Turtle Top/Turtle Tactio - anyone have any experience of these?

Blurr said:
As the title, also why did you pick that mouth piece and did it have the desired result?
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Bought one at great expense as the kind of horse it was aimed at is exactly the type mine is. She absolutely hated it and was the worst bit I have ever ridden her in!! However, I do like the science and research behind it and I wouldn't not use one again but wouldn't pay full price for it. I rate NS overall so was gutted it didn't work. I did wonder of the joint pinched her tongue somehow but I suspect that it was more her being an awkward stubborn Highland moo (pretty much normal for her..!)
 
I have a standard loose ring turtle top for my gelding and he seems to go nicely in it (well, as nicely as he can go!). My instructor recommended it and I trialed it from the bit bank before buying it.
 
Thanks for replying. The bit bank is a good suggestion. My pony doesn't like a snaffle or the French link (regular bog standard French link) I've tried. He resists and raises his head as if the action of the bit is uncomfortable so I'm looking at other options with a small lozenge rather than the current large flat link.

Any other suggestions for what mouthpiece to try would be very welcome. He's at the start of his training so I'm looking for a softer action.
 
Blurr said:
Thanks for replying. The bit bank is a good suggestion. My pony doesn't like a snaffle or the French link (regular bog standard French link) I've tried. He resists and raises his head as if the action of the bit is uncomfortable so I'm looking at other options with a small lozenge rather than the current large flat link.

Any other suggestions for what mouthpiece to try would be very welcome. He's at the start of his training so I'm looking for a softer action.
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Shires do a loose ring lozenge, mine go nice in it, though one of mine has suddenly become funny in the mouth so will be getting it looked at again.
 
How about a Mullen mouth? Maybe a soft, flexible one like Beris.
I really rate my mullen mouth hanging cheek Myler as it's the only bit my horse has gone nicely in - in jointed bits she was always trying to hide behind the contact.
 
My lad didn't like the turtle top at all. It was almost as if it was too much for him and he just backed away from it completely. Different horses like different things though so it's not to say it won't work for yours.

Reading what you said though my first instinct was that the NS team up might be a nice kind on to try on him. Apparently the lozenge is set at a different angle and this works well for some reason. If not then I think I would go along with DirectorFury in suggesting a either mullen mouth type arrangement. It all depends on your horse's mouth and way of going though so deffo try the bit bank before buying outright!
 
Blurr said:
Thanks for replying. The bit bank is a good suggestion. My pony doesn't like a snaffle or the French link (regular bog standard French link) I've tried. He resists and raises his head as if the action of the bit is uncomfortable so I'm looking at other options with a small lozenge rather than the current large flat link.

Any other suggestions for what mouthpiece to try would be very welcome. He's at the start of his training so I'm looking for a softer action.
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Sounds similar to mine - he's very happy with his Eldonian D ring snaffle, it has a nice small lozenge and wasn't too expensive.
 
I got one for my gelding on the recommendation of my trainer and he goes really nicely in it. However ever since NS published that research recently I have felt a bit guilty about it as apparently the turtle top exerts quite a bit of poll pressure, even with a loose ring cheek. Can't really get my head around it, but those were the results! Unless that's something you're particularly looking for I would therefore be inclined to suggest trying a different type of lozenge bit first.

My other suggestion if you're looking at NS, Sprenger etc. would be to try second hand, somewhere like Preloved or eBay. You can often pick bits up for the same money it would have cost to hire, and if the bit isn't suitable you can sell it on and get the money back.
 
I have a tactio for my ID x works really well for him, previously in a Mullen mouth rubber loose ring. Unfortunately my horse is between sizes and I really need the next size up to be able to use it in his double bridle, so if anyone is after a medium with I have one for sale!
 
Micropony said:
I got one for my gelding on the recommendation of my trainer and he goes really nicely in it. However ever since NS published that research recently I have felt a bit guilty about it as apparently the turtle top exerts quite a bit of poll pressure, even with a loose ring cheek. Can't really get my head around it, but those were the results!.
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Have you got a link to the research? I ride in one on recommendation of the Bit bank. Horse has a big head, small mouth and low palette. Kept getting her tongue over bits when I backed her but seems pretty settled in this one.
 
Mine hated any form of lozenge or link- we went through all th permutations possible. I then trialled a Bomber happy tongue- a Mullen with a shaped tongue relief. He goes brilliantly in it.
 
SEL said:
Have you got a link to the research? I ride in one on recommendation of the Bit bank. Horse has a big head, small mouth and low palette. Kept getting her tongue over bits when I backed her but seems pretty settled in this one.
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I am on my phone and appear to be incompetent at pasting links, but if you search 'poll pressure guide' on the NS website you should find it. There was a discussion on here about it with a link a little while ago, which started with a post about how this was now evidence that bauchers don't increase poll pressure. Don't know if that might help you track it down.
 
I've got one on trial from the bit bank just now. So far, looking good. My mare has a small mouth and low palette. She was in a team up (and before that a Mullen mouth) but kept lopping her tongue over. Trying the turtle top to see if the issue is when the bit hits her palette.
She's softer and more responsive in it, but still opens her mouth when learning something new - otherwise happy. She just opens her mouth though - I can only tell if I look in the mirror (before she leaned and ran through the bit) - so it is almost like when a child sticks their tongue out when concentrating!
The bit bank is your friend when trying to find something they like.
 
I remain unconvinced that a loose ring anything can exert poll pressure (unless the rings have hooks, an in which case it then changes the bit into a gag). Remember that the poll pressure guide from NS was retracted saying that it was preliminary research only, and wasn't yet ready to be published.
 
Casey76 said:
I remain unconvinced that a loose ring anything can exert poll pressure (unless the rings have hooks, an in which case it then changes the bit into a gag). Remember that the poll pressure guide from NS was retracted saying that it was preliminary research only, and wasn't yet ready to be published.
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Ah I hadn't realised they had retracted it, thanks for that snippet! And I am glad it's not just me who doesn't understand the mechanics of a loose ring being able to exert poll pressure.
 
There is a Poll pressure guide on the Neue Schule website now:

http://nsbits.com/ppguide/

I think this must be a revised one as a lot of the comments on this thread:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?737328-Neue-Schule-Poll-Pressure-Guide

are to do with poll pressure from the Turtle Top - and the footnotes that are being discussed aren't on this link now. Both the Egbutt and loose ring have a zero rating, with no mention of the Turtle top or Turtle Tactio creating more poll pressure. To be honest, I don't see how they would create more poll pressure!
 
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