Turnout for the very expensive horse...

A friend who trains reining horses - including some very valuable stallions - uses pens made of two strands of wide electric tape and wooden posts. They're about a quarter of an acre - enough to let the horses kick up their heels.
There's about 6ft between each pen so the horses have company but can't touch each other - works very well, the horses are very chilled, and as the pens are next to the arena, those being worked soon get used to having other horses around them, whether they are having a little whizz, rolling or just grazing quietly!
 
I have a lovely photo of 3 dams of top TB sires grazing happily together in a field at a v.prestigious TB stud....we reckoned there was easily in excess of £10 million horseflesh between the three mares...so yes, they do go out! As do the stallions
 
I think horses still should go out, the horse itself doesn't know its expensive and IMO for its mental wellbeing, it really ought to have time outside. It takes away everything natural otherwise.

I've always though a pen system like a cattery would be good! At our local cattery, they have inside space and a "run" outside. I've always thought this could be done on a big scale - ie. stable with the door left open into a penned area (which is maybe 4 times bigger than a stable? - enough for them to maybe trot about but not gallop etc.).
 
It's a sad fact of life when money outweighs welfare. How come horses fair so badly compared to other animals? Probably because of their genuine and willing nature - they want to please us and do what we ask... and don't we take advantage of that.

I was watching the news this week about the lions rescued from a Romanian zoo and relocated to a Yorkshire wildlife park. £150,000 was raised to rescue them from their cramped conditions - these cramped conditions were 15 foot by 12 foot concrete cages, which the lions rarely left. So why are these conditions so repellent to us, enough for so much money to be raised, and yet it's considered perfectly fine for a large, herd dwelling, incredibly social creature who would cover 20 to 30 miles a day in the wild to be kept in 12x12 boxes (perhaps bigger, perhaps smaller) for 23/22 hours a day?

We wouldn't keep lions like that - so why is it okay for the horse?

 
I think it's terribly sad if horses aren't able to be just horses at least for some part of the day, I understand them being worth a lot of money but it just doesn't seem right, they are meant to be herd animals running free in an ideal world, seems a shame for them to be stuck in a box or not able to mix with others...
 
I'm probably seeing this too black-and-white, but here's my $0.02...

I find it a bit strange that horses in Germany are apparently still allowed to be kept in 23/24 hours, given (IIRC) the clause in the law about "artgerechte Haltung" (management according to what is appropriate to the species of animal). I suppose that does leave a giant interpretative loophole!

All considerations of money aside, I believe I'm morally obliged to provide my horse with everything he needs for his physical and mental well-being, and I believe that this requires as much turnout as possible. If I were rich enough to buy a horse for X million pounds, but not rich enough to write off the X million pounds if the horse got hurt accidentally while turned out, then I would not consider myself rich enough to afford that particular horse.

If I were a professional, I think I would insist on being allowed to turn out, and would want to protect my a$$ with a fat contract. This would probably mean that I wouldn't be able to survive as a business, so it's probably good that I'm not a professional!
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I can see the argument that, if the horse seems happy, keeping it in is no more unnatural, really, than sitting on it in the first place. Thus, since I'm not prepared to give up sitting on horses, I have to accept the possibility that at least some horses can become accustomed to, and eventually prefer, being kept in a way so competely unnatural to the species. However, my own conscience would definitely draw the line at keeping the horse in, for money's sake.
 
Here, here . . . . . very well said
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I'm no bunny-hugger but anyone who keep's their horses in 24/7 should be ASHAMED of themselves and I don't care how much the horse's are worth

Pehaps these people should try being left isolated in their bedroom hour after hour, week after week
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The only reason they get away with it it because the horse is such a placid & submissive creature
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This is a subject I feel very strongly about and is 'out and out' animal cruelty.
 
I can see the point here but I do think that when you run a business involving multimillion pound animals being entrusted to you on loan for a few weeks and you neither own them nor can afford to replace them... It's all well and good saying it's cruel to keep them in but it's a pretty different view point when your job and livelihood comes from that.

I think I'll reserve my verdict of cruelty for once I've spent years trying to make a living from horses...

I should also point out that the discussion we were having, mostly consisted of trying to think of ways that the poor unfortunate racehorses could safely have turnout time!!!!
 
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I can see the point here but I do think that when you run a business involving multimillion pound animals being entrusted to you on loan for a few weeks and you neither own them nor can afford to replace them... It's all well and good saying it's cruel to keep them in but it's a pretty different view point when your job and livelihood comes from that.

I think I'll reserve my verdict of cruelty for once I've spent years trying to make a living from horses...



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I am sorry, but I totally agree with this. I am also 100% sure that when you see horses like Balagur on TV, you don't sit there thinking 'oh no the poor pony, that rider is so cruel because she doesn't turn him out' but, rather, you are in awe at how happy, relaxed he is, how much trust he has in his rider, and how delighted he is to perform his job -- AT 18!!

Also, I think it's easy to forget how privileged you are in the UK in terms of weather. You say it's natural for the horse to graze all year round, but the fact is that, say, in Southern Germany (when the temperature goes down to -30/-35 virtually every night throughout the winter) the fields are covered in thick, frozen snow from November to late February, so it's physically impossible to turn the horses out (until someone invents heated paddocks...). In the same way, in Southern Europe the summers are so hot that there is NO grass at all (again, unless you water the paddocks every night, but not everybody can afford that and in Italy most years it's illegal to 'waste' water in the hotter months) so the paddocks are just pure sand, no grass -- which makes it impossible for the horse to 'graze' in the real sense of the term.
 
Well said FB. Also , these horses are being exercised - ridden, as well as led out to graze. They aren't shut in all the time.
Personally, I agree with those who advocate turnout however valuable the animal, though. If they go out daily, they're far less likely to go bananas.
 
I regularly drive right through the middle of a large and prestigeous TB stub, there are usually small herds grazing peacefully and at this time of year on the days we get good weather there are mares and foals too. Many of these mares have a foal potentially worth millions at foot and are often in foal to top stallions as well.

The paddocks are immaculate and fenced with Tornado netting with a top rail.
 
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I am sorry, but I totally agree with this. I am also 100% sure that when you see horses like Balagur on TV, you don't sit there thinking 'oh no the poor pony, that rider is so cruel because she doesn't turn him out' but, rather, you are in awe at how happy, relaxed he is, how much trust he has in his rider, and how delighted he is to perform his job -- AT 18!!

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and if you turned him out, you'd have to spend HOURS getting him dazzling white again....
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Seriously, well said FB. You've hit the nail here.
 
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I am sorry, but I totally agree with this. I am also 100% sure that when you see horses like Balagur on TV, you don't sit there thinking 'oh no the poor pony, that rider is so cruel because she doesn't turn him out' but, rather, you are in awe at how happy, relaxed he is, how much trust he has in his rider, and how delighted he is to perform his job -- AT 18!!

Also, I think it's easy to forget how privileged you are in the UK in terms of weather. You say it's natural for the horse to graze all year round, but the fact is that, say, in Southern Germany (when the temperature goes down to -30/-35 virtually every night throughout the winter) the fields are covered in thick, frozen snow from November to late February, so it's physically impossible to turn the horses out (until someone invents heated paddocks...). In the same way, in Southern Europe the summers are so hot that there is NO grass at all (again, unless you water the paddocks every night, but not everybody can afford that and in Italy most years it's illegal to 'waste' water in the hotter months) so the paddocks are just pure sand, no grass -- which makes it impossible for the horse to 'graze' in the real sense of the term.

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Not sure how the wild mustangs in the US survive then... temperatures get down to -40 in the winter and +40 in the summer. Having no 'grass' in the traditional sense is absolutely no reason not to turn out. Lets not disguise this as anything else but a financial thing. I'm not naive - I do understand people have to make a living but it's the horse that gets the short straw.

Another animal welfare issue on the news this morning. Did you see the size of the tank that the killer whale at Seaworld lives in? Of course the whale will get the blame but how fair is it to keep such a large intelligent animal in conditions like that just to perform for the paying public?
 
I totally agree with turnout as much as possible (within reason, given ground conditions, workload etc). My own horse (worth nothing, 29 year old, mostly retired) goes out for as long as possible every day.

But, I have been in the exact situation the OP describes. I worked on a yard, about 11 years ago, which would take in short term liveries. They were mostly rehab cases from the vets who were between box rest and turnout, and needed to go on the horsewalker 2-3 times a day.

However, we did have 2 horses in, for a couple of weeks, for a rest after a long period of competing, and a long journey. They were dressage horses from Holland, on the long list for the Olympic team, who were competing at Hickstead the following month. They were worth £1m and £1.5m each. They were only with us short term, they were not used to daily turnout, but they were used to being on a horsewalker.

Trust me, they didn't go out. And it was bloody terrifying just having them on the walker, in case they injured themselves. But they left our care safe and sound, their owners/riders were happy, and they'd experienced nothing different from what they were used to (except another trip on the walker instead of being ridden in the school).

I've also worked with SJers worth £250k each, and polo ponies worth £50k each. All went out regularly - the SJers a couple of times a week, individually, the polo ponies were out at night in their group. All were fine.

From an owners perspective, regardless of the monetary value of my horse, I would want it turned out for a minimum of 1/2 a day every day. From a grooms/carers perspective, I just want to keep the damned things safe, so I do what the owner wants me to do.
 
I would love to think that no matter how expensive my horse, it would get daily turnout. However, my horse is my luxury, not my livelihood, and I think it is impossible to judge from where I am standing! (And she is worth about 50p, so not really comparable!).
 
I worked for a dressage rider and her Grand prix horse was turned out individually but beside others, and was always last one out and first one in. We had to watch the horses while they were out and if the 'ran about too much' bring them in again, starting with the 'special' one...
 
Yep - they're endurance racing arabs admittedly not worth hundreds of thousands of pounds in cold hard cash but it takes years to get a horse fit enough to compete at advanced level. I sympathise with people who have to make a living - if the horse doesn't belong to you then you have to comply with what the owner wants - doesn't make it fair on the horse though.
 
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