Twitching shoulder/nerve problem

[daydreamer]

hi,

I wondered if anyone had any experiences/ideas/opinions they might be able to share with me. (Before I start ... the horse was seen by an experienced equine vet this Monday). Sorry in advance for such a long post.

My 24 yo TB Barney has been not quite right for a couple of months, just a bit dull and not himself. He had a bit of unlevelness in his left fore which seemed to resolve after a few days off and we put down to foot bruising due to hard ground. I had the physio come to check him about about 3 or 4 weeks ago and she said he had sore/tight back muscles, his pelvis was slightly out, tight intercostals and lats. She gave me lots of exercises to do - front and back leg pulls, pelvis tilts, belly lifts, carrot stretches to the elbow. I was doing the exercises every day and seeing some improvement i those. I did a bit of hacking out - seemed ok, if a little dull still. I rode in the school a couple of times - some initial stiffness then some really nice work. I was long reining and doing pole work in hand too - some lovely trot work on the long reins in the field.

Occasionally i had seen some twitching in the left shoulder this summer after doing stretches or bodywork. Then about a week and a half ago the twitching got more frequent during one of the stretching sessions. After that I stopped doing the stretches/riding and got the vet out.

The twitching mainly appears when Barney is tied outside his stable whilst I am mucking out. If he is eating I don't see it so much. It doesn't seem as bad in the mornings (the yard usually turn hi out for me so I only have weekends to go on). Each twitching session will only be for a couple of minutes on and off. He likes me to rub his shoulder and will move towards me when it is bothering him so I can. The weird thing is he bends his neck towards the twitching shoulder (which the vet agreed is odd - if something is pinching in theory he should relieve it by bending away). I have put a short video below ....

Short video here

The vet did carrot stretches to elbow both ways - fine. No obvious pain in the leg/shoulder on palpitation. 1/10 lame on front left and 1.5-2/10 lame on front right (although to be fair this was first thing in the morning on concrete - I'm not sure how many 24yo ex eventers would be 0/10!?). The vet said he doesn't seem to be protecting his neck. He said neck x-rays on a horse of his age are likely to show changes anyway so may not be diagnostic.

He is currently on 2 weeks off, 2 bute a day for 7 days and then 1 a day for 7 days. Shoulder twitching has continued to appear and is maybe more frequent (or I could just be being paranoid).

Any ideas/experiences welcome. Obviously I will talk to the vet again too but I'm just not feeling optimistic about it and wondered if anyone on here had any advice.

Thanks.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

Looks like it might point to a missalignment in the horses body if this post is anything to go by:
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...-over-my-horses-shoulders-help-needed.510084/

and an update of the same post suggests 'overstimulation of the latissimus dorsi muscle, which has been pinched by a saddle which is too narrow'
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/twitching-withers-update.698785/#5W4GrV548pueojmw.99

 

[daydreamer]

Thanks, that is useful to read.

 

[be positive]

Horses will not stretch to relieve discomfort in the way we would because it hurts to do so so they will be more likely go into it to relieve whatever the issue is, they do not have the ability to be logical so often do the opposite to what we would.
That looks like a muscle spasm, possibly aggravated by the physio, who really should come back to see how he responded to the treatment given, I would not be too despondent at this stage but I would get the physio back for the follow up check and see what they think.

 

[daydreamer]

Horses will not stretch to relieve discomfort in the way we would because it hurts to do so so they will be more likely go into it to relieve whatever the issue is, they do not have the ability to be logical so often do the opposite to what we would.
That looks like a muscle spasm, possibly aggravated by the physio, who really should come back to see how he responded to the treatment given, I would not be too despondent at this stage but I would get the physio back for the follow up check and see what they think.

Thanks. I see what you mean about the stretching in to pain/pressure it's just the vet said it was odd!

I was very despondent last night but there didn't seem to be quite as much twitching tonight. I had worked myself up in to a state that it was bony changes on the vertebrae and things were just going to get worse rapidly (obviously this still *might* be the case but i have been scouring the internet today and have read at least some positive stories).

I did send a video to the physio and she said it looked like something was pinching in the thoracic/wither region but didn't offer to come back and follow up. If it doesn't get worse I guess I will finish the 2 weeks on bute and then ask the vet if i should get physio/chiro/other/no-one out to look at it.

 

[Red-1]

Looking at the shape of the neck I would suspect that at some point a rug was too tight.

 

[be positive]

Any decent physio should expect to do a follow up as routine to check they have responded to any treatment in the way they wanted, most want to come back within 2-3 weeks, to not do so is unusual and to not want to knowing he has developed a problem seems rather unprofessional and not something any physio I have used would do, he is now under the vet but the two should work together in the interests of the horse, this does seem to be something that a physio would have a better idea of than most vets.
The bute should help the muscles relax, the spasms should reduce but I would want to have the right exercises to do aimed at the area, the ones you are/ were doing may not be appropriate so it could return once the bute is stopped.

 

[SadKen]

Sent a PM but just for anyone following the thread later:

My mare had this, seasonally feb-jun/July for 4 years out of 6 I owned her. Never fully resolved but we are confident it was nerve damage, it is overstimulation of the panniculus reflex which means the nerve is firing when it shouldn't.

As per the above threads we thought initially it was saddle, but later developments show it was likely to be low grade lami altering stance which triggered the sacrum area which was bio mechanically linked to the shoulder. Chiropractor work helped, Angela Holland worked on my mare and did a great job.

My mare had cushings at 13 (and likely before). Cushings has been linked to spasms and nerve conduction problems so at your boy's age it is likely worth testing. Might explain his being a bit dull, and potentially if there is a hint of lami that might be your cause. There should be the option for a free test. There is lots of info on the equine cushings page on Facebook. I've seen similar things posted there before too.

Mag ox can soothe spasms if the horse needs supplementation and it's cheap enough to warrant a go, and I'd treat as laminitic in all cases now after my experience at least in terms of feed.

Hope it's resolved, it is horrible to watch.

 

[daydreamer]

Thankyou so much for taking the time to write such a lengthy reply and pm.

He had a Cushings test when the vet came and it came back borderline. The vet said he wouldn't treat yet but would test every 6 months. I might ask for a TRH test just in case he has cushings but it isn't showing up on the normal test which I know can happen.

I haven't seen any evidence of laminitis but I can certainly keep more of an eye out. I have noticed this year he has struggled to cope with changes in the grass - a few days after it has rained he sometimes gets what seems to be feacal water syndrome for a few days. He is on magnesium oxide anyway but I might give him a wee bit more (very hard to overdose apparently, they just excrete excess).

I will definitely go down the chiropractic route I think with vet agreement.

The good news is much much less twitchy tonight (only saw about 4 short episodes), no head turning and he seemed much less bothered by it. Fingers crossed the not riding and/or bute is helping the symptoms and at some point we'll be able to find the cause.

 

[FillyH]

Hi, did anyone from all of these posts ever get this issue resolved? I’ve just brought a pony, we have had him 3 weeks & the same issue described here is happening to him…

He is a 15 year old 14.2 Connemara gelding…

Any advice/experiences would be hugely appreciated as I am worried sick…

 

[Red-1]

Hi, did anyone from all of these posts ever get this issue resolved? I’ve just brought a pony, we have had him 3 weeks & the same issue described here is happening to him…

He is a 15 year old 14.2 Connemara gelding…

Any advice/experiences would be hugely appreciated as I am worried sick…

I would get the vet for anything you are worried about. Just because the pony has similar symptoms, it could be from a number of causes. The vet is really the only one to be able to advise.

I would ask, is the pony fat? If so, slimming would never hurt, as long as done progressively.

Also, are you feeding salt? It is warmer now.

has the pony had a change in diet?

 

[PurBee]

Hi, did anyone from all of these posts ever get this issue resolved? I’ve just brought a pony, we have had him 3 weeks & the same issue described here is happening to him…

He is a 15 year old 14.2 Connemara gelding…

Any advice/experiences would be hugely appreciated as I am worried sick…

Twitching muscles on a large grazing mammal, cow or horse, i’d first suspect magnesium deficiency, as magnesium relaxes muscles, while calcium contracts muscles. Especially this time of year with grass growing fast. Also tight large muscles are a symptom of magnesium deficiency. Magnesium oxide is cheap to try 1 teaspoon per day.
Grass levels can also spike with potassium after rainfall, causing need for more balanced magnesium.

Other than that a pinched nerve due to injury, or de-nerving symptoms - Mixed B vitamins are good for nerve health, and should be produced naturally in the horses gut, but gut biome imbalances are common, and could potentially reduce the b vitamin production the horse needs.
Forageplus do a B vitamin supplement, or you could use brewer’s yeast which contains all B vits except B12. B12 helps build the sheath covering of nerves, so is important for nerve health, and doesnt want to be left out, so if you use cheap brewer’s yeast, also get some B12 methycobalamin 2000iu, and give one alongside the brewer’s yeast.

As red-1 says, it’s worth getting the vet to inspect your horse and discuss the options.

 

[SEL]

I get some quite spectacular muscle twitching in the same place as the video on the old post - for the pony concerned it's old damage to the withers (query stallion bite) exacerbated by rugs and saddles.

The grass is bonkers at the moment and magnesium and salt are cheap to try - as is less grass. Saddle checks worthwhile and some fly rugs can fit a bit too snug around the neck & withers.

If everything else is ok then I'd actually ask your vet if you can have a physio take a look. Muscle spasms are horrible to look at but usually easy to sort.

 

[FillyH]

Thank you all for your replies…I have the vet coming next week…

I’ve had the pony 3 weeks, he had a 5 stage vetting prior to my purchase & nothing came up apart from he needed to loose weight & was unfit…

Since coming to me his exercise regime & feeding regime have changed to manage his weight & fitness levels…

We have been doing everything very slowly,’he is not rugged..I introduced magnesium when he arrived as this helps with fat distribution in horses…

So could be he has either lost weight & saddle has caused it, or he has done it whilst turned out or in his stable at night…

Just gutted as he has only just arrived after having looked for a pony since last august…he was the 12th pony my daughter tried

 

[Barton Bounty]

This wouldnt worry me particularly, especially if the saddle fits. BB does this at the shoulder if his saddle is needing adjusted or saddle cloth is wrinkled

 

[southerncomfort]

Sounds daft but have you checked for fly bites?

My pony was doing this last week, when I checked him over if found a patch of fly bites under his saddle. Suspect a fly got trapped there when I was tacking up!

 

[FillyH]

Yep checked all over for any sign of bites, nettle rash, hives…nothing to find…

 

[daydreamer]

hi @FillyH I'll try and remember what I can but obviously it was a while ago.

As mentioned above first vets visit didn't really give anything conclusive but I think after a while the twitching seemed to resolve and I think we had a period where it was fine. Then in early spring 2020 it came back and he seemed to get locked in the neck at times . This seemed to happen when he had been out grazing and then came back into his stables. Sometimes you could move his neck in such a way that it seemed to unlock it. One day it was really bad (I wasn't there) and the staff ended up turning him back out and he apparently just ran around the field very distressed. I got there as soon as I could along with the emergency vet and I honestly thought he would have to be PTS. From what I remember the vet gave him an injection of calmivet, rapidexon and dexafort which helped. The yard kindly agreed he could stay out 24/7. A few days later I managed to beg a veterinary chiropractor to come and see him (this was during the start of the 1st covid lockdown so was it was very stressful getting people out and knowing what the rules were etc). From what I remember he said it was the capsule around the vertebrae that was getting pinched not a nerve (but I could be wrong). He gave me some exercises to do and came back a couple of weeks later. That did all solve the neck twitching. He continued to live out 24/7 and I re-started light hacking. His heart didn't really seem in it though and I knew he couldn't live out at that yard 24/7 in the autumn and winter so decided to retire him. He was only mine on loan and his lovely owner had him back (this had always been the agreement) and he retired into a herd out 24/7 in a lovely retirement home. He had the summer and autumn out but we were worried how he would cope in the winter as he did sometimes get a bit bullied by the others and we were worried that the neck problem might come back since we had never really gotten to the bottom of what caused it, plus money was tight so we decided to PTS (sorry if that offends anyone but I still stand by the decision).

The other time I have seen shoulder twitching is in a pony I know. Again his neck seemed to get slightly locked sometimes. I suggested the owners get a physio or chiropractor to have a look (as did other people). After a while they got the vet out (good decision) who apparently insisted that a chiropractor/physio was a massive no no. He was on loads of steroid tables and bute for ages which did nothing. Eventually the owners did get a physio who sorted the problem (I'm not sure if it took one or two visits). So that did get sorted but I felt sorry for the pony as it could have been improved much sooner.

I hope you get to the bottom of the problem with your gelding.

 

[sbloom]

Nerve bundles, and perhaps joing capsules as well, need optimal conditions around them to stay healthy, and that includes muscles. Ridged shoulders, necks with pronounced muscle lines, narrow chests etc all indicate potential lack of muscle inside the shoulders ie much of the thoracic sling. Several bodyworkers etc are really starting to focus on this, thinking that this lack of muscle can be responsible for sharp reactions, whether it's this kind of twitchiness right through to explosive bucking.

Yasmin Stuart is a very interesting vet physio who travels the country and looks at things this way.