Twisting at the Poll - Advice Please!

Annie&Lilly

Annie&Lilly

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What would you recommend?
I'm having issues with my horse twisting at the poll. He has regular Physio every 6/8 weeks. Tack, teeth ect checked regularly. He is very green, so partly evasion, BUT he does carry tension in his poll.
Would I be better having a Physio? Osteo? Or Chiro? Just to check things out? And any exercises that may be helpful?
He is VERY sharp off the leg, and is a bit of a sensitive soul. Ridden mostly in a NS team up, or universal when being particularly unruly!
I should mention he does this on the lunge and under saddle.

Thanks in advance!
 
Mine did this as well as opening mouth and coming behind the vertical. Changed to a Micklem and a Sprenger Dynamic RS eggbutt for all phases and she changed overnight.
 
He is in a grackle at the moment. i tried him in a hunter Noseband with no flash, but he opened his mouth and took off.
Thinking about maybe something with a flash instead?
He came in a swales pelham, wich I thought was awful, and he is much better in his little loose ring bless him, but he's been able to just put his head between his knees and go! Now we are actually able to 'school', I'm getting these niggles!
 
Masterson method is meant to help release tension. Of of the main areas that it concentrates on is the poll. If you have someone near you that does it, might be worth looking at.

I can't comment on how well it works, as although I have a practitioner near me, they are more expensive than a physio, which I'm not paying for!
 
If he was uncomfortable in his mouth and you clamped it shut with a grackle, he has found another way to tell you of his discomfort. I would be ditching the grackle and then looking to his bit and your hands, as well as his education. Does he understand what the pressure means and how to get the release?
 
Teeth would be my first check!

You can massage their poll yourself, most love it. If you feel any lumps or bumps there it could be a muscle knot or an injury, in which case it's worth getting the pros out. If he does it on the lunge I probably would get a physio to have a look, but again it's quite a common evasion tactic, and disappears as suppleness improves.

My boy used to do this and hasn't for about a year. To be honest it's mostly just a case of time and schooling, but he has switched to plastic bits so may be worth a try. He's in a single joint plastic eggbutt, and it's one from a double bridle so it's tiny. (he has a tiny mouth, 4.5 inches) And a single crownpiece with padding, most horses seem to prefer them. Loose rings and anything that goes over the nose (grackle, flash etc) can cause some change in head position in particularly fussy horses, if you lunge him in a headcollar does he still do it?
 
JillA said:
If he was uncomfortable in his mouth and you clamped it shut with a grackle, he has found another way to tell you of his discomfort. I would be ditching the grackle and then looking to his bit and your hands, as well as his education. Does he understand what the pressure means and how to get the release?
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This totally!
 
Plain cavesson noseband, and I'd swap to a fixed ring bit, rather than loose ring, to give him something reassuringly steady to work into. As he's very sharp off the leg and sensitive, he will carry lots of tension until he understands what you want from him - one of the places that it's easy to see that is the poll. You need to be able to put your leg on lightly without him panicking before the tension will ease.
 
Mine did this terribly, especially in the canter on one rein. I had the physio out who said he had tension in his pole too. He had acupuncture and he's not done it since.
 
As stated, he came to me very green, in a very severe swales pelham, wich is where I imagine he learnt this habit, so working backwards from this, without putting all kinds of metal in his mouth while re starting his education.
Teeth have been done, Physio last out 4 weeks ago, so looking at other options.
Very open to trying new Noseband combinations as well as an eggbutt snaffle.
 
I try to make a point of touching and grooming his poll, as much as possible. He isn't particulary 'sensitive' to touch, but it is quite tense.

He does do this on the lunge, on both reins when lunged in a plain cavesson on the Middle/front ring. He is very green and unbalanced, so not sure if he is doing it to balance himself?
 
Head tilting is often the result of not working/pushing through evenly with both hinds. If that is the issue, you can change bits/bridles until the cows come home....... :D
 
Annie&Lilly said:
Any suggestions to an uneven back end? Hill work? Cavalletis?
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Yep! Your suggestions are good to build up the back end of a horse ONCE it is able to use itself properly. In your situation, you need first of all to ascertain WHY the horse is not currently pushing through evenly. This could be due to a myriad of reasons: incorrect training, rider crookedness, saddle twist, dental problems, lameness behind, muscle soreness, one-handedness of rider etc etc etc.

Assuming you are using a GOOD physio (chartered) as opposed to veterinary ACPAT .....sorry, but not all vet physio courses are equal and there appears to be a lot of wide-ranging discrepancy in some of the guys I see from the various colleges.....then I would want them to see the horse under saddle and loose (ideally whilst your instructor is present). Dependent on the opinion of those two professionals I may or may not look for a lameness work up, schooling with a pro, 2nd opinion on saddle or teeth, course of physio and general rehab using the various tools available to such a qualified person.

It is soooooo hard, if not impossible, to advise on something like this without seeing the horse in the flesh.
 
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Thank you, and yes, I aggree. Very difficult to assess whilst on board and over a forum, hence asking for suggestion.
I'm not so naive to think it is all horse, and not rider, so will be looking for assessment from a human Chiro for me too.
Saddle (which was m2m when I bought him) was reflocked in late feb.
Dentist isn't due till sept, but will get them out to cover all bases.
 
Annie&Lilly said:
I'm not so naive to think it is all horse, and not rider, so will be looking for assessment from a human Chiro for me too.
Saddle (which was m2m when I bought him) was reflocked in late feb.
Dentist isn't due till sept, but will get them out to cover all bases.
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Sorry, was not meaning to be rude, just trying to cover all bases! This is the problem with forums like this.....you could be talking to a GP **** rider or someone relatively recently off the lead rein (slight exaggeration!) and not know as so many people seem to be able to talk the talk if you know what I mean.

Good luck with getting him sorted! :)
 
Try a true drop noseband done up properly (ie fairly loosely!) and a full cheek or fixed cheek snaffle with a lozenge centre. I LOVE drops, completely under-used piece of kit. They have very little, if not any face pressure when the horse has his jaw relaxed, and come into play only when they gape. Try massaging his poll and neck with a tennis ball before work to help stimulate blood flow and release tension. Then get training! :D Start back at the basics, rhythm, rhythm, teach the horse to follow a contact, allow plenty of stretching during the sessions (Long and Low). Suppling work, reduce any tension, help the horse to relax and find his own balance. Your boy sounds like he might be lacking these things (not pointing the finger at you! ;) )

I'm absolutely no expert, but this is what I've found to have worked immensely with my horse:

My WB head tilted horribly when I purchased him, after ascertaining it's not stemming from pain, my coach decided it was most likely a training issue, from being worked perhaps too short (he has enlarged glands in his jowl too, poor boy :( ) It's taken a long time, because he was so weak and unbalanced he's needed to build up strength, he had no rhythm which caused tension which resulted in leaning and tightness through the back, making it impossible to push. He was also VERY stiff to the left, and head tilted horribly this way. I speculate that he'd been 'pulled' around in the neck to create 'left bend' rather than bending through his body. He carried an enormous amount of tension on this rein too! Slowly the head tilt is making a disappearance. He's worked in a fairly low outline, with plenty of long and low stretching. If he starts to head tilt (usually on the left, when he gets too much neck bend) I half-halt and ask him to stretch out and stay light, and the head tilt goes away. I do believe a lot of his tilting is due to tension and tightness making it hard for him to stay through. Then I slow the trot, push him forward and up again into the working outline. The biggest thing is not to pull to try and straighten the poll, simply support with the reins and try to correct what's going on with the body. So rebalance the horse, release the tension, then move on again. Good luck! :)
 
One of mine did that as a result of a small piece of wolf tooth left under the gum - It hurt he reacted.'

Often it's a sign the poll is out of alignment and a chiro would be best to sort this out, followed by the physio.
 
You say he does this on the lunge as well as when ridden?

What do you lunge him in?

It sounds to me (assuming there is no underlying physical cause) that he needs to learn to carry himself better. Side reins will only compound the situation. I think before I started to tackle it under saddle I would be wanting to see how well he adjusted to something like the chambon; making sure he was moving forward and swinging through his back. If he was still evading at that point I think I would be asking my vet for a closer look.

There are all sorts of things that could be causing this, and poll injuries are not that uncommon.
 
My horse had been well bitted up before I bought him, and he had a myriad of evasions. I took him back to working in a headcollar on the ground to ensure he paid attention when asked to move his head round, and to soften when asked to do something, so when the pressure was released he did not spring back. Same for halting, turning, whatever. Then I did the same with a bit, from the floor, so as soon as he felt a contact he would drop and relax. Only then did I take it back to riding.

He does everything in a loose ring snaffle now, no noseband, and they did not come much sharper than him!

I did also have physio, chiro and cranio, and they all made a difference, but I would say the biggest difference is when they realise the way to stop the pressure is to relax, not push against.
 
This may sound daft but there are two problems that spring to mind apart from the usual teeth, chiro type problems. he may dislike the taste of the bit, I have one that is allergic to cheap stainless which burns his mouth although it takes a while for it to show up ( old stainless and myler bits are fine for him) or that he has very sensitive mouth and the bit pinches his cheeks , for this acavello gel bit guards have solved this one. mine even dislikes the pressure of an eggbut without the bit guards. teeth checked, no wolf teeth or broken bits just hates side pressure and cheap stainless steel. he also totally refuses a rubber snaffle , went beautifully in it the only time he let me put it in him!
 
Does he do this when lunged to relaxation in side reins that are not tight but just enough to stop him looking in or out? Lungeing will also let you see if he's using his hind legs evenly and will also help relax him before you ride him so he may be quieter to your leg etc.
If he still twists his poll, then go down the chiro/physio route and if he doesn't it may be a problem with unequal contact, rider positioning etc.
But it sounds as if the tension all round needs taking out first, before you can make progress.
 
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