Two years' riding lessons and still doesn't know ...

I used to teach in a RS, and it's just quicker and safer to tack up all the horses, with bridles, saddles, boots and all, and sometimes even to take them to the school, yourself, two by two.
Clients complain if you expect them to tack up, most turn up only about 5 mins before their lesson, and expect their lesson to start at the hour sharp (so they get the full time riding they are paying for).
If a client was interested, we'd show them how to find the right tack (no mean feat in some yards), how to tack up, fit boots, etc, and how to lead the horse to the school safely....but only if they turned up early enough.
Perhaps more clients should book stable management lessons...or turn up one day when they are not booked for a lesson, and they could shadow the yard staff or instructor.
From the yard's point of view, loose and unsupervised clients are a cause of accidents, a potential risk of litigation, a time-waste, and all of this with no reward to the yard at all.
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On the new rider forum they have a 'mentor' thread where kids who want to learn the basics post and more experienced owners have them down to their yard for a day so they can get some experience. ..Obviously with the mentor system you've got potential safety problems etc, so its far from ideal, but it just shows the lengths pony mad kids will go to to get their pony fix.


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Now my first thought on reading that was 'What a good idea - I'd like to be involved' and my second thought was 'but what about insurance?' I guess I'm falling into the same trap as the riding schools...

I had a quick look at the New Rider forum but couldn't see the thread you mentioned?
 
the riding school that i go to allows you to pick out the horses feet your self at the end of the lesson. Great (and useful) experience.
however we don't tack them up. Will do that when i join the PC in 2 weeks i expect
 
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On the new rider forum they have a 'mentor' thread where kids who want to learn the basics post and more experienced owners have them down to their yard for a day so they can get some experience. ..Obviously with the mentor system you've got potential safety problems etc, so its far from ideal, but it just shows the lengths pony mad kids will go to to get their pony fix.


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Now my first thought on reading that was 'What a good idea - I'd like to be involved' and my second thought was 'but what about insurance?' I guess I'm falling into the same trap as the riding schools...

I had a quick look at the New Rider forum but couldn't see the thread you mentioned?

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That reminds me of a recent request by my OH that he brought his four adult, non-horsey friends to meet my horses. I thought about it, then realised I can't safely supervise all four of them at once, so restricted it to two at a time...
It may be over-cautious...but I can introduce two adults to horses carefully and safely, and engineer it so they have a nice time.
If you were a novicey person, wouldn't you want me/your riding school to take as much care over your welfare?
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If you were a novicey person, wouldn't you want me/your riding school to take as much care over your welfare?
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Absolutely - but I'd also want you to teach me to take care of myself ... otherwise it's like always driving your child to school and never teaching them how to cross a road safely. You're doing them no favours in the long term.

Nothing I did around horses as a child was unsupervised until people were quite sure I could manage by myself. My gripe now is that children are being taught to ride - but not to manage or handle horses at all.
 

As Shils has pointed out, there are two sides to the coin. I just think it is a terrible shame that yards have to be so cautious when horse riding is classed as a risky sport (obviously degrees of risk. Walking on the lunge isn't even in the same world as NH racing) but it is classed as risky at the very bottom of the sport so it's a shame that people have to be so cautious over trodden toes/kicks/bites etc.

I can understand if somebody is seriously injured but I think every person that comes into contact with horses should be prepared to accept it as inevitable that they receive some basic injury at some point in their equestrian life without having to resort to H&S & insurance claims.
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But I am sure most these yards offer a "pony day" type thing as does mine for kids that want to do tacking up etc. It just isn't feasible to have kids around all the time, our yard has to hire extra staff for pony days. If they had to do this every weekend as well it would mean they were always loosing money!
 
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If you were a novicey person, wouldn't you want me/your riding school to take as much care over your welfare?
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Absolutely - but I'd also want you to teach me to take care of myself ... otherwise it's like always driving your child to school and never teaching them how to cross a road safely. You're doing them no favours in the long term.

Nothing I did around horses as a child was unsupervised until people were quite sure I could manage by myself. My gripe now is that children are being taught to ride - but not to manage or handle horses at all.

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I understand your point...but how many stable management lessons has your sister paid for, for your niece? Or does she want to pay for 1/2 hr riding, and 1/2 hour grooming and tacking up?
Riding instructors are busy, busy people, working long hours, and don't have time to give free stable management lessons to clients, much as they'd like to in an ideal world. Often the instructor will be the only member of staff working on a yard, or sometimes with one other groom who is having to do the feeds/hays/skipping out etc. Would they really be able to supervise up to eight children in HSE high risk interactions with horses?
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I can understand if somebody is seriously injured but I think every person that comes into contact with horses should be prepared to accept it as inevitable that they receive some basic injury at some point in their equestrian life without having to resort to H&S & insurance claims.
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Yes, I agree that people should recognise that riding horses, handling horses - anything to do with horses is a high risk activity, and instructors/yard staff cannot control all the actions of every horse. If they think that riding school horses are somehow different from our treasured private horses, they're very much mistaken. They range from quieter, ploddy types, right through to competition animals. (At one RS where I worked, it was always the yard's horses which won all the SJ shows and events...they were seriously talented jumpers.)
But I have had people asking me, when they signed up for lessons, to 'guarantee they'll never fall off'. When I refused, and suggested riding wasn't for them, they implied I had been teaching unsafely...and that they had 'caught me out' with their cunning questions!
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I'm qualified, registered, health and safetied, and never been sued....but these are the sorts of clients we are dealing with.
Another example - a child broke her arm in a lesson (not me teaching, thankfully), other instructor and I did first aid, then told her mother to take her to hospital (we offered to take her). Mother seemed to agree; child wailing. Mother seems to leave - we start taking horses to school, then find mother on yard, has pulled a pony out of stable, has plonked hatless, wailing, damaged child on it, and is shouting 'You have to get straight back on!'
Now, if child had injured herself worse...who would have been sued?
It is easy to say what RS should and shouldn't do - the reality is much more complex.
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PS Shall I stop ranting yet
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?
 
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I can understand if somebody is seriously injured but I think every person that comes into contact with horses should be prepared to accept it as inevitable that they receive some basic injury at some point in their equestrian life without having to resort to H&S & insurance claims.
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Yes, I agree that people should recognise that riding horses, handling horses - anything to do with horses is a high risk activity, and instructors/yard staff cannot control all the actions of every horse. If they think that riding school horses are somehow different from our treasured private horses, they're very much mistaken. They range from quieter, ploddy types, right through to competition animals. (At one RS where I worked, it was always the yard's horses which won all the SJ shows and events...they were seriously talented jumpers.)
But I have had people asking me, when they signed up for lessons, to 'guarantee they'll never fall off'. When I refused, and suggested riding wasn't for them, they implied I had been teaching unsafely...and that they had 'caught me out' with their cunning questions!
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I'm qualified, registered, health and safetied, and never been sued....but these are the sorts of clients we are dealing with.
Another example - a child broke her arm in a lesson (not me teaching, thankfully), other instructor and I did first aid, then told her mother to take her to hospital (we offered to take her). Mother seemed to agree; child wailing. Mother seems to leave - we start taking horses to school, then find mother on yard, has pulled a pony out of stable, has plonked hatless, wailing, damaged child on it, and is shouting 'You have to get straight back on!'
Now, if child had injured herself worse...who would have been sued?
It is easy to say what RS should and shouldn't do - the reality is much more complex.
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PS Shall I stop ranting yet
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?

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The first example sounds a grade A tw&t & the second example stuns me
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I suppose being an outsider so to speak, you judge other people on what you would or wouldn't do in a given situation. The minute I'm around horses I have my wits about me to an extent & as for riding, well I don't ever expect that one day I'll fall & never do it again (the Miniature Shetland is looking appealing again
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As for riding school horses & ponies & their temperaments. Some of the slyest & most cunning ponies I've known have been RS/ex RS animals
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Nah, carry on ranting, you can soothe it all with a 'medicinal' glass of wine afterwards
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I understand your point...but how many stable management lessons has your sister paid for, for your niece? Or does she want to pay for 1/2 hr riding, and 1/2 hour grooming and tacking up?

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Oooh, thanks for giving me a sister - I always wanted one! However, I take your point that my daughter-in-law probably hasn't signed up for stable management lessons for my granddaughter - but that brings this discussion full circle. Back in 'the old days' there were always hordes of perfectly competent 14-17 year-olds who would take charge of pupils who arrived early and supervise them grooming, tacking up etc. The pupil wouldn't pay extra for it - it was considered part of their 'riding experience'. If those competent teenagers have disappeared, leaving RSs understaffed, is that too due to Health and Safety?
 
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I understand your point...but how many stable management lessons has your sister paid for, for your niece? Or does she want to pay for 1/2 hr riding, and 1/2 hour grooming and tacking up?

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Oooh, thanks for giving me a sister - I always wanted one! However, I take your point that my daughter-in-law probably hasn't signed up for stable management lessons for my granddaughter - but that brings this discussion full circle. Back in 'the old days' there were always hordes of perfectly competent 14-17 year-olds who would take charge of pupils who arrived early and supervise them grooming, tacking up etc. The pupil wouldn't pay extra for it - it was considered part of their 'riding experience'. If those competent teenagers have disappeared, leaving RSs understaffed, is that too due to Health and Safety?

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I would be more than happy to supply you with my sibling if you're keen?
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The teenage 'helpers' (who are often a bit of a liability, it has to be said) are problematic for a few reasons - firstly, insurance for under 18yr olds is more tricky, secondly, if they are working for you - then should you be paying National Minimum Wage? Thirdly, you have to do extensive Health and Safety Risk Assessments (have you ever done one of those on paper?) for every single aspect of handling horses - and in every one - what would be the role of the helper - would they be customers, staff, are you in loco parentis for them? If you are teaching in lessons, can you know what 10 teenage riotous 'helpers' are doing? If one was kicked, and subsequently died - would you be negligent for not supervising them - I think you would.
Would you ever drop a child off at your local gym for the day, and expect them to be supervised/babysat by the gym staff, would you be happy if teenagers taught your child to use the diving boards, gym equipment, etc....?
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Riding schools are an excellent way of teaching people to ride, can provide training and expertise to more established riders, provide employment for grooms, and are of value in local economies. In return the lesson fees are really negligible - I think customers should be less critical, and more willing to pay for formal tuition in stable management/grooming/bandaging or whatever they require.
So there
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You're forgetting child protection shils too - that's another issue that has come in during the last couple of years
 
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You're forgetting child protection shils too - that's another issue that has come in during the last couple of years

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Oh, yes, I'd forgotten that.
But your instructor is only checked by the Criminal Records Bureau if they join the BHS Register of Instructors - so if anyone leaves their child in the care of an unqualified 'professional' - take note.
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The competent teenagers remain at my yard but we can't be expected to tack everything up, make feeds, poo pick all the fields, muck out anyone who is in, take horses out/into lessons, do relevant escorts, sweep yard twice a day

AND

look after any kids that want to help out paying no extra for it, it just isn't feasible anymore! we have to have at least 1 person to every 5 kids. I

its enough of a challenge just managing people who work on the yard let alone having kids around as well. Also not enough hours in the day
 
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The teenage 'helpers' (who are often a bit of a liability, it has to be said) are problematic for a few reasons...Thirdly, you have to do extensive Health and Safety Risk Assessments (have you ever done one of those on paper?)

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Yes, frequently! I think what this thread has revealed is that the climate now is totally different - and the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater. By minimising risk we've almost eliminated self-reliance.

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Would you ever drop a child off at your local gym for the day, and expect them to be supervised/babysat by the gym staff, would you be happy if teenagers taught your child to use the diving boards, gym equipment, etc....?
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I don't think that's really an equivalent situation. One difference is that I probably wouldn't one day be expecting my child to have her own fancy piece of gym equipment and know how to unbolt it and reassemble it ...

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I think customers should be less critical, and more willing to pay for formal tuition in stable management/grooming/bandaging or whatever they require.
So there
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Well, I don't think my parents could have afforded to pay for the hours and hours of stable management tuition I was given as a youngster by my riding school in return for hours and hours of unpaid work...

Oh well, must be time for my audition for Grumpy Old Women ...
 
I get the impression that at larger and busier stables the staff don't have the time to help each rider tack up and untack their rides, so to save time they're usually tacked up and ready for them. I never learnt to tack up and untack a horse properly until I was training towards an NVQ. There are course for kids to go on but they do sound expensive! It's a shame that most people don't have a rounded knowledge of horses - it's one thing to ride and it's another to know about stable management and what to feed a horse!
 
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