Two reins on a dutch gag/bubble bit

One rein or two?

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im not a lover of this bit at all, and I hate seeing them put on kids ponies with a single rein on the bottom ring!
they should be used with 2 reins (and a curb strap).
like any bit people should know how to use them before putting one in!
sorry to moan but seeing people use them with a single rein on the bottom ring is my pet hate!
Merry xmas everyone :-)
 
actually one thing i notice with one rein on the bottom ring, is that when yanked quite hard or held strongly (like the coblet at college) the horses head goes into the air, they sort of bounce on the spot and collect right in and in some cases do mini rears.

don't think i've seen a horse NOT do that with only one rein on the bottom ring...
 
Tazhazzareindeer said:
why do you prefer the kimble then ? :)
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because Tazz, it's a "proper" bit :);).

The bubble imo is a made up bit which isn't actually very intelligent but really popular for some reason. It has problems.... one rein or two?.... back strap or not?.... which ring?.... jointed or unjointed?..... poll or bar pressure?.....

A kimble is simple, unfussy, precise and gives clear positive signals.. one rein... two settings... definitely a curb strap and lip strap... unjointed... poll + bar pressure!

It is a logical, uncomplicated bit that has fallen out of fashion as it is a bit old skool....

I'm not going back on my word about schooling just that, if you needed a bit that helped you out of those OMG moments... this is the one. It's like a mini pelham :D:D:D
 
tallyhohoho said:
because Tazz, it's a "proper" bit :);).

The bubble imo is a made up bit which isn't actually very intelligent but really popular for some reason. It has problems.... one rein or two?.... back strap or not?.... which ring?.... jointed or unjointed?..... poll or bar pressure?.....

A kimble is simple, unfussy, precise and gives clear positive signals.. one rein... two settings... definitely a curb strap and lip strap... unjointed... poll + bar pressure!

It is a logical, uncomplicated bit that has fallen out of fashion as it is a bit old skool....

I'm not going back on my word about schooling just that, if you needed a bit that helped you out of those OMG moments... this is the one. It's like a mini pelham :D:D:D
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ooo i see...

when my girl is jumping regularly her snaffe suffices, but when its early season and we're restarting she does her nut :rolleyes: but hey ho, i will stick with what i know. :)
 
I prefer a kimblewick because horses tend to find them quite comfy, they are relatively simple to use, they don't have a huge amount of leverage but it can be increased with slots on a uttoxeter giving you options with one bit, they act in two ways on the bars and/or tongue and the curb groove, they are designed to be used with one rein so if you aren't confident riding with two you don't compromise the action and they tend to do the job.

Also the dutch gag allows an awful lot of movement from the riders hand which can only instill bad habits.

I would really suggest a read of the sustainable dressage website on dutch gags to understand the way the work and the problems with using them with one rein and no back strap.
 
I have found this thread really interesting--thank you

I regularly steward at RC SJ and notice a lot of youngsters with one rein on these Dutch Gags and they cannot steer and they have unscheduled stops.
I have never used one myself so felt unable to offer advice other than try something else!!

We have used a mixture of bits over the years as have always had forward going ponies/horses

One pony had an American gag with bit guards for XC to which I fitted a back strap so as soon as rider softened hands the pressure came straight off.

He could get his tongue over many bits including a pelham but not the above!
(He was known to run away on occasion!! instructor got on one day and was shocked--she did not realise how strong he was in a snaffle, rider disguised it well)
 
tallyhohoho said:
I think all horses can go well in just a snaffle.
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^^ I agree with this :) I've ridden many horses in strong bits that just don't need them. Same with nosebands IMO.. Grackles to 'look pretty' etc etc.

If I were to ride in a gag I would use two reins and a curb. A good friend used to ride with one rein on the bottom ring, the horse just looked uncomfortable :( No curb either :(
 
Cuffey said:
I regularly steward at RC SJ and notice a lot of youngsters with one rein on these Dutch Gags and they cannot steer and they have unscheduled stops.
I have never used one myself so felt unable to offer advice other than try something else!!
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Loss of steering is a common problem with a dutch gag, there is a certain lack of directness to the rein aid if you think about it so if you are steering with your hands rather than from your seat you will struggle. That is because the movement of the hand rotates the bit ring against the mouthpiece before moving the mouthpiece if you see what i mean.

Having said that a kimblewick can also cause a loss of steering as it is an unjoined mouthpiece so you don't get the same action as with a joint.

If they wanted a jointed bit and couldn't hold the pony in say a fulmer/full cheek snaffle even with an appropriate martingale and noseband I might suggest a snaffle like a cherry roller, waterford, twisted snaffle, dr bristol or some lessons in riding with two reins and a double bridle, pelham or true gag. You can also get a myler that works in a similar way to a kimblewick due to slots and hooks that can be good extra brakes and might be worth a try. It depends a lot upon the pony's particular evasion....
 
Cheiro1 said:
Two reins.

Its a pet hate is seeing the bit used with one rein, unless the rein is on the top ring, especially one rein on the very bottom ring.

It makes the action of the bit SO severe, as having some pull on the main ring at the same time as the bottom stops the bit rotating around like it can do.

Technically it should also be used with a back strap for the same reason.
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Yes me too, I also hate seeing people with one rein on the bottom ring on a pelham, curb action ALL the time poor horses
 
well, i rode horsey today in the two reins and a curb strap. curb is a bit too loose so need to put more holes in it but it still worked to a degree.

can't believe difference in horse...
with one rein on 2nd ring the nose comes on her chest and she's strong you can really 'feel' her pulling on you.
two reins and a curb strap, ridden in for 2nd/3rd time and her stopping and steering is improved and mouth soft as butter. i'm so impressed!
also, when she thought it was funny to take off over a pole and attempt to p off a few half halts brought her back to a stop...in the one rein she'd have grabbed the bit and kept going for a while!
when new bridle arrives i'll pop her back in her snaffle and keep this 'double bridle' for jumping as she really respects and likes it and there was no pulling or evading. :D:D
 
i use two reins. i have a curb rein on the bottom ring which i use for emergancy braking or if pony in a spooky mood will have double reins for canter work but only on fun rides and some rides alone.

much better to use two reins pony used to hate it being on roundings or just on a stronger ring
 
I ride with one but have tried roundings in the past but didn't find it made any difference. Reins are on the main ring and have only ever used the next ring down and never the bottom.
I have tried two reins on a pelham before ( not on this horse) and found it awkward and would not want to do regular hacking with two reins and thinking about what rein goes where etc. Also struggle with reins anyway as the western style are too long and the Stubben extra full I have are just long enough.
Can anyone recommend a good pair of extra full reins that are lengthy and not too expensive.
This horse is an oldie draft cross who can be strong. Tried him in an ordinary snaffle a few years ago and he was very stong in that.
Also tried with a liverpool driving bit, with chain and roundings on rein but didn't think it was any different to the gag to be honest.
I do have soft hands, have always been told that and quiet too.
My cob is like putty in hands and only takes up the bit when he says its time to go home or gets buzzy on a ride. He is in a NS and the best bit is has ever had and it suits him really well.
Big lad is hard to get bits for as I can't afford £40 etc for a bit! He takes 6 1/2 inches and bits in that size are hard to come by at a good price.
He also leans on the bit. He feels heavy in your hands ( no matter how light I ride) compared to the cob. He puts his huge neck into it and knows he can easily pull the reins through your hands. The gag was there so I could change it to a stronger setting if on a fast hack/ride and he was more buzzy than usual. It is not much fun having more than 3/4 of a ton trying to pull your arms out.
I have also tried a grackle noseband on him in the past but didn't notice any difference. Occasionally used a flash and it did stop a little of the pulling.
He is almost 21 and been there and done it and I think knows a fair few tricks.
If anyone can recommend a bit or gadget that might help then please do?
When I had him he came in a running martingale which I removed years ago. He was in a dutch gag which was too small and had rubbed him, so again the bit size was changed and have tried other bits as listed above.
 
goneshowjumping said:
im not a lover of this bit at all, and I hate seeing them put on kids ponies with a single rein on the bottom ring!
they should be used with 2 reins (and a curb strap).
like any bit people should know how to use them before putting one in!
sorry to moan but seeing people use them with a single rein on the bottom ring is my pet hate!
Merry xmas everyone :-)
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The Dutch gag is an extremely complicated bit,it will do all manner of different things in different configurations on different horses ,different riders . I totaly disagree that one rein on the bottom ring ,with no curb strap,is necessarily incorrect. It most certainly has its use. It gives a degree of cushioning between hand and bit which can be of use on a big horse with a light mouth when jumping (of course on the wrong horse ,the steering goes to pot:D). Used with a curb strap the function is entirely different but no less correct in a given circumstance. It becomes a very powerfull and direct acting bit (and not one that I would like to see the average child using). Used like this it will tend to bring the head down, used without the strap it tends to bring the head up. Any problems are not with the bit but a riders lack of understanding of how it functions.
 
Mike007 said:
The Dutch gag is an extremely complicated bit,it will do all manner of different things in different configurations on different horses ,different riders . I totaly disagree that one rein on the bottom ring ,with no curb strap,is necessarily incorrect. It most certainly has its use. It gives a degree of cushioning between hand and bit which can be of use on a big horse with a light mouth when jumping (of course on the wrong horse ,the steering goes to pot:D). Used with a curb strap the function is entirely different but no less correct in a given circumstance. It becomes a very powerfull and direct acting bit (and not one that I would like to see the average child using). Used like this it will tend to bring the head down, used without the strap it tends to bring the head up. Any problems are not with the bit but a riders lack of understanding of how it functions.
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definitely think it depends on the nag in question and what they like to go in. :)
 
Mike007 said:
The Dutch gag is an extremely complicated bit,it will do all manner of different things in different configurations on different horses ,different riders . I totaly disagree that one rein on the bottom ring ,with no curb strap,is necessarily incorrect. It most certainly has its use. It gives a degree of cushioning between hand and bit which can be of use on a big horse with a light mouth when jumping (of course on the wrong horse ,the steering goes to pot:D). Used with a curb strap the function is entirely different but no less correct in a given circumstance. It becomes a very powerfull and direct acting bit (and not one that I would like to see the average child using). Used like this it will tend to bring the head down, used without the strap it tends to bring the head up. Any problems are not with the bit but a riders lack of understanding of how it functions.
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i totally agree it has its uses, and is down to the individual horse, but a lot of people do not understand the actions (and problems) it can cause.
you are so so right though.....it is usually the riders lack of understanding!
 
for hacking one rein, and a curb strap to stop it over rotating suits us :).

Pony is happy in most bits but is a spooky welsh pita if hacking in a snaffle :p. Pony happy, rider happy all is good.
 
I think using it with roundings is just like having one rein on the middle ring. Could be wrong though. My old mare was very strong and I hunted her in two reins and a back strap, actually the back strap made the bit stronger I think, she stopped better with a back strap on than off. Trouble with two reins out hunting is two sets of reins, hunting whip and thong, hip flask, fag and lighter all got a bit of a handful!
 
Clodagh said:
I think using it with roundings is just like having one rein on the middle ring. Could be wrong though. My old mare was very strong and I hunted her in two reins and a back strap, actually the back strap made the bit stronger I think, she stopped better with a back strap on than off. Trouble with two reins out hunting is two sets of reins, hunting whip and thong, hip flask, fag and lighter all got a bit of a handful!
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ah right. i need to make the curb a bit tighter but apart from that she is going very well with the 'new arrangements' to her bridle! :)
 
I selected 'other' as it would depend upon the horse and maybe what I was doing with it. I ride out using two reins with my Market Harborough, as I don't always need its action. I would probably do the same with a bubble gag too if I were to use one.
 
It isn't a bit I ever use, but if I were to use it on an English trained horse I would use two reins AND a curb strap.

I am sure that tackshops must have curb straps, but if they don't, try a Western Saddlery store they most certainly will, as someone said though, a leather rounding will do the job just as well if you can alter it to fit.

Why the stupid things don't come with a strap is beyond me.

These are curb straps:

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Clodagh said:
. Trouble with two reins out hunting is two sets of reins, hunting whip and thong, hip flask, fag and lighter all got a bit of a handful!
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Drop the reins, whip under leg, flask in pocket, back to wind ( and hope field doesn't choose now to move off) light fag ...sorted. ;) (In my dreams)

- in reality, I'd drop a glove/whip/flask/lighter/cigarette, field would take off :D C'est la vie, wouldn't be hunting without those moments eh?
 
Enfys - what's a slobber strap? :confused:

OP - I checked 'other' as it's not a bit I have ever felt the need to use :) Will happily ride with 2 sets of reins with a double but other than that they are all in 'simple' snaffle variations :)
 
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