Two questions re. Ben Maher...

[MizElz]

1) Is he gay?

2) What the hell did he have in his horse's mouth yesterday?

Now before anyone thinks this is a lets-slag-off-Ben thread, it isnt - I really admire him as a rider! And as far as the bit issue is concerned, I think he has among the softest hands in show jumping - and as Clare Balding herself said, a rider with anything other than the softest hands should never, ever use a bit like that. I just wonder why these riders feel that such gadgets are necessary; if the horse had gone like a dream, I would perhaps be forced to eat my words, but he clearly didnt. And take a look back at the 'glory days' of show jumping of the 60s and 70s - you dont see contraptions like that back then.....okay, so 'technology has evolved', but the likes of Boomerang, Stroller et al managed to conquer all without having a mouth - and nose - full of complex ironwork.....

The first question is just because I am curious

 

[lastresort]

No he isnt gay he goes out with a friend of mines best friend and has for years

 

[MizElz]

[ QUOTE ]
No he isnt gay he goes out with a friend of mines best friend and has for years

[/ QUOTE ]

Righto, thanks for that!

 

[saskia295]

He's NOT gay?!!!!! OMG that is a shocker to me, I thought he was bent as anything!!

 

[lastresort]

I think its his voice but i promise he def isnt his girlfriend very pretty and thay have been together a long time!!

 

[hellybelly6]

No idea
Yes yes yes. Thats my point exactly about bits and gadgets. That was a horrendous looking long shanked hackamore with a bit too with pelham roundings. Good on Claire for mentioning it too. Looked like an instrument of torture rather than a means of communication with one of the most sensitive and tender parts of a horse.

I agree, we didnt need any of that stuff in the 60/70s. It was a snaffle, cavesson and maybe a martingale. If the horse was considered strong a drop noseband. I appreciate things have moved on since then, but I think horses have remained the same.

I remember when a horse had 3 rugs a New Zealand, a string vest sweat rug and a jute stable rug! It was considered very sophisticated when the blue NZ first came out.

 

[dianchi]

The bit was discussed in another thread, same as rob wittaker users in Finbarr.
And as ever its how its used affects the serverity

 

[MizElz]

So......have horses got 'stronger', or have riders become weaker/less inclined to counteract strength through other means? Or have jumping tracks become more technical, making the ability to stop/turn on a sixpence a necessity for safety when jumping? The thing is, if this is the case, then these contraptions (cannot think of another way to refer to them in a collective sense) still dont work. How many of those horses yesterday were still having their heads tugged and yanked in an effort to stop? Contraption or snaffle, there seems to be no difference - a strong horse remains strong.

Whatever happened to a double bridle?

 

[blackcob]

[ QUOTE ]


I agree, we didnt need any of that stuff in the 60/70s. It was a snaffle, cavesson and maybe a martingale.

[/ QUOTE ]

My mum's Pony Club manual of horsemanship, circa 1980ish, only includes snaffles (jointed, french link, full cheek and twisted wire, in loose ring or eggbutt), pelhams, double bridles, kimblewicks, running gags and Dr Bristols. Anything other than the plainer of the snaffles is described as a harsh bit, and the gag and Dr Bristol come with quite harsh caveats on their use. I can't remember the exact wording but it is made very clear that you shouldn't be using those bits! Whoever wrote that would be turning in their grave at the moment.

I love the idea of little 14.2hh Stroller going around the course in a snaffle and little else, it's a little girl's pony dream come true.

 

[Bossanova]

Sjers ride a very different type of horse nowadays- the warmblood is designed to be powerful and strong. Courses are more technical now too, it's no longer about massive jumps, its about tricky distances and turns. Maybe those two things contribute

 

[blackcob]

[ QUOTE ]


Whatever happened to a double bridle?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure I saw a couple of double bridles used, and from what I saw they were being used quite effectively. But I do agree with you, a double bridle used to be the be all and end all, whereas now it's probably regarded as quite a mild set up as there are so many stronger options.

 

[Ziggy_]

IMHO -

1. top horses have got sharper, faster, more intelligent and probably fitter, and therefore more difficult to ride

2. riders want results earlier so are probably more inclined to skip early schooling in favour of getting out competing

3. i would have put money on that guy being gay!!


i am only 20 so don't quote me on the 1st 2 points, also in my experience when a horse gets strong and excitable its brakes will tend to fail no matter what tack you have

 

[pinktiger]

two quite different questions

first que,,, eeerrrrm dont kno, why do think hes hot???

second que,,,,, is a very large piece of kit, that would scare me to hold it let alone put it in my horses mouth!!! It appears to me to act upon nose, poll, and over the tongue, dont think a double bridle would do all this!!! However scary it mayb to us,,,, he knows what hes doing, and tech has moved on so much since times began (thankfully) hes on his way to the olympics!!! Is a lovely rider with as has been said the kindest hands, learnt i xpect from riding the very quirkiest horses!!!!

 

[carys220]

[ QUOTE ]


I love the idea of little 14.2hh Stroller going around the course in a snaffle and little else, it's a little girl's pony dream come true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Stoller sometimes wore a grackle.

 

[BigRed]

Ben Maher and the Whitaker guy who rides Finbar are both very small men, riding big powerful horses, maybe that is part of the reason they have these contraptions on their horses. Ben Mahers' horse looked very happy in the bit he was in, better than being hauled around wearing a snaffle.

 

[Halfstep]

Boomerang went in a very long shanked German hackamore.....

 

[MizElz]

[ QUOTE ]


Riders want results earlier so are probably more inclined to skip early schooling in favour of getting out competing



[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a VERY important point.

In a way I can speak a little from experience; I am no professional show jumper, but we did a fair bit in the first few years of having Ellie. We got carried away by her talent and ability - we jumped out of British Novice in just two outings (stupidly - we hadnt read the rule book and had no idea how it all worked.) At the time, we just thought, hey, this horse can jump! And having never showjumped properly before, we went into it blind. I will admit that we used some 'gadgets' - draw reins, bungees etc, although she has always been snaffle mouthed - yet now I have given up showjumping, I look back and realise just how much basic schooling we missed out on. As a result, I now have a 13 yr old horse who, although immensely talented in the jumping ring, has developed muscles in places that mean basic dressage is almost impossible. If I had not been in such a rush to keep 'climbing the ladder' as such, and had done things properly from the start, I cannot help but think that we may have got even further, even if it had taken more time.

A little different to the situation of the professionals, I know, but the morals seem the same. Nobody can argue that time and patience reap the best results with horses, can they?

 

[blackcob]

[ QUOTE ]


I think Stoller sometimes wore a grackle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't destroy my dream

I'm sure he was in a cavesson for Hickstead.

 

[Ezme]

I think prize money might have something to do with it too, to make even the smallest amount of money from SJ'ing full time you need a v big string. It probs contributes to time issues + the big warmblood rather than sensitive hotblood type

 

[carys220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I love the idea of little 14.2hh Stroller going around the course in a snaffle and little else, it's a little girl's pony dream come true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Stoller sometimes wore a grackle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup:

 

[MizElz]

[ QUOTE ]
Boomerang went in a very long shanked German hackamore.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I still wouldnt say that ranks as a 'contraption' in the league of the type of thing Ben's horse (and others - I dont want him to be singled out here!) were wearing. Peter Charles's Corrada could only ever go in a hackamore.....I do agree that it is horses for courses, and each horse has individual and unique needs, but some of these bits are getting weirder and more outlandish, and I for one cannot see what purpose they are serving.

Of course, the key to this might be for us all to go and try and ride Alfredo in a snaffle/pelham/double and try to prove Ben's choice of bit wrong....do you think he would oblige us?

*foresees a couple of HHOers taking turns to smoothly coax Alfredo round the Derby course in a little loose ring snaffle*

 

[MizElz]

[ QUOTE ]


Yup:

[/ QUOTE ]

*in true HHO style*

But.....but.....that grackle is fitted faaaaaaaaaaaaaar too low, and it is crooked!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[blackcob]

I don't think it's too low, I think most people nowadays fit it far too high right across the bones of the face. It is crooked though. And decidedly not a cavesson. Hmph.

-sniff- Still, he's an inspiration to those of us with teeny tiny horses.

 

[BigBird146]

Flippin heck... never seen the derby bank ridden like that!! (CarysDB's old pic). Scary!!

Doh, you've just removed the pic!! She was leaning forward over it's neck going down the bank.

 

[madmav]

But everything to do with horses involves more gear and complexity now. Was much simpler - and cheaper - in the days of Stroller! (And his grackle was the height of sophistication then).

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]
No he isnt gay he goes out with a friend of mines best friend and has for years

[/ QUOTE ]

IS HE NOT???

Now i am lost for words...

 

[Starbucks]

Thing is though MizElz - do you actually know how it works and if it is really that terrible?? You say the horse didn't go very well - I'd say 8 faults it pretty good!!! Joint 3rd anyhow!!

I just think it's so boring the whole "well we never needed all that back in the day...."

Things change!!!

Oh yea - I thought he was gay too!

 

[carys220]

Hope this makes you feel better blackcob:

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Yup:

[/ QUOTE ]

*in true HHO style*

But.....but.....that grackle is fitted faaaaaaaaaaaaaar too low, and it is crooked!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

i wouldnt say it was too low..its a bog standard grackle..not a "mexican" and they were fitted below the cheek bones either side of the face..as this is.

 

[TarrSteps]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Riders want results earlier so are probably more inclined to skip early schooling in favour of getting out competing



[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a VERY important point.

In a way I can speak a little from experience; I am no professional show jumper, but we did a fair bit in the first few years of having Ellie. We got carried away by her talent and ability - we jumped out of British Novice in just two outings (stupidly - we hadnt read the rule book and had no idea how it all worked.) At the time, we just thought, hey, this horse can jump! And having never showjumped properly before, we went into it blind. I will admit that we used some 'gadgets' - draw reins, bungees etc, although she has always been snaffle mouthed - yet now I have given up showjumping, I look back and realise just how much basic schooling we missed out on. As a result, I now have a 13 yr old horse who, although immensely talented in the jumping ring, has developed muscles in places that mean basic dressage is almost impossible. If I had not been in such a rush to keep 'climbing the ladder' as such, and had done things properly from the start, I cannot help but think that we may have got even further, even if it had taken more time.

A little different to the situation of the professionals, I know, but the morals seem the same. Nobody can argue that time and patience reap the best results with horses, can they?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's a very brave post, ME. I suspect versions of your story happen a great deal more often than is admitted and every explanation gets put forward except that one.

It's complicated . . . time and patience is so important. But then so is doing the right thing at the right time and taking advantage of the best situations as they come. The most important thing is to keep listening to the horse and thinking about the future, not just the moment.

But that's a tough sell in a world where everything is dependent on the "now" and so many people think they will get endless chances to get it right or, if it does go wrong, the fault must be in the stars, not themselves. (Of course the stars can get it wrong, too, especially if the horse is not cut out for the job.)