Elf On A Shelf
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First of a HUGE congratulations for your horses gutsy performance in the Scottish National!
Secondly - very good luck today and let us know how you get on!
two horses die at scottish grand national
- Thread starter Jennyharvey
- Start date
First of a HUGE congratulations for your horses gutsy performance in the Scottish National!
Secondly - very good luck today and let us know how you get on!
Jennyharvey
Well-Known Member
lol you obviously havnt met too many healthy vegans. Im sure you are familiar with the type of work farriers and trimmers do. Most of it is back breaking work, which takes a lot of strength and energy. Im a trimmer, and believe me, if i was weak or ill, i couldnt do my job. But i dont have a problem with the workload. To say you need to eat meat to be strong is really laughable. You can have unhealthy vegans, just as you can have unhealthy omnivores. But like someone else has pointed out, its gone ridiculously off topic lol.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
So you are a trimmer why dosnt that surprise me.
Yes it has gone off topic because quite frankly its been done to death.
I noticed you and Overtoyou havnt commented on the sales thread in NL on unwanted horses and ponies being hawked round sales without food or water.
Thats what I call cruelty not the death of 2 very pampered racehorses doing a job they love.
What pampering do those little scraps at the sales experience.?
Yes it has gone off topic because quite frankly its been done to death.
I noticed you and Overtoyou havnt commented on the sales thread in NL on unwanted horses and ponies being hawked round sales without food or water.
Thats what I call cruelty not the death of 2 very pampered racehorses doing a job they love.
What pampering do those little scraps at the sales experience.?
Jennyharvey
Well-Known Member
No i wouldnt blame the farmers. I dont like to put blame on anyone, but because of how the land has been treated, we have lost some of its nutritional value, especially B12. Even omnivores are advised to add B12 supplements to there diet because animals cant get the same amount they use too.
Just a snipet from wiki.
Neither plants nor animals are independently capable of constructing vitamin B12.[4] Only bacteria have the enzymes required for its synthesis. The total synthesis of B12 was reported by Robert Burns Woodward[5] and Albert Eschenmoser in 1972,[6][7] and remains one of the classic feats of organic synthesis. Species from the following genera are known to synthesize B12: Acetobacterium, Aerobacter, Agrobacterium, Alcaligenes, Azotobacter, Bacillus, Clostridium, Corynebacterium, Flavobacterium, Micromonospora, Mycobacterium, Nocardia, Propionibacterium, Protaminobacter, Proteus, Pseudomonas, Rhizobium, Salmonella, Serratia, Streptomyces, Streptococcus and Xanthomonas.
Industrial production of B12 is through fermentation of selected microorganisms.[8] Streptomyces griseus, a bacterium once thought to be a yeast, was the commercial source of vitamin B12 for many years.[9][10] The species Pseudomonas denitrificans and Propionibacterium shermanii are more commonly used today.[11] These are frequently grown under special conditions to enhance yield, and at least one company, Rhône-Poulenc of France, which has merged into Sanofi-Aventis, used genetically engineered versions of one or both of these species.
Jennyharvey
Well-Known Member
So what are you implying?
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
How you can put trimmers and farriers in the same sentence is beyond me.
Farriers train 4/5 yrs trimmer trains how long?
Why no comment on the ponies at markets? do they not register on your radar.
Farriers train 4/5 yrs trimmer trains how long?
Why no comment on the ponies at markets? do they not register on your radar.
Jennyharvey
Well-Known Member
I guess its your opnion that farriers know everything about feet and trimmers dont, thats fine by me.
Obviously ur not a fan of trimmers so i aint gonna get into a debate about that too. This thread has gone on long enough, and off topic enough, and we are never gonna agree on things so maybe we should leave it at that?
Over2You
Well-Known Member
I shall address the issue of these horrendous sales. I have noticed that none of you have mentioned the root cause of why these "little scraps" have come to be that way in the first place. It is because of the sheer and utter arrogance/ignorance of the farmers and other people who own them. There was a thread many months ago regarding the mass culling of Dartmoor ponies. I was quite pleasantly surprised by how many posters agreed with my viewpoint. These idiots should be penalised for over breeding. They were after all the ones responsible for the situation in the first place. To further my point of arrogance, there was a female farmer interviewed on Countryfile who refused to take the stallion out of her herd! In the meantime, the pony population continues to grow, and more ponies end-up at these horrid sales or being shot! To me, those responsible for the over breeding should be made to pay for what they have done. Authorities should also make breeding restrictions and castrations mandatory.The money from the fines could be used to help rescues care for the ponies instead of them being disposed of like clapped out bangers. However, I have to admit if the ponies are beyond help, then PTS is the only option. Going back to Countryfile. I cannot get over it actually showing the knacker man segment. It wasn't necessary at all! It made me feel sick. Between that, the BBC ritualistically showing horses dying in racing, and that abomination that was its Horse People series. I have arrived at the conclusion that the BBC clearly does not care about upsetting horse lovers. But, this is going even more off-topic.
As for the plight of these poor ponies being more cruel than racing. I agree that the former is an atrocity brought on by humans. However, the deaths of hundreds of racehorses every year is entirely preventable too. Breeders of racehorses should be penalised as well. They are responsible for the mass slaughter of foals and should be made to pay for all the lives they take so callously. Making two-year-olds race at break neck speeds, and sending horses as young as four over enormous fences from a gallop is just downright barbaric. As is the casual way in which these wonderful horse people dispose of those not up to the job. Perfectly healthy horses killed for no good reason. As I have said many times before, the 'sport' does nothing, but disgust me.
levantosh
Well-Known Member
Where there is live stock there is dead stock! Racing is a sport just like any other. People get hurt in sport and so do animals. I know a dog that broke a toe doing agility, is this sport cruel? a polo match last year a horse dropped dead, is this sport cruel? A horse cut an artery at badminton (can't remember which year) on the flag post, is this sport cruel?
Where do we stop. A sad story the other day about a person I know who's horse had a horrendous injury in it's field, is the field cruel????
People won't be happy until racing is banned completely, but when the horses bred for racing are pts there will be uproar. Where does it end.
And racing is the second largest income to Britain behind football!
Where do we stop. A sad story the other day about a person I know who's horse had a horrendous injury in it's field, is the field cruel????
People won't be happy until racing is banned completely, but when the horses bred for racing are pts there will be uproar. Where does it end.
And racing is the second largest income to Britain behind football!
Mike007
Well-Known Member
I watched your video with a certain amount of amusement. An awfull lot of half truths . and incidentaly the reason that there might be a shortage of B12 is due to crop production. Livestock production does not deplete the soil of Cobalt to a fraction of the extent that your much vaunted crop production does.
Double_choc_lab
Well-Known Member
intouch
Well-Known Member
And most of those crops are used to feed....livestock!
jroz
Well-Known Member
RIP horses 
Jennyharvey
Well-Known Member
The crops themselves dont deplete the soil, its what is used on it. If we treated the soil right, ie organically, without using pesticides and harmful fertilisers, we wouldnt have the same problem of depletion.
Alec Swan
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Point 1. Whilst you may be well able to pay twice over, or more for your food, there are those who aren't.
Point 2. If we in Britain are to supply our own food, then we have to compete in a global market. Do you really want us to rely upon imported rubbish, from God knows where, where we have no control over food standards?
Point 3. Wake up to reality. I like it, no more than you do, but this sort of shallow argument leads us nowhere. When the rest of the world will go organic, then so will I. We're in a world wide recession. Those in the poorer countries need the market which we provide. Do you really want to deny them the chance to feed themselves, and their children?
Think again.
Alec.
Ets, having whinged that this has gone way off topic, here I am, making matters worse. I apologise, but only for that!! a.
Elf On A Shelf
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Yup and you get the Welsh National, Irish National, Midlands, Summer, Sussex, Northumberland, London and of course the Highland National. Though only the Aintree Grand National is over the big fences, all of the others are over regulation chase fences.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
Crops DO deplete soil. Fact...However feeding crops to livestock and putting the muck back on the fields depletes it an awfull lot slower.