Tinks81
Well-Known Member
I am so sorry xx hope little Silver does you and her brother proud - you have done amazing xx
Twin Foals
- Thread starter AMH
- Start date
PalominoMare
Well-Known Member
Oh gosh i'm so sorry to hear that, i've been watching this thread and you have really done the best you can. Hope Silver keeps on improving.
AMH
Well-Known Member
Oh goodness me! I'm so sorry! RIP little manI hate to say this, but is there any risk to Silver re.the same problem? It's just that I know that often once a mare has been haemolytic once, she often is again. You've been through enough without me throwing a curve ball like this into the mix, but I had to say it
Please don't apologise! The main reason for starting this thread was to see if anyone else had any ideas or experiences we could draw on, so suggestions are always welcome.
It is a question we asked ourselves. The vet didn't seem concerned and she's showing absolutely no signs - I've just been and taken some video of her having a little canter in the barn (both she an Mum are looking just fine and Mum's coped very well). They weren't identical, so it's likely that they had different blood types, clearly fortunate under the circumstances.
One thing - they both received colostrum which we had in store from two other mares. Neither of those mares have had foals with haemolytic anaemia, but I'm not sure if the antibodies can be present anyway, or if it's specifically a reaction to the foal's blood which causes the antibodies to be produced. What I'm wondering is whether it could have been that colostrum which was the contributary factor. I know that NI (if that was the cause of his haemolytic anaemia) is more prevalent in TBs and one of the donor mares is a TB.
Does anyone have any ideas?
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Could it be the lack of colostrum? Almost certainly not. Colostrum deficiency shows its effects, generally, but not until a few weeks after birth, when the recipient begins to show the effects of inadequate protection.
All those lambs, calves and foals, who receive an inadequate supply, will generally go down with joint ill, or a similar, and horrible complaint.
I'm so sorry that you've lost your foal. I was amazed at your levels of, determination and common sense. I would suggest that there was nothing which you could have done which would have saved your foal. The problems which the poor chap faced, were before birth, and not after.
Go and sleep, you've earned it!!
Alec.
All those lambs, calves and foals, who receive an inadequate supply, will generally go down with joint ill, or a similar, and horrible complaint.
I'm so sorry that you've lost your foal. I was amazed at your levels of, determination and common sense. I would suggest that there was nothing which you could have done which would have saved your foal. The problems which the poor chap faced, were before birth, and not after.
Go and sleep, you've earned it!!
Alec.
RuthnMeg
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about the colt.
All the very best with the filly. x
All the very best with the filly. x
AMH
Well-Known Member
Thank you, Alec. The question I have is more about whether it could have been antibodies in the donor mares' colostrum rather than the mother's, which caused the reaction.
If not, then I definitely wouldn't consider using that stallion again, and the mare has definitely produced a haemolytic response, which is something we need to be aware of in the future.
It's a moot point really, but given that we have a small mare herd and might be in a situation where we have to give donor colostrum in the future, it would be useful to know if there's more chance that using colostrum from certain mares in certain foals could produce that reaction. If we know we have this problem, then in future it might be best to cut straight to plasma transfer rather than running the risk.
Sportznight
Well-Known Member
Glad you didn't mind, esp as I followed this up with a pm. The problem is a reaction to the mother's colostrum.
If we are aware that a mare is likely to be haemolytic, then we muzzle the foal for the first 18 to 24hrs of life, so he/she cannot nurse from the dam (who will be stripped of her colostrum and regularly milked during this time) and the foal bottle fed donor colostrum and then donor milk. Once the gut wall has closed at approx 24hrs of age, then the foal is safe to find the milk bar.
If you are at all concerned, ask your vet to take bloods off the foal, to specifically check the SAA, Fib and WBC. Further plasma may be needed along with a short course of antibiotics. That said, that might not be necessary, but the bloods will tell you.
Once a mare has proven to be haemolytic, she is highly likely to be again. It is very rare for a maiden to be so, though I have known of one. If there is any doubt, then the mare can have an isoerythrolysis blood taken from her about 10 days before her due date (or earlier if she is showing signs of foaling early). If she goes much more than a fortnight past her due date, then a further test will be required if she came up positive.
Murphy88
Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure that foals can get NI from donated colostrum, and if Silver and the colt got different batches then that would explain why she is fine. How many foals had the donor mares had? Mares normally have a normal first foal which 'sensitises' them, and then 2nd foals are NI. It's interesting that the donor mares foals were normal though, if there were antibodies in the donor colostrum you would expect the foals to be NI. If your mare was producing antibodies in her milk, it would be to the stallion's blood type, and while I am no expert on blood typing in horses, I am sure Silver would also be susceptible so I can't see how it can be the result of your mare. You can blood type for sure to find out whether your mare and the stallion were compatible, so you know whether NI might be an issue in future foals. Do you know what made your vet suspicious of NI in the colt?
The above rambling probably doesn't really answer your question, sorry - I would go and do some research because I find foal medicine fascinating, but I'm supposed to be revising for finals and have already spent too much time on foals and not enough time on dogs and cats!
The above rambling probably doesn't really answer your question, sorry - I would go and do some research because I find foal medicine fascinating, but I'm supposed to be revising for finals and have already spent too much time on foals and not enough time on dogs and cats!
vroutledge
Well-Known Member
I used to work on a stud and we used to actually milk the mare when she first has the foal after its had the first drink and then freeze some off the colostrum and label it with the mares name, we had a collection in the freezer from each mare so if any problems occured again there was some colostrum and milk from each mare saved.
Sportznight
Well-Known Member
IME that's never been the case, so if it is, it must be quite rare.
Murphy88
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong, but the reason I say this is because the NICU in the USA where I was in April had a case a few years ago in an orphan foal. It only came up in conversation with the staff there because of a discussion about properly labelling stored colostrum - the orphan foal received colostrum from a pot that wasn't labelled, and the staff did not know which mare it had come from, so they had to throw away the entire stock of frozen colostrum in case they caused more NI in other foals.
I would be really interested to find out more about this, just don't have time to do the research myself at the moment! After finals I will try to send an email to the neonatology professor who taught me, he will know the answer (he knows the answer to everything about foals!)
Sportznight
Well-Known Member
Interesting!! Whereabouts were you? I've done so much foaling on large TB studs in the US and UK and since stayed in the breeding side of the industry and have never come across it from donor colostrum. Though as I said, we did have a maiden in 2001 in KY that was, as they call it, jaundice positive. That foal went on to be a Gr.2 winner and unfortunately finish last in the 2004 KY Derby. (He also had strangles burst out of his stifle... I've not forgotten him lol)
Murphy88
Well-Known Member
That was at U Penn's New Bolton Center, but I've also spent time at Rood and Riddle in KY - like you I would have though it unlikely, and that case is the only one I've heard of so perhaps it was just a strange
anomalie! It would be interesting to know the blood type of this mare, and whether there have been cases before where only one twin is affected?
anomalie! It would be interesting to know the blood type of this mare, and whether there have been cases before where only one twin is affected?
Sportznight
Well-Known Member
Isn't that where Barbaro was? Yes it would be interesting, but difficult to research.
Sorry for going off on a tangent AMH!
Sorry for going off on a tangent AMH!
Murphy88
Well-Known Member
Yes it was where Barbaro was! Sorry for hijacking thread for a bit there AMH, hope little Silver is still doing well this afternoon.
air78
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear you lost Flopsy, after all your efforts.
I hope Silver continues to thrive.
I hope Silver continues to thrive.
sprytzer
Well-Known Member
So sorry to read about Flopsy, but great that mum still has one baby.
Just a question though, as their was one of each sex...does it work in horses the same as cattle, that the filly would be a 'freemartin' or does that not happen in horses?
Sorry if it sounds a silly question but being from farming i just wondered.
Just a question though, as their was one of each sex...does it work in horses the same as cattle, that the filly would be a 'freemartin' or does that not happen in horses?
Sorry if it sounds a silly question but being from farming i just wondered.
misst
Well-Known Member
Just logged in to see how things were. I am so sorry you have lost the little man. You tried so hard. I know nothing about these things but the dedication you have shown seems immense. Best wishes for the little filly and I hope she rewards you in years to come in bucketfulls.x
gingerfilly
Active Member
Just came on for an update.... I am so sorry to hear you lost the colt Thinking of you!! Its so hard loosing a foal, but you tried your best for him and thats what counts, some things just arent meant to be. Hope the Filly is thriving and that the mare is OK too!!
Thinking of you!! Its so hard loosing a foal, but you tried your best for him and thats what counts, some things just arent meant to be. Hope the Filly is thriving and that the mare is OK too!!Revena
Well-Known Member
sorry again for your loss,
I have been thinking about this since I saw your post this morning. I find it strange that this foal has been diagnosed as having NI, your foal had been weak since birth, it has not shown a rapid decline which is when you would start to think it was NI. Did your vet take a blood test from the foal?
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PorkChop
Well-Known Member
Very sad about flopsy - you did everything you could.
I am sure Silver will continue to get stronger - she sounds fab
about flopsy - you did everything you could.I am sure Silver will continue to get stronger - she sounds fab
FayeFriesian
Well-Known Member
Just read this, as not been on much over the last few days. So sorry to hear you lost your colt, you did everything you could.
AmyMay
Situation normal
So sorry to hear of the little ones demise.
Will look forward to the updates of the filly.
Will look forward to the updates of the filly.
millhouse
Well-Known Member
So sorry to read about Flopsy. God bless.
AMH
Well-Known Member
Here's Silver doing her stuff at about lunchtime today...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb4Wd2YH3p8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb4Wd2YH3p8
misst
Well-Known Member
Well as I said before I don't know much about new foals but she looks pretty perky to me. I hope she goes on in strength.
holiday
Well-Known Member
Im so sorry to hear your news, good luck with your little filly she sounds like a great fighter xxxxxx
sarah23
Well-Known Member
I am so sorry to hear the little colt didn't make it. I had been following this thread with my fingers crossed for you.
Little Silver looks a lovely little thing.
Little Silver looks a lovely little thing.
millhouse
Well-Known Member
What a beautiful video. Silver is lovely, and isn't Mum grand?
haycroft
Well-Known Member
im soo sorry you lost your colt,how sad and you done as much as you could for him
thats whatt happen to my friends mare twins, the colt born alive but soon died but the filly doing well and shes coming up for 6 now
i'd read or was told sometime back that the colts are less likely to surviive if its a twin..please correct me if im wrong
silvers is such a sweetie i wish you all the luck with her
reading this thread with interest
thats whatt happen to my friends mare twins, the colt born alive but soon died but the filly doing well and shes coming up for 6 now
i'd read or was told sometime back that the colts are less likely to surviive if its a twin..please correct me if im wrong
silvers is such a sweetie i wish you all the luck with her
reading this thread with interest