two horses die at scottish grand national

[teagreen]

I just do not understand those who are so against the racing industry.

Animal Aid state on their website:

Because Aintree and the industry as a whole make a concerted effort to conceal news of equine fatalities, Animal Aid is making that information public

Racehorses die a public death, since the public go the racecourses. Racing Post publish the news of every faller in their race analysis. But why do Animal Aid not publish a tally of all the Dartmoor Hill ponies shot? Or of all the leisure horses who die in that time? I think you will find those figures overtake racing deaths. Just because you don't see them dying, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And it's not the death I worry about, as many have said, there are much worse fates than death. There are countless horses standing in muddy fields that no one has looked at for years, and riding school ponies who have had the same job for the past 20 years and who are so sour they don't have any zest left - who would you rather be? Their suffering is lingering and ongoing.

Racing is picked on because it is so public and well regulated. I cannot understand why people with geuine concerns for animal welfare don't campaign for things they can make a difference in instead. Over2You, you are a very blind person if you cannot understand that more leisure horses will die of 'abuse', even if it is well meaning 'abuse' (over feeding, people buying horses they can't handle, even riding on the roads!) than racehorses - you just don't hear about the others.

 

[JanetGeorge]

There are countless horses standing in muddy fields that no one has looked at for years, and riding school ponies who have had the same job for the past 20 years and who are so sour they don't have any zest left - who would you rather be? Their suffering is lingering and ongoing.

Racing is picked on because it is so public and well regulated. I cannot understand why people with geuine concerns for animal welfare don't campaign for things they can make a difference in instead.

Animal Aid is not concerned with animal welfare - it is concerned with animal 'rights'! Racing is targeted because it is high profile, involves a lot of money, and makes the news! For a WELFARE story to make the news it has to be FAR worse - lik Amersham! One or two horses starving in a roadside field are not news - sadly! Therefore they don't attract donations to Animal Aid!! How often do you see Blue Cross, Equine Market Watch, and other genuine horse welfare charities making the news???? Yet who does more for horse welfare - day in and day out??

 

[AmyMay]

Very sad. You also have to question how fair the connections of Minella Four Star were to put him in for this - he's run four times in the last two months, having won the Midlands National three weeks ago. It's a big ask...

Very good point.

Talk about taking a horse to the well once to often.......

 

[teagreen]

Animal Aid is not concerned with animal welfare - it is concerned with animal 'rights'! Racing is targeted because it is high profile, involves a lot of money, and makes the news! For a WELFARE story to make the news it has to be FAR worse - lik Amersham! One or two horses starving in a roadside field are not news - sadly! Therefore they don't attract donations to Animal Aid!! How often do you see Blue Cross, Equine Market Watch, and other genuine horse welfare charities making the news???? Yet who does more for horse welfare - day in and day out??

That's what I'm saying - they are a bunch of hypcrites who no one should support.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Just a quick point to all of you who disagree with racing - next time you horse needs medication or surgery just remember that the racing industry has paid for a vast majority of the research into these things. What stage would veterinary science be at without that funding?

 

[Luci07]

Animal Aid is not concerned with animal welfare - it is concerned with animal 'rights'! Racing is targeted because it is high profile, involves a lot of money, and makes the news! For a WELFARE story to make the news it has to be FAR worse - lik Amersham! One or two horses starving in a roadside field are not news - sadly! Therefore they don't attract donations to Animal Aid!! How often do you see Blue Cross, Equine Market Watch, and other genuine horse welfare charities making the news???? Yet who does more for horse welfare - day in and day out??

someone talking sense...

I take a pragmatic view of racing. This discipline, like ALL the others will have its good and bad sides. It will have its good and bad owners/trainers etc. I am not a massive racing fan - because racing is not my "thing", not because I have a problem with how the horses are treated. I just don't get particularly excited watching horses race, whereas I will set transfixed watching a good XC round or high level dressage. I am one of the many people who has benefited from racings cast offs and had some fun ex racers to work with.

The one fact I can absolutely take issue with is that of the horses being forced to run/jump and am fed up with hearing how horses are panicked into racing. If a horse does not want to jump or run, it won't. Ascot and other sales have a lot of horses who simply will not do it! and while there was an example of a horse breaking its leg - that could have happened at any time, not just racing.

Maybe there could be more focus on the excellent charities that look to retrain horses who no longer have a career in racing or as JG said, the likes of Blue Cross etc who don't get the same press...

 

[Jennyharvey]

NO horse rider should support Animal Aid. While it often comes across as a 'reasonable' animal welfare group it IS an extreme animal 'rights' group. It is campaigning against animal experiments, factory farming, wildlife culls, and the use of animals for sport and leisure That includes ANY form of horse riding!

That doesn't mean horse riders shouldn't be concerned about welfare aspects of racing or any other equestrian sport - but I'd be careful who you get into bed with!

Why shouldnt i support animal aid? Yes they do a lot of campaining on animals in sport, vivisection, factory farming, but i wouldnt call it an 'extreme' group at all. Its my choice what charities i support. If you want extreme, look no farther than PETA. thats extreme, and i dont support them at all. I agree with what they represent, but not how they go about there campaining. Or maybe ANY animal rights group is too extreme for you, just because they believe in something different?

 

[BSJAlove]

Let me picture horses jumping over something rigid and solid of about the same starting height as a puissance wall. Now let me picture them doing so from a fast paced gallop. Now let me picture the inevitable carnage. Oh, wait, I have already seen that far too many times to count!!

You say again about how much the people in racing love the horses (paragraph 2), but why involve yourself in a sport knowing fine well that retuning with an empty bridle is a strong possibility. On average, 1 out of every 35 NH horses starting the season will not see the end of it.

Please also tell me exactly what it is you love about racing. I was discussing this with a couple of friends and my Mother the other day, but we were all stumped to come up with a reason.

what total uneducated cr*p!

firstly, the GN fences have been made safer. if you watch, most of the horses jump through the fence anyway. so compairing a 5ft (on average) fence to a 7ft 3 puissance wall is utter tosh. its a different sport. you get people racing hurdles, and you get people doing high jump.

why involve your self in horses if you dont want to run that risk! if you dont want to risk your horse O2Y, then turn it out safely in to your perfect field and leave it there. but obviously we cant garantee said horse wont gallop around and break a leg. i honestly cant be bothered to ellaborate on this point as your one of those idiots that do not back up any of your stupid points with facts.

and lastly. why do i enjoy racing? for the same reason i enjoy hunting. its fast, its furious and its good fun for everyone.

 

[AmyMay]

Let me picture horses jumping over something rigid and solid of about the same starting height as a puissance wall.

Oh dear. I see you are completely out of touch with reality. It's so much worse than any of us could imagine............................

 

[imasmartie]

well let me say something I have read posts on here So i will try to help put the record straight.
First i have worked in racing since I was 16 [long time ago] if you think racing people dont care please take a look at racing post site artical about Bible lord who ran intopham at liverpool the no caring racing people have seen fit to have the horse trested and not put down.
secondly horses in racing are not put down for the sake of it there is good reasons [without wishing to bore the less educated amoung us] often horse breaks leg gets put down because not good patient, or there body weight alone contrubiutes to horse not being able to surstain it self in a comfortable manor which is another reason they get put down.
welfare is usually second to none.
I meny years ago was a fully licenced greyhound trainer i came out of the sport for a lot of reasons one being the prize money two the amount of dogs that for one reason or another were put down, [all to easy then to put dogs down] however rules and welfare issues have took over [some for the better] but one sad thing the ANTIE-DOG RACING IDIOTS HAVE DONE, THEY HAVE REMOVED MOST OF THE RIGHTS OF THE DOG TO HAVE IT PUT DOWN, dogs get injured like horses however there not so lucky, if they break there back and are not killed out right, the vet now has to wait for owner/trainers permission to put the dog down IS THAT RIGHT OR WRONG!!!!!
[ HAVE TO SAY ATTEND ASCOT SALE In OCTOBER SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE SENDING HORSES THERE HAD NOT EVEN BOTHERED ABOUT TURNING THEM OUT TO ATRACT ANY SORT OF BUYER IN SOME CASES THAY SENT HORSES THERE KNOWING THEY WERE MEAT ANIMALS THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED BEACUSE SOME WERE BROUGHT OUTSIDE THE RING AND WENT TO BEASTON MARKET THE NEXT DAY TO BE SOLD FOR MEAT .GOT NO PROBLUM WITH THAT BUT FACE FACTS THERES NO NEED TO PUT THE HORSE THROUGH THAT IF THATS ALL ITS WORTH BUT THESE PEOPLE GIVE Racing a bad name}HOWEVER i will tell you the following i brought a 16.2 gelding [HE NOW 17.2] from Asoct sales in november he was cheap i quickly found out the reason why he COULD BITE FOR ENGLAND AND I MEAN BITE, however thankfully for him i took the view that HIS PROBLUM was man made and not him,
he went onto a red traffic light as he was a danger to handle, [without boring you with the details]
i had the vet on a routine vist to look at all 7 of the ex racers here, we had his teeth done, [yes i hold my hands up it was a mistake should have been done first but as like everyone else what didnt help was when the weather turned to snow we were traped in stables for a month didnt help his temper] plus i was not spending money on a horse that could end up being shot[ he had mouth ulcers 4inch one side 3 inches on the other] i gurantee he would never have picked the bridle up!!!!!
that said he has now turned the corner and is looking forward to a bight future doing a different job.
IM A REALIST THINGS GO ON IN ALL SPORTS RACING INCLUDED BADLEY TRAINED STAFF BAD RIDERS ETC, ITS UP TO THE RACING STAFF TO REPORT IT!!!! AND TRAINERS NOT TO KEEP TURNING A BLIND EYE AND EXCEPTING SECOND BEST!!!!!

 

[imasmartie]

OH I FORGOT TO SAY IF YOU WANT T SEE ABUSE
then you should have a look at B S P A AREA 4A AT RODBASTON COLLEGE SHOW THAT TOOK PLACE ON SUNDAY, I saw a woman bEATing the **** out of a pony that had been stabled over night night because it had done no good ALL THIS IN THE NAME OF SPORT I DONT THINK SO SO TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT MAY READ THIS FROM THAT SHOW YOU WILL AND HAVE BEEN REPORTED!!!!!!!

 

[AMH]

Don't get me started on showing - how obesity is not considered cruelty is beyond me. I was at the Devon County a few years ago and watched the Heavy Hunter class. None of those animals could have sustained an hour's hunting, let alone a day's.

Racehorses are trained BY LICENCED PROFESSIONALS ONLY to go out and do their job. If a trainer has his or her licence revoked, he or she will no longer be able to train. This speaks for itself in terms of how seriously the racing fraternity takes the welfare of the animals and the integrity of its sport.

 

[AmyMay]

OH I FORGOT TO SAY IF YOU WANT T SEE ABUSE
then you should have a look at B S P A AREA 4A AT RODBASTON COLLEGE SHOW THAT TOOK PLACE ON SUNDAY, I saw a woman bEATing the **** out of a pony that had been stabled over night night because it had done no good ALL THIS IN THE NAME OF SPORT I DONT THINK SO SO TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT MAY READ THIS FROM THAT SHOW YOU WILL AND HAVE BEEN REPORTED!!!!!!!

It's good to hear that you were able to report the abuse to the stewards at the show, and that hopefully some action is being taken against the owner of the pony.

 

[marble]

No! it wont end, the last place I look for cruelty is on the racecourse, enough has been said about that already. I went to an auction yesterday, there was not one humane person there, be it vender or buyer, mares and foals, youngsters, the gelded and the entire were just moved around on the continuious(sp) spiral of a commodity. They were sold from dealer to dealer, low value animals nearly worthless. What chance will they have, none IMO. A lovely sec A mare, had laminitis and 13 yrs old, done all the PC jobs and sold for £150. I dont think that she will have an easy life from now on, she is a commodity. You Jennyharvey are a very silly and uninformed woman and I am getting very fed up with your anti-racing and animal aid posts. Please why dont you direct your anger about animal welfare away from racing, there is more a huge world out there of animal neglect.

I just want to say that I agree with you, I to have been at auctions and seen equines like the welsh section a you spoke about, sold to gods knows what, every time I think about her, I could cry, what did she do to deserve what is going to happen now. Far better PTS either at home, or in the local horse abbatoir. How could you justify sending her to auction just to get 150 pounds, oh and by the way, I am on pension credit and 150 pounds would pay my oil bill, but still would never think of doing at thing like this.
Leave the racehorses alone, and if you do still want to make a fuss, press for the no whip, or if the whip is overused take the race away from the winner, you would soon see a difference then. Big Bucks is the best example "think Cheltenham"....

 

[JanetGeorge]

Why shouldnt i support animal aid? Yes they do a lot of campaining on animals in sport, vivisection, factory farming, but i wouldnt call it an 'extreme' group at all. Its my choice what charities i support. If you want extreme, look no farther than PETA. thats extreme, and i dont support them at all.

Oh - feel free to be a hypocrite! As far as Andrew Tyler - the director of Animal Aid is concerned - you are JUST as bad as the jumping trainers and NH jockeys because you force your horse to be your slave and carry you around! Animal Aid is JUST as extreme in its philosophy and beliefs as PETA - but Tyler knows that - in the UK - being HONEST would shut the cheque books of lots of nice little ladies who love animals but who have daughters (or grand-daughters) in the Pony Club!

IF Tyler managed to get Jumps racing stopped in the UK (and while that seems unlikely, if you'd told me 10 years ago that jumps racing would be stopped in Victoria (Australia) I'd have laughed in your face!) then he would move on - probably to high level eventing and/or showjumping. It would only take a couple of (equine) fatalities at Badminton or Burghley - or Hickstead - to kickstart it!

And - BTW - I DO know Tyler - and I know his views!

 

[Jennyharvey]

Oh - feel free to be a hypocrite! As far as Andrew Tyler - the director of Animal Aid is concerned - you are JUST as bad as the jumping trainers and NH jockeys because you force your horse to be your slave and carry you around! Animal Aid is JUST as extreme in its philosophy and beliefs as PETA - but Tyler knows that - in the UK - being HONEST would shut the cheque books of lots of nice little ladies who love animals but who have daughters (or grand-daughters) in the Pony Club!

IF Tyler managed to get Jumps racing stopped in the UK (and while that seems unlikely, if you'd told me 10 years ago that jumps racing would be stopped in Victoria (Australia) I'd have laughed in your face!) then he would move on - probably to high level eventing and/or showjumping. It would only take a couple of (equine) fatalities at Badminton or Burghley - or Hickstead - to kickstart it!

And - BTW - I DO know Tyler - and I know his views!

You dont think i fully understand this? Believe me, i do. I guess i just dont have the same motivations as people who compete there horses. I dont want glory, money, ego,status. The reason i ride is to help domesticated horses be understood, and used KINDLY, instead of just a machine for money making or ego. Or being abused or misunderstood because of human ignorance. I feel that if i can get ONE person to understand there horse better, to use kind training and riding, or help the horse overcome its fears and problems, then i have done something to help.
If i were to have nothing more to do with horses, it really would be pointless. I dont think that horses will ever be free, so i might as well try to help them in there domestication, instead of having nothing to do with them.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Jenny the world you inhabit is not where the rest of us live the real world.

If you really want to make a difference cancel your subscription to Animal Aid and subscribe to one of the many horse charities out there.They are not full of hot air and do actually make a difference to horses lives. You could actually see where you money goes and I am sure that would give you greater satisfaction.

 

[Jennyharvey]

Jenny the world you inhabit is not where the rest of us live the real world.

If you really want to make a difference cancel your subscription to Animal Aid and subscribe to one of the many horse charities out there.They are not full of hot air and do actually make a difference to horses lives. You could actually see where you money goes and I am sure that would give you greater satisfaction.[/QUOT

Im a member of animal aid because im vegan, i believe in the work of animal rights charities, not just for horses but for all animals used by humans for food and enertainment.
But i do agree that there are other charities who offer more help to the overall horse population, and i have done my part in helping these charities too.

Believe me, i do live in the real world, just like everyone else. I know what exactly goes on, for animal and people alike. Just because i want to believe in a better world for everyone, doesnt mean im not in touch with reality.

 

[Over2You]

Jenny the world you inhabit is not where the rest of us live the real world.

If you really want to make a difference cancel your subscription to Animal Aid and subscribe to one of the many horse charities out there.They are not full of hot air and do actually make a difference to horses lives. You could actually see where you money goes and I am sure that would give you greater satisfaction.

Both Jenny and I live in the real world!! That is why we hate it as much!!

Also: If Animal Aid were such a useless organization, then why is it that they were able to make the nation's biggest supermarkets, numerous councils and DEFRA pay attention to their campaigns? Why is it that they have been able to stop cities using horse drawn carriages and universities using primates for experiments? Or the FACT that many schools, colleges, etc, use their literature as part of their curriculum? Not to mention their successful campaign to get supermarkets to support the use of CCTV in slaughterhouses. Look at this and this.

 

[teagreen]

But look at the leaflet produced by AA that is for children, called 'Friend or Food?'-

In the UK, most of us wouldn’t dream of eating a dog or a cat, but have no qualmsabout tucking into the flesh (and other parts) of pigs, chickens, cows, sheep, turkeys and fish. And why is it acceptable to eat rabbits who have been produced for meat, but not those from a pet shop; or to eat farmed ducks, but not those who are thrown bits of bread on the river?
Animals bred to be eaten experience pain, fear and distress in the same way as the dog or cat who may share your home. But the meat industry markets their flesh in away designed to break the link with a living, feeling being.

If we got to know these individuals, we would find that they are just as friendly,serious, funny or shy as any dog or cat in our lives and each deserves just as much respect.

All animal farming, whether the process used is described as intensive, free-range or organic, involves treating sentient beings as mere commodities to be mass-produced and killed for food. Animal Aid’s undercover investigations have shown that slaughterhouses are places of fear and suffering. Killing another being for food can never be regarded as humane.

What a load of one sided rubbish. We have a farm that produces meat and the animals are treated with the utmost respect. My father knows them all and their personalities, they live in large barns during the winter with plenty of fresh straw, silage and barley. They spend all summer out at grass. The ones in to be fattened spend their days lying in a straw filled shed in the sun and haven't a care or want in the world. One day a lorry comes and the experienced stockman loads them up and they are killed humanely within hours of leaving the farm. They are not crammed into dirty, stinking sheds with fear in their eyes and living in fear of the nasty farmer. And I personally don't know any farm where that goes on - there will be places where substandard care takes place, but the same can be said for absolutely everywhere that keeps animals - riding schools, kennels, houses filled with cats etc.

They are also COWS. What the hell do Animal Aid WANT to do with them - let them all roam free?

It's a nice though, an ideal world, where all the animals are free. But we don't live in one. It isn't going to happen. So why try to make the kids think "See that pig? He's exactly the same as your dog Rover. And if you stop eating ham on your sarnies, they'll let him run free, like Babe."

Also their racing stuff. Animal Aid want racing banned. No one who cares about horses wants racing banned. NO WHERE DO ANIMAL AID MENTION WHAT THEY WOULD DO WITH THE RACEHORSES IF RACING WAS BANNED.

It's all a load of brainwashing cr*p, especially their stuff for children. Even the language used is maniuplative and straight from the Daily Mail School of Journalism. I do hope any teachers who use their stuff also shows children the good side of animal keeping. I'm all for excellent standards for horses and farm animals and pets etc etc. But I'm not for letting them roam free. AA want the most extreme of everything - stop farming, stop shooting, stop racing. But nowhere do they mention what would happen AFTER these things got banned. A rosy, cruelty free world? No way.

ETA:
I just looked at another leaflet on their youth section. It makes me angry:

Huge, dark, stinking sheds are crammed full of miserable animals, who will never breathe fresh air or see natural daylight other
than during transport to a market or slaughterhouse. They can hardly stretch their wings or legs and will never be able to roam freely. They often have to stand, and lie down in, their own waste. Farmed animals are treated as though they are stupid and unfeeling, but they experience pain, discomfort, fear, loneliness and frustration in the same way as other animals do.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Sorry TeaGreen I have just had the funniest image pop into my head!

You could be sitting having a nice cup of tea in your nice little kitchen in your town house when a cow sticks it's head through the window and moo's at you whilst other cows wander aimlessly through the streets rooting through rubbish and chewing magnolia's!

If you set free all of these farmed and domesticated animals then all hell would break loose - literally! There would be fighting in the middle of every street - busted heads, broken bones, dead animals here there and everywhere. You would get those sassy little females that would be parading on street corners, flutering their eyelashes ready to add to the free and roaming population. And if you thought pigeon poop on your car was bad wait until all the chickens get loose!

Mayhem! Pure and utter Mayhem!

 

[Dobiegirl]

Well done Teagreen nicely put and once all these animals are roaming free who will look after the countryside, Animalaid no I dont think so,

The RSPCA has lobbied for the installation of cctv in slaughterhouses for a long while trust Animalaid to take all the credit.

Also Jamie Oliver and Hugh Fernie Whittingstall have campaigned for the end of factory farming and it is ongoing. My local shop only sell organic free range eggs and Im pretty sure their customers will have never heard of Animalaid but are familiar with JO & HFW.

Looking at theAA site I see you are trying to stop the culling of grey squirrels or tree rats as I like to call them. Why would anyone want to do that, they spread squirrel pox t the reds and if this is what it takes to save the reds Im all for it. At the moment grey squirrels have taken up residence in one of our outhouses loft and are terrorizing our swallows all Im going to say is not for much longer.

I also believe AA is against the culling of magpies, one year we had all our songbirds nests in our garden raided by magpies but after they were culled the following year our songbirds reared all their broods.

I repeat you do not live in the real world but walk about with rose tinted spectacles.

 

[teagreen]

Animal Aid assume that ALL farmers are cruel, that EVERYONE who eats meat has no care for animals, that EVERYONE involved in racing is cruel and hates horses. And this is what they tell children. And it is lying.

 

[teagreen]

Also Jamie Oliver and Hugh Fernie Whittingstall have campaigned for the end of factory farming and it is ongoing. My local shop only sell organic free range eggs and Im pretty sure their customers will have never heard of Animalaid but are familiar with JO & HFW.

Organic and free range farming is cruel too, AA say. It is no better than factory farming. To them, ALL forms of farming and animal production is cruel and should be stopped.

What will happen if they install CCTV in all the slaughterhouses and there is no cruelty going on...what will AA complain about then. Rather than be happy that there is no cruelty, they'd MUCH prefer if CCTV in slaughterhouses exposed animals being mistreated. I'm sure they like it when horses die racing too, more to moan about.

Nooo EKW, that wouldn't happen, don't be silly! They'd run free on lush green hills and raise their young in peace, and a nice human might sometimes come and rub their head and pat them and they'd all live happily on the hills. With the racehorses, who would also frolic happily in the buttercups and nuzzle together like a scene from Spirit....duh

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Nooo EKW, that wouldn't happen, don't be silly! They'd run free on lush green hills and raise their young in peace, and a nice human might sometimes come and rub their head and pat them and they'd all live happily on the hills. With the racehorses, who would also frolic happily in the buttercups and nuzzle together like a scene from Spirit....duh

Ah! Sorry! That's where I went wrong! I have never watched Spirit! Only Babe - Pig In The City!

 

[Delicious]

I do enjoy watching national hunt racing. Yes I find it terribly sad when a horse is injured or worse PTS no one likes to see that but it happens with any horse sport not just racing. There are fatalities in show jumping and eventing but this doesn’t get the bad publicity that racing gets. Should they have banned the Hickstead Derby after a horse broke its leg coming down the bank a few years ago or what about Badminton when two horses died there one year!

I’ve had many friends work in racing and they simply adore the horses they work with and they are looked after like kings. What those poor horses and ponies being shipped round markets on a regular basis would give to swap places with a racehorse! Racing is completely natural for horses, my two often race each other round the field, I hate it as I worry they might injure themselves but horses will be horses and you can’t wrap them in cotton wool all of the time.

My old TB started out racing, he then went intermediate evening and then became a hunter until I got him in his twilight years as a light hack. He broke his leg in the field and had to be PTS.

 

[_MizElz_]

It's all a load of brainwashing cr*p, especially their stuff for children. Even the language used is maniuplative and straight from the Daily Mail School of Journalism. I do hope any teachers who use their stuff also shows children the good side of animal keeping.

We do - well, at least some of us do! Some of my best debates in class involve looking at various aspects of animal welfare. Interestingly, even for those who are not animal-orientated, the literature available from the likes of PETA and Animal Aid often proves invaluable, because it offers one of the most graphic illustrations of bias ever seen...

 

[Jennyharvey]

I dont really know how we have gone from racing to animal rights and meat eating lol. But anyway. I guess for me the reall issue is that we just dont need to eat meat to survive. Vegans and veggies are just as healthy, if not more healthy than omnivores. There is a lot of scientific studies done that show the effects of these diets, and its pretty conclusive, at least to me, that we don not need to eat animals to servive. If however we did, then at least the suffering and slaughtering of farm animals would be justifiable. But we just dont need to.

Also, i dont think anyone would really think that we could release farm animals into the wild. What would happen is we would just consume all the animals already alive. This probably wouldnt take long, because people eat a LOT of meat. Plus if we didnt have all these farm animal, there would be a lot less polution, a healthier planet and healthier people.

Thats just my take on it anyway. Not trying to tell anyone else what to believe.

 

[_MizElz_]

I dont really know how we have gone from racing to animal rights and meat eating lol. But anyway. I guess for me the reall issue is that we just dont need to eat meat to survive. Vegans and veggies are just as healthy, if not more healthy than omnivores. There is a lot of scientific studies done that show the effects of these diets, and its pretty conclusive, at least to me, that we don not need to eat animals to servive. If however we did, then at least the suffering and slaughtering of farm animals would be justifiable. But we just dont need to.

Also, i dont think anyone would really think that we could release farm animals into the wild. What would happen is we would just consume all the animals already alive. This probably wouldnt take long, because people eat a LOT of meat. Plus if we didnt have all these farm animal, there would be a lot less polution, a healthier planet and healthier people.

Thats just my take on it anyway. Not trying to tell anyone else what to believe.

I understand your sentiment - I really do. When I was about 15/16, I flirted with the idea of becoming a vegetarian, because I couldn't bear the thought that the lovely little calf I had just helped my best friend to hand rear would one day end up on the family's plate.

But the scenario you have described - where meat is effectively outlawed and we simply eat up the animals that are currently living, then go onto a pure vegetarian diet - what do you think would happen to the current 'edible' species? They would all become extinct. There would be no Aberdeen Angus, no Herefords, no Belgian Blues. You may still have Friesian cows for milk, although you'd argue that if meat were to be banned, the dairy industry would follow pronto. Nobody would breed sheep; wool, let's face it, is a by product of meat, and nobody would breed them just for their wool alone, not with all the synthetic alternatives that are available now. Nobody would ever breed pigs - for the same reasons. Leather would be replaced with a synthetic alternative. The farmyard would become a thing of the past - and I fail to see how anyone could truly want that. The pollution argument is, in my view, negligible; we humans need to look to ourselves and our gadgetised lifestyles before we start blaming animals for ruining the planet.

Now, as much as eating meat sometimes makes me feel uneasy (and I would be lying if I said it didn't), I would hate to see a world where cows, sheep and pigs became a thing of the past. Because that, essentially, is the scenario you are presenting.

I also understand that you (unlike some others on here) are actually not trying to pick a fight with anyone, and are simply expressing your own views - which is great, because at the end of the day, that's what makes a healthy debate

 

[JanetGeorge]

I dont really know how we have gone from racing to animal rights and meat eating lol. But anyway. I guess for me the reall issue is that we just dont need to eat meat to survive. Vegans and veggies are just as healthy, if not more healthy than omnivores.

Mmm ... how many babies breast fed by omnivore mothers die of malnutrition?? See: http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html

Plus if we didnt have all these farm animal, there would be a lot less polution, a healthier planet and healthier people.

And what would happen to all the farm land that supports livestock - but is not suitable for crop growing. The countryside would be a very different place! And don't you think that crop growing causes pollution - excess nitrogenous fertilisers, herbicides, pesticides!! And without grass break crops (and farmyard manure) soil would quickly lose heart and structure - even more chemicals would be required!

And gee - you'd need to kill a LOT more animals. Rabbits, hares, badgers (who can afford to have expensive equipment going down a badger sett!)

You're living - like most AR supporters - in Cloud Cuckoo land! You will NEVER get what you want - and you make it far harder to gain improvements in animal WELFARE!