Twitching

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be positive

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Not trying to be controversial but how long after using would you consider acceptable for a horse that had been twitched to still have a sore and marked nose?
This is not about whether the use is acceptable but trying to find out for something I am currently dealing with and wondering whether others views will fit with how I feel.

Disclaimer I did not put it on.
 
be positive said:
Not trying to be controversial but how long after using would you consider acceptable for a horse that had been twitched to still have a sore and marked nose?
This is not about whether the use is acceptable but trying to find out for something I am currently dealing with and wondering whether others views will fit with how I feel.

Disclaimer I did not put it on.
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Twitched correctly, using suitable equipment and for a suitable length of time (ie no longer than 15 mins) a horse should not be sore or marked after twitching.

The most 'aftercare' it should need is a little rub to get the feeling back.
 
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I think you mean not sore after twitching patterdale. I've not seen a sore horse after twitching. Perhaps a horse with an extremely sensitive muzzle may be marked but I've not seen it
 
I haven't known a horse to be marked or sore after twitching.
I feel if that is the result, then twitching was used harshly when sedation was needed.
 
We regularly get horses with scars and cuts on their noses from twitching from Ireland. They're all incredibly head shy too (no surprise there) most have been ear twitched as well so it takes a good few months sometimes before they're happy and settled.

The saddest one was this big beautiful baby who had a deep cut on his nose from the twitch. He was so nervous when he first came over but once he settled in you just wanted to put him in your loving room he was the sweetest thing going.
 
Kokopelli said:
We regularly get horses with scars and cuts on their noses from twitching from Ireland. They're all incredibly head shy too (no surprise there) most have been ear twitched as well so it takes a good few months sometimes before they're happy and settled.
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I would just like to point out that thankfully we are not all brutes in Ireland.
 
ozpoz said:
I haven't known a horse to be marked or sore after twitching.
I feel if that is the result, then twitching was used harshly when sedation was needed.
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That was the reply I was hoping to see and my view.

Anyone going to guess how long mine was sore for? only coffee on offer for the closest but it is a nice cappuccino.
 
I have never known a horse to be sore after twitching but one of my horses has a small triangular patch of white hair on his top lip from a twitch being left on too long in a previous home :(
 
When our pony was out on loan she was twitched by the loanees vet to have a Robert Jones changed. The twitch was on in excess of 45 minutes I believe, her nose was sore and swollen for several days and she still has a small scar nearly 10 years later! :( Our own vet went mad when he saw the state of her nose.
 
It's not just the length of time or force used in the twitch, some people use twitches with string or baler twine which is too thin and CAN cause some really nasty injuries. Never seen any of these injuries in normal day to day horsey life but saw quite a few when working with a vet.

Point is, there are many ways a twitch can really hurt, but when used correctly for a short period, they can be extremely useful and cause no after effects. As has been said, it should just be a case of taking off and giving the muzzle a little rub.
 
MurphysMinder said:
When our pony was out on loan she was twitched by the loanees vet to have a Robert Jones changed. The twitch was on in excess of 45 minutes I believe, her nose was sore and swollen for several days and she still has a small scar nearly 10 years later! :( Our own vet went mad when he saw the state of her nose.
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Your pony certainly should have been sedated especially as it was obviously injured and undergoing treatment, pleased to read that your vet was angry about it.
 
be positive said:
Even if applied by a vet for reasons of their safety, treatment non urgent and actually without consent in this case.
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I don't care who put's it on. Vet, numpty owner, Jesus.
Twitching isn't my favourite thing, but in the event it's need for safety then acceptable IMO.

If the horse gets marked or has prolonged soreness then the twitch was done wrong.
 
ihatework said:
I don't care who put's it on. Vet, numpty owner, Jesus.
Twitching isn't my favourite thing, but in the event it's need for safety then acceptable IMO.

If the horse gets marked or has prolonged soreness then the twitch was done wrong.
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So the vet stating "is his nose still sore from the twitch, we use one as routine for nerve blocks", along with a chifney, on a horse that was injured and upset away from home would be unacceptable to you? This was a week later, he was sore for about 10 days, with the skin sloughing off, not badly but noticeably a month or so later, it was actually the least of my concerns at the time but it is still niggling away as I try to get to the bottom of what really happened.

It is interesting to get other views as you can tend to be blinkered when it is your horse that has been injured.
 
be positive said:
So the vet stating "is his nose still sore from the twitch, we use one as routine for nerve blocks", along with a chifney, on a horse that was injured and upset away from home would be unacceptable to you? This was a week later, he was sore for about 10 days, with the skin sloughing off, not badly but noticeably a month or so later, it was actually the least of my concerns at the time but it is still niggling away as I try to get to the bottom of what really happened.

It is interesting to get other views as you can tend to be blinkered when it is your horse that has been injured.
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My gut feeling is that it is unacceptable.
I put with that the caveat that I do not know the horse or the exact situation.

Nerve blocking is tricky, as I'm sure you know. It needs to be exact and a fidgety horse can make the procedure more difficult. However as you need them alert to the trot up/ride/lunge, it is a procedure that doesn't mix well with sedating.

I have horses that you could nerve block in a headcollar no issue. I also have one that would 'create' about it - that horse is also the one horse I would be reluctant to ever twitch.

Skin sloughing off :(
 
I use a twitch when clipping round my mare's head and work in the 10 minutes on 5 minutes off rule until it's done. She is never sore. I hate doing it but to be honest she's not remotely bothered by it and it makes head clipping so much less stressful for us both (she is also sedated for clipping but needs a bit extra for the head). Before anybody suggests desensitising her - I've tried it's not fear it's ticklishness so doesn't work.
 
i nose twitch my mare to trim ears, so less than 2 mins, have used nose twitch on others for up to 10 mins at a time max, personally I much prefer to skin twitch by hand, we have mare at work form Ireland who has massive damage to her tongue from tongue twitching and my mares dam had the same.

if the skin is sloughing I would question how long they left the twitch on for, was it for the whole of the nerve blocking session-I cant see them putting it on, applying a nerve block taking it off trotting up, putting it on nerve block of etc etc.

the vet at work wanted to nose twitch the mare with tongue scarring when he nerve blocked her about 8 weeks ago, I refused to do a nose twitch (this mare is seriously sc**wed up due to bad handling) but was happy to do a skin twitch, his comment 'oh I have never seen one of those before, lets see how we get on shall we?' she is a seriously sharp and defensive mare and she went to sleep every time twitch was applied, the vet was amazed.

chiffney at vets seems to be standard these days, partly because the sizing is so easy if they used a snaffle then they would need so many to accommodate all the horses and ponies that need to wear it-also the lack of joints in the bit mean it is easier to keep clean, my own and those I work with always go in with a snaffle bridle to put over their headcollar so they have something to use if needed.
 
be positive said:
So the vet stating "is his nose still sore from the twitch, we use one as routine for nerve blocks", along with a chifney, on a horse that was injured and upset away from home would be unacceptable to you? This was a week later, he was sore for about 10 days, with the skin sloughing off, not badly but noticeably a month or so later, it was actually the least of my concerns at the time but it is still niggling away as I try to get to the bottom of what really happened.

It is interesting to get other views as you can tend to be blinkered when it is your horse that has been injured.
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I'm be pretty unhappy about this, especially as vet can administer a sedative, which would be much less stressful for the horse.

I do twitch some horses, for some jobs, but have never experienced any hint of a mark when I take it off.
 
minimilton said:
I would just like to point out that thankfully we are not all brutes in Ireland.
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I was certainly not implying that. OP asked about horses being marked by twitches and I gave her my experience.

I twitch my boy to clip his face and last year he got an eye infection and the only way to treat without poking his eye out was to twitch. I have nothing against them or the people who use them but they need to be used correctly.
 
twiggy2 said:
i nose twitch my mare to trim ears, so less than 2 mins, have used nose twitch on others for up to 10 mins at a time max, personally I much prefer to skin twitch by hand, we have mare at work form Ireland who has massive damage to her tongue from tongue twitching and my mares dam had the same.

if the skin is sloughing I would question how long they left the twitch on for, was it for the whole of the nerve blocking session-I cant see them putting it on, applying a nerve block taking it off trotting up, putting it on nerve block of etc etc.

the vet at work wanted to nose twitch the mare with tongue scarring when he nerve blocked her about 8 weeks ago, I refused to do a nose twitch (this mare is seriously sc**wed up due to bad handling) but was happy to do a skin twitch, his comment 'oh I have never seen one of those before, lets see how we get on shall we?' she is a seriously sharp and defensive mare and she went to sleep every time twitch was applied, the vet was amazed.

chiffney at vets seems to be standard these days, partly because the sizing is so easy if they used a snaffle then they would need so many to accommodate all the horses and ponies that need to wear it-also the lack of joints in the bit mean it is easier to keep clean, my own and those I work with always go in with a snaffle bridle to put over their headcollar so they have something to use if needed.
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So it is possible in your experience that they may have kept it on for the whole session, that would have been a long time he had 3 areas done although one was repeated as it did not take fully, the second, a 4 point proved "difficult" due to the swelling in the area so not a quick straightforward job.
As for the bridle I was not allowed to leave his rubber bit, he does not cope well with metal at the best of times, I was not able to stay as I would have wished due to being misled about what was planned.
 
Do you happen to know if a so-called "humane twitch" was used, or the conventional sort with a rope loop at the end of a baton? The reason I ask is that the humane twitch can be easily attached to a headcollar after it has been tightened and will maintain the pinch while the handler gets on with something else (e.g. mane pulling). The downside is that it would be easier inadvertently to leave it on for longer than it should be. In contrast, the conventional sort of twitch is usually held by a second person, so there should be less 'excuse' not to remove and reapply it as appropriate. Just a thought...
 
I have no idea what was used, judging by the mark I would think it was rope but there was a slightly pinched area that could have been caused by a humane one, there were plenty of people involved so I would have expected it to be removed when not required I find it hard to imagine a horse trotting up with a twitch on, although it may have made the flexion tests easier to do so who knows, they are not answering me hence trying to do some research and get other opinions.
 
Reading between the lines, you have sent your horse away to the vets for a work up, horse arrived back like this, you are less than impressed, and vet is not forthcoming with an explanation.

In your shoes I'd take photographic evidence immediately. If horse is showing obvious pain response I'd video it.

Then send this with a letter to the unit manager and request a meeting. If you hear nothing further, or dislike what they say, then you have the option to involve RCVS if you feel strongly enough
 
ihatework said:
Reading between the lines, you have sent your horse away to the vets for a work up, horse arrived back like this, you are less than impressed, and vet is not forthcoming with an explanation.

In your shoes I'd take photographic evidence immediately. If horse is showing obvious pain response I'd video it.

Then send this with a letter to the unit manager and request a meeting. If you hear nothing further, or dislike what they say, then you have the option to involve RCVS if you feel strongly enough
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Agree this!
 
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