shame to be removing trees when we should be planting more!)
Could you Section it off over the summer and then use it for winter grazing when all the fruit is gone?

 

[JackFrost]

I'd be worried about the amount of water the trees are absorbing and how that would affect the ground if they were removed.

Good point. They weren't necessarily planted because the owners like apples. Also you should look at the deeds for the classification of the land and any need to apply for change of use.

And this-

Please leave some trees we ought not be cutting trees down to support keeping herbivores for leisure .

 

[Abby-Lou]

yes all possible & I have seen it done with ten acres before and the farmer now mows for silage and you would never know the trees were there definitely did not affect grass growth

 

[Widgeon]

Please leave some trees we ought not be cutting trees down to support keeping herbivores for leisure .

I did think this seemed rather sad - our yard has an orchard (much more established though) that we use for ocasional grazing, usually in the winter. It isn't an issue at all and the horses just graze around and between the trees. The only thing to be careful of is that they don't scoff all the apples in the autumn, so if there's horses in there YO picks up the windfalls and the lower hanging apples, stores them in wheelbarrows and doles them out at feed time. Otherwise they're left for the birds and the badgers. The trees don't affect grass growth at all. It's nice.

 

[Peglo]

I also think it would be a shame to cut them all down. I would love an orchard for my horses. Much more interesting than a square field to live in.
As for grass, does new seed not need at least a year to develop good roots? I thought if it was too new the roots wouldn’t be strong enough and they would pull the whole plant out. But that maybe depends on grass and soil.

 

[tristar]

i would jcb the trees, fill in the holes with some stone then top with soil and seed,
i would sell the wood for firewood, apple logs smell gorgeous when burning that might cover some of the costs of the work.

then plant some hedges with horse friendly bushes and hedges, we have them and the horses spend hours browsing in the hedges and they make great windbreaks

while trees are great for shade and scratching i would be worried about then eating the apples and choke etc

 

[windand rain]

Personally I would love to have them for the short time they would live after being ring barked by the ponies. They would eventually eat or kill them anyway without protection they could then be removed and new ones planted on the boundaries slow time and naturalish regeneration

 

[Catbird]

It's worth checking whether the orchard has any environmental protection, as orchards are a nationally rare habitat which often get grubbed out for other uses. The older it is, the more ecologically valuable it is. Your local authority will know.
Depending on the level of protection, you might not be able to take the trees out. Definitely worth looking at before you buy!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Horses (well ponies,ask me how I know lol) will eat apple trees. whole trees. Personally I would keep, fence off for the most part and find someone who will buy the crop off you. While I love an old orchard (hey, keep some chickens in it and predator proof it-I would kill for that set up) lots of apples can form a sort of torture whereby you cant possibly use them all but you feel obliged to try. I am too soft to kill trees, I cried when our old willow blew down last winter.

And yes, you might not be allowed to fell.

 

[Marigold4]

Problem is, down my way, hundreds of thousands of houses have been built. Some on livery yards that are now closed; some on private grazing. Land is at a real premium. I wouldn't want to fell an orchard, but it was only planted 15 years ago, definitely not a protected orchard. Just toying with ideas no definite plan to do this. Need 3 acres min. and land for sale round here is very rare.

 

[Gloi]

Our ponies grazed in an orchard and it was good shelter for them though they did kill some of the trees. Went in with the barrow to collect the apples before they pigged out on them but they weren't very productive being very old trees.

 

[Polos Mum]

If you have to I would let the horses eat the trees and kill them over time. Digging them out will be very disruptive for the ground and the soil structure / grass would take a long time to recover.

I had 12 acres which I bought as a barley crop, read every book and seeded and cared for it with no expense spared. Even 4 years later it was really fragile and wouldn't support four horses. I now keep the same routine / horses on less than 5 acres (which has been grazing for 100+ year). I would do everything you can to not disturb the ground.

The horses will eat the bark, kill the tree and it will rot over time without leaving large areas of unstable ground.

 

[Keith_Beef]

You can’t dig out stump without a digger the easiest way is to use a stump grinder this is expensive .

OH had an uncle who bought a small patch planted as an orchard and cleared it to have a house built.

He built a kind of frame out of steel beams and put a manual chain winch at the top.

After cutting each trunk about a foot above the ground and digging around to cut the roots, he used the frame and winch to pull out the trunk.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I would graze the orchard, let the horses do their worst with the trees and just keep them away when apples are on the ground. You can cut down the amount of apples by pruning when in flower if you want. Mine used to graze a little paddock that had a huge old pear tree in it. It always had 100's of tiny pears that I had to rake up in the autumn but no real problem.

 

[flying_high]

Stumps can be lethal for horses .
They are safer with the trees .

interested to understand why stumps can be lethal for horses?

 

[canteron]

Fence round a few trees (shade interest etc). The horses will strip the bark, eat the leaves and kill the remaining ones anyway - but you may well find a local woodsman who will chop the trees down / grind the stumps for not a lot on the basis the wood will have a value.

 

[PurBee]

You have the perfect opportunity with that orchard to make some serious money that could help pay for a chunk of the 3 acres.

You say theyre established trees? How many? What size are they? On an acre possibly 40-50?

As others have said, do check if there’s any restrictions on that land - the trees might be tied-into a 10yr grant system or something.

If its completely freehold you could sell the entire orchard to an existing orchard, business.
Mature trees cost hundreds each!! Theres many people who would love a mature apple tree! If i was near you id be willing to buy them for 10k+ to have an ‘instant orchard’ which would give me an income from the apples.

There’s no need to chop them and kill them off, alive they can be transported and replanted, you make a good chunk of money as a bonus!

You’d have to wait for winter dormancy to work on the trees, prune and remove them when the trees are dormant in winter - and if youre not knowledgeable about fruit tree pruning, have a contractor come in to vigorously prune them so the head of the trees is vastly reduced, easier to transport. A 6 tonne digger will have the strength to haul out the main roots of apple trees...a 3 ton will probably dtruggle.
I had to use an 8 tonne digger to remove 20yr old spruce roots 1 metre across, and even that machine struggled with those roots half rotten.
Advertise the orchard trees before doing the job of hauling them out. Basically have buyers lined-up so that they can re-plant in the spring straight after them being removed.

It would be easier to have 1 buyer as then a haulage truck could be booked to have the trees transported for 1/2k to the new place.

After removal of the trees the grass/ground will be wrecked by the digger but no worries - have a truck deliver topsoil, with digger still on hand. Hire a dumper truck and fill in the holes and have the digger track over the fresh holes of soil to compact soil into the holes. If this work is done jan/feb - in march you can re-seed the worst affected areas with grass seed. By september the growth would be good to graze.

Horses like to eat apple trees. Im not sire if theyre good for them to eat though - mine were grazing in a neighbours field once and although the apple trees were protected with mesh, my horses ate the leaves and stems of what they could reach! So its a risk to graze them in an orchard aside from them gorging on apples, theyd also gorge on the leaves and fine branches, which could cause health issues.

If you wanted to keep the orchard and sell apples, or fresh apple juice - a local apple farm make money that way from their trees - youd have to mesh the trees to stop the horses feeding on them. So it could be used for grazing and apple production, a nice combo - as apple trees hate grass growing at their roots and needs to be kept very trim - but you would have the work to mesh all the trees adequately so wind/horses can tear at it. Id use a strong poly fencing mesh.

Whether you decide to keep the orchard or not, youd have a large job on your hands either way - but if done right - either options could yield you an income from the sale of the trees or sale of the apples, and the trees live, and your horses can graze.

I really wish i was close to you - id love an instant orchard! ? (you might find the person willing to buy all the trees is willing to organise the machinery to remove them and do the whole job themselves so they keep the roots as intact as possible - id consider that if buying from you)
So put the feelers out through advertising everywhere - ebay/facebook etc to see if you can drum up interest to buy them - or contact local organic farm box schemes, as many of them are always expanding and some may be interested in an instant orchard.

If you knew the types of apples that grow that would be a plus - can you find out from the seller of the land?

If trees are chopped at ground level and stumps left in - horses running in the pasture can easily damage feet/legs by inadvertently running on one, causing concussion stress of the foot/limb - as the stumps will quickly get covered with grass growth, so the horses wont necessarily see them to avoid them. All trees ive removed in grazing areas i leave a good 50cm/1m stump which the horses easily see, scratch on etc and pretty soon fungus moves in and kills the tree so within 3 years birches/willow - they break off naturally at the ground and the ground stump is pulpy soft wood. Fungus is excellent for digesting into the depths of a stump left sticking up.

 

[Marigold4]

Why not just thin the trees? Less work and the grass will naturally grow back over quite quickly. We used our orchard (12 trees maybe) as a restricted grazing paddock. My mare twice chose to have her foals out there even though she had 24/24 access to a good sized foaling box.
We rotated our paddocks and did not allow access to the orchard if the fruit was nearing maturity, nor did we plan to use it over winter as it was at the bottom of a slope.
Stumps cut down to ground level are dangerous as Goldenstar says but left at 50cm high until they are removed will be visible to the horses.[/QUOTE

Good point. They weren't necessarily planted because the owners like apples. Also you should look at the deeds for the classification of the land and any need to apply for change of use.

And this-

Field is well-draining chalk and we know the current owners so definitely planted just as fruit tree

 

[windand rain]

Sounds like a good spot for a track or at least the start of one

 

[Marigold4]

You have the perfect opportunity with that orchard to make some serious money that could help pay for a chunk of the 3 acres.

You say theyre established trees? How many? What size are they? On an acre possibly 40-50?

As others have said, do check if there’s any restrictions on that land - the trees might be tied-into a 10yr grant system or something.

If its completely freehold you could sell the entire orchard to an existing orchard, business.
Mature trees cost hundreds each!! Theres many people who would love a mature apple tree! If i was near you id be willing to buy them for 10k+ to have an ‘instant orchard’ which would give me an income from the apples.

There’s no need to chop them and kill them off, alive they can be transported and replanted, you make a good chunk of money as a bonus!

You’d have to wait for winter dormancy to work on the trees, prune and remove them when the trees are dormant in winter - and if youre not knowledgeable about fruit tree pruning, have a contractor come in to vigorously prune them so the head of the trees is vastly reduced, easier to transport. A 6 tonne digger will have the strength to haul out the main roots of apple trees...a 3 ton will probably dtruggle.
I had to use an 8 tonne digger to remove 20yr old spruce roots 1 metre across, and even that machine struggled with those roots half rotten.
Advertise the orchard trees before doing the job of hauling them out. Basically have buyers lined-up so that they can re-plant in the spring straight after them being removed.

It would be easier to have 1 buyer as then a haulage truck could be booked to have the trees transported for 1/2k to the new place.

After removal of the trees the grass/ground will be wrecked by the digger but no worries - have a truck deliver topsoil, with digger still on hand. Hire a dumper truck and fill in the holes and have the digger track over the fresh holes of soil to compact soil into the holes. If this work is done jan/feb - in march you can re-seed the worst affected areas with grass seed. By september the growth would be good to graze.

Horses like to eat apple trees. Im not sire if theyre good for them to eat though - mine were grazing in a neighbours field once and although the apple trees were protected with mesh, my horses ate the leaves and stems of what they could reach! So its a risk to graze them in an orchard aside from them gorging on apples, theyd also gorge on the leaves and fine branches, which could cause health issues.

If you wanted to keep the orchard and sell apples, or fresh apple juice - a local apple farm make money that way from their trees - youd have to mesh the trees to stop the horses feeding on them. So it could be used for grazing and apple production, a nice combo - as apple trees hate grass growing at their roots and needs to be kept very trim - but you would have the work to mesh all the trees adequately so wind/horses can tear at it. Id use a strong poly fencing mesh.

Whether you decide to keep the orchard or not, youd have a large job on your hands either way - but if done right - either options could yield you an income from the sale of the trees or sale of the apples, and the trees live, and your horses can graze.

I really wish i was close to you - id love an instant orchard! ? (you might find the person willing to buy all the trees is willing to organise the machinery to remove them and do the whole job themselves so they keep the roots as intact as possible - id consider that if buying from you)
So put the feelers out through advertising everywhere - ebay/facebook etc to see if you can drum up interest to buy them - or contact local organic farm box schemes, as many of them are always expanding and some may be interested in an instant orchard.

If you knew the types of apples that grow that would be a plus - can you find out from the seller of the land?

If trees are chopped at ground level and stumps left in - horses running in the pasture can easily damage feet/legs by inadvertently running on one, causing concussion stress of the foot/limb - as the stumps will quickly get covered with grass growth, so the horses wont necessarily see them to avoid them. All trees ive removed in grazing areas i leave a good 50cm/1m stump which the horses easily see, scratch on etc and pretty soon fungus moves in and kills the tree so within 3 years birches/willow - they break off naturally at the ground and the ground stump is pulpy soft wood. Fungus is excellent for digesting into the depths of a stump left sticking up.

What a fantastic reply. Thanks so much for this! I have copied across to my land buying folder in case I need it. Lots of brilliant ideas here to save the trees. We actually did do this once - we planted a few apple trees and changed our mind about how to use that part of the garden so dug the up and gave them to next door neighbours. All survived but they were young trees.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply in this amount of detail. Much appreciated!

 

[chaps89]

If you currently rent and it’s working for you/would work long term, might another approach be to approach your current landlord to see if they’d sell?

ETA - apologies, realise this isn’t what you asked!

 

[Palindrome]

interested to understand why stumps can be lethal for horses?

My guess is because they are a hazard, wood is slippery when wet and a stump makes the ground uneven a bit like large stones.