Turning out in the arena

LaurenBay said:
I would actually consider it rude. At shows you are very unlikely to come across lose Horses having a hooney right next door to you. Are your field shut for turnout?
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The post on facebook the other week suggested there were several venues this was an issue at.
 
LaurenBay said:
I would actually consider it rude. At shows you are very unlikely to come across lose Horses having a hooney right next door to you. Are your field shut for turnout?
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Have been to shows, BD, BE and BS(BSJA) where people have fallen off and the Horse hoons off to lorrypark etc. It happens a lot and at all levels. It is life horses are not machines so will react to different stimuli, how an individual deals with it is their problem.
 
ester said:
I'm confused? are you saying that there is control over a school and not a field if both are used for turnout?

The field is the norm for turn-out. I think in the OPs circumstances the horses were deliberately chucked in for a hoon around.
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Velcrobum said:
Have been to shows, BD, BE and BS(BSJA) where people have fallen off and the Horse hoons off to lorrypark etc. It happens a lot and at all levels. It is life horses are not machines so will react to different stimuli, how an individual deals with it is their problem.
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Therefore as you’ve evidenced anecdotally it is potentially dangerous and completely avoidable in the OPs circumstances.
 
Ah that's why I'm confused, on a lot of yards Ive been on with two arenas the outdoor has been used for turnout for most of the winter and the indoor for riding.
 
ester said:
Ah that's why I'm confused, on a lot of yards Ive been on with two arenas the outdoor has been used for turnout for most of the winter and the indoor for riding.
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I’ve never been on a yard where the school has been used for regular daily turn-out.

I was at a large yard with 4 arenas none ever used for regular turn-out. Occasionally a horse that’s been on box rest might go out to kick up its heels for the first time

Most YO’s I know would go bonkers if they saw some horse hooning around gouging down to the liner in the arena and digging holes to roll in. We’re not allowed to loose school at all let alone turn out in ours.

.
 
That's why our experiences differ. I know yards like you describe too but just never considered it a biggy to have horses turned out next to me as it is normal, as have always had either a field or other arena used for turnout next to me. (and those arenas used for turnout were often on their last legs a bit)

As the OP didn't say that turnout wasn't allowed in the outdoor arena then I presumed the set up to be one more like what I have described rather than with a YO likely to go nuts at someone turning out, and if it's allowed I think you just deal with it/move yards if it is a big issue.
 
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Rowreach said:
I wonder what the collective response to this thread would have been if the OP had been bucked off and ended up in hospital as a result of this.
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Mine would have been - that's life, with horses, in a livery yard or any other place like a show ground or training centre where you can't control what other people do.
 
ycbm said:
Mine would have been - that's life, with horses, in a livery yard or any other place like a show ground or training centre where you can't control what other people do.
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I don't know many horses that don't react to that sort of thing to a greater or lesser degree.

Some risks are unavoidable some are not. I wouldn't as a novice choose a venue with the potential hor horses going ballistic in the field next door. We do have venues like that and people either get off of fall off when it happens.

At my home yard I'd expect people to think about others as I do them it's called being a nice thoughtful person thinking about how your actions impact others.
 
I agree that unless it's routine on that yard, they should have warned her.

Here at home, I often turn the others out when I am riding on the arena, and I'm glad if one kicks off in the field, as practice for when it so often happens at events. There's a warm up arena at a local venue where the horse in the field along the long side will try to bite passers by and often has a buck. At another the warm up is right alongside the dressage arena, no fence, and at a third there are two arenas which are bordered on both sides by other arenas. There's always stuff kicking of somewhere!
 
Where I ride, there is an arena that's double the size of a standard dressage arena, and an indoor manège that is the size of a standard dressage arena, with big high double doors that are always closed when anybody is riding in there. The manège doors open almost right at the south-south-east corner of the arena.

You can see it on Google maps here.

There is a tradition that the doors are left open if nobody is in there, and that if the doors are closed, you assume somebody is in there.

In such a case, you don't turn out a horse in the arena without warning the person in the manège, and giving that person the chance to leave or to perhaps ask for ten minutes respite before turning out.

The same, when turning out into the manège when somebody is in the arena. Warn, and give people the chance to negotiate a pause.
 
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Keith_Beef said:
Where I ride, there is an arena that's double the size of a standard dressage arena, and an indoor manège that is the size of a standard dressage arena, with big high double doors that are always closed when anybody is riding in there. The manège doors open almost right at the south-south-east corner of the arena.

You can see it on Google maps here.

There is a tradition that the doors are left open if nobody is in there, and that if the doors are closed, you assume somebody is in there.

In such a case, you don't turn out a horse in the arena without warning the person in the manège, and giving that person the chance to leave or to perhaps ask for ten minutes respite before turning out.

The same, when turning out into the manège when somebody is in the arena. Warn, and give people the chance to negotiate a pause.
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Which sounds like good manners and common sense to me.

It's one thing choosing to have loose horses out next to where you ride, as ycbm says, and presumably those are turned out and settled before you actually get on your horse so they are less likely to loon about.

It's another if you expect horses to be turned out while you are riding. Not something I would recommend or advocate, for safety reasons, but forewarned is forearmed.

Quite another thing for it to happen when it is not expected.

I'm fairly sure that if a claim resulted from this sort of action, the yard management might find itself in a bit of bother.
 
I wonder if we are all getting very over-zealous on H&S when it come to horses. I do understand where everyone is coming from and can see both sides of the story... after all no-one wants an accident.

Horses can be trained though, to cope with extraneous stimulus and it does pay to get them used to things. Having a spooky horse myself, I quite understand the dangers but I know that with exposure, comes confidence and that in turn makes the whole experience safer for all. I've also had bombproof horses and they can come with that personality but it does need some work too. Some need more than others.

Lets not forget that horses in history were the chosen vehicles and weapons for mankind and had to be trained to be able to become less and less responsive to stimuli - they learn to cope and be trusted despite being flight animals. Towing barges, standing in a battle ground, and even today learning to walk calmly while others race at a small racecourse. Even in the wild, they do not run from every rustle in the bush, that would waste a lot of energy and risks injury and loss of foals, they learn to distinguish between sounds, smells etc as is observed by the guardians of wild herds in US e.g. Horses of South Dakota, Cloud the Stallion etc. Very interesting to follow the blogs.

All I'm saying is that, if you can't control the situation, it may actually be an advantage in the end depending on how you approach the issue. If you do have loose horses having a kick about while you school, take the opportunity to practise obedience e.g. standing still or walking a circle and treat it as training exercise and reward the horse for doing simple things like being still and listening to you. The more you do it, the more "normal' something becomes.

Our nemesis was the tractor trundling past the schooling paddock. So I did the above and now we don't have an issue, we can school as normal and the tractor can do what it wants.
 
The only time I've had a problem with a horse turned out next to an arena I was riding in, it was an aggressive mare which would kick out at my horse through the fence, and nearly caught my head in a particularly athletic moment (I didn't realise how close it was until I saw a video of it). I didn't complain about horses being turned out next to the arena, I just suggested that horse was unsuitable for that field...

It's part of life - almost every arena I've ever had access to backs onto fields, turnout pens or other arenas sometimes used for turnout. It's the responsibility of the rider to judge if their horse is ready for the change in circumstances, or to re-evaluate their plans - which might be frustrating, certainly, but just life, same as if it were a change in the weather or similar. If it were a small child on the pony, I would expect their supervising adult to predict how the pony would react and make a sensible decision to keep the child safe.
 
Sussexbythesea said:
ester said:
I'm confused? are you saying that there is control over a school and not a field if both are used for turnout?

The field is the norm for turn-out. I think in the OPs circumstances the horses were deliberately chucked in for a hoon around.
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But I think we have to assume that this was allowed on the yard in question, since the OP has made no mention of it not being. If there are no rules saying that horses can't be turned out when someone is riding, then unfortunately that is just life. If there ARE rules, and this person has broken them, the OP should complain to the YO. I wonder if the yard in question currently has its fields closed due to wet/ rutted ground.
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ester said:
That's why our experiences differ. I know yards like you describe too but just never considered it a biggy to have horses turned out next to me as it is normal, as have always had either a field or other arena used for turnout next to me. (and those arenas used for turnout were often on their last legs a bit)

As the OP didn't say that turnout wasn't allowed in the outdoor arena then I presumed the set up to be one more like what I have described rather than with a YO likely to go nuts at someone turning out, and if it's allowed I think you just deal with it/move yards if it is a big issue.
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Our yard allows turn out/free schooling in the arenas when the ground is too wet/poached/rutted & frozen for field turnout. You need to stay with your horse to immediately remove poos. The surfaces cope fine. I am very glad of it as otherwise they would have no turn out at all sometimes. I ride pretty much every day anyway but I like them to have a leg stretch and roll and play without it being work. As others have said, if it's allowed then you just need to deal with it. If is not allowed then obviously it us unacceptable and you should complain to both the owner and the YO.
 
Keith_Beef said:
That which does not kill me makes me stronger?
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Or choose your moments better! I was once bringing a very spooky rescue pony back into work. It was going swimmingly 1 early morning till a load of pony camp kids arrived and ran across the yard shrieking. Pony went nuts and galloped full speed round the arena a few times. It was my fault for losing track of time and not being off before the RS opened - especially on a pony camp week. BUT the kids on camp ended up being brilliant. They saw what had happened and were mortified. I told them not to worry but asked them to help me help the pony. So after that they acted as spook busters all week in a controlled way - ending the week being able to hang over the arena fence waving jackets about and making lots of noise.

If I had a young or hot horse I would ask people to let me know when they were turning out so I could get off if I really felt the horse was not ready but I would be clear in my own mind that this was a significant training need. I think overprotecting horses /over controlling environments is not a great idea as there are too many uncontrollables out there.

My kids were at an arena eventing clinic recently and a horse in another class got loose and galloped full speed past Max and Ginny. They were brilliant. If they were never exposed to hooning horses while expected to work it could have ended badly. Ginny is only 5 but she has to deal with turn out, the farm dogs running right across her path while schooling etc and she has learned very quickly not to worry which I think makes her far safer in general.
 
As a rather nervy rider on a horse that could be reactive around other horses, I was given a great piece of advice by Adam Kemp. That was to learn to control my horse rather than to try to control everything else around me. Still working on it but he was spot on!
 
Keith_Beef said:
That which does not kill me makes me stronger?
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I think we're in a minority here KB.

I'm just a tad disappointed that so many of you would show so little consideration to someone already riding in an arena right beside where you are letting your horse loon about. To me it would be simple good manners to either ask first if she minds, or wait a few minutes till she's finished.
 
oldie48 said:
As a rather nervy rider on a horse that could be reactive around other horses, I was given a great piece of advice by Adam Kemp. That was to learn to control my horse rather than to try to control everything else around me. Still working on it but he was spot on!
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Exactly!
 
Rowreach said:
I'm just a tad disappointed that so many of you would show so little consideration to someone already riding in an arena right beside where you are letting your horse loon about. To me it would be simple good manners to either ask first if she minds, or wait a few minutes till she's finished.
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I'm with you Rowreach. It's only polite just to have a quick word with the rider first.

To those who reckon the turner outer did nothing wrong, as we all need to control our own horses at all times, what would you say to the following scenario? Two riders are hacking side by side down a bridleway, and another rider approaches. This rider canters in between the two horses, one of whom is a baby, and calls out at the chaos behind her 'Learn to ride ladies, learn to ride...'.
 
I really do think it depends on what 'normal' is for you.
On the yards I have been on where arena turnout is permitted it is deemed a normal occurrence that would be occurring regularly/people had time slots for turnout and so noone would ask (no children), especially as we are talking an indoor and outdoor arena. If that isn't the set up/it isn't permitted on the OPs yard then that puts a different slant on it but she hasn't said that.
 
Rowreach said:
I think we're in a minority here KB.

I'm just a tad disappointed that so many of you would show so little consideration to someone already riding in an arena right beside where you are letting your horse loon about. To me it would be simple good manners to either ask first if she minds, or wait a few minutes till she's finished.
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Exactly my thoughts Rowreach as I’ve said above.

We do as it happens have two paddocks next to our school partially obscured by a hedge. One houses a killer Shetland which many have nervous break downs over. If anyone turns out in the other paddock next to the school they always warn anyone in the arena that a horse may suddenly gallop down the hedge line or they wait a few minutes if it is convenient. Manners cost nothing.
 
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