Tying up a horse for 8 hrs??

dieseldog said:
24/7 365 days a year apart from when they were working
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Not so they couldn't lie down.


Does anyone else hate seeing eventers work their hearts out for their riders, then left tied on or to a lorry stiffening up for hours and hours while the rider rides other horses? I've even been at events where a lower level horse competed on the Saturday and was then stood on the lorry all day Sunday while a higher level horse competed, before it could go home for a roll in the field. I think that should be against the rules, myself :(
 
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Horses in stalls would typicaly be "long racked" so they could lie down at night .Groomed and fed in the morning ,then "short racked " for the day. Stalls were built with a feed manger ,hay rack and water trough at a level that a short racked horse could reach comfortably. I totaly agree with cptrayes regarding the casual way so many horses are looked after at shows and events. We leap to attack the parellis at every opportunity without looking closely at what they are actualy saying yet we are blind to so much casual cruelty at home because "it must be correct because everyone does it"
 
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Not a parelli fan, nor condoning this, but to be tied up all day is not uncommon on american ranches, particularly at trail riding establishments. It wouldn't be considered unusual for a horse to be tied to the rail for 4+ hours, sometimes with a saddle on for that length of time too.

It's a different culture.
 
just read the link... not sure about the trying up bit...

but..

I like how he weans the foals, I do mine in a similar way, foals in a paddock next but one to the mares, much less stressful than sending them away
 
I used to work in a Riding School where at the weekends the ponies were brought in from the field by 8 in the morning and tacked up - they then stood tied to rails alongside the school waiting for their lesson times - they were untacked and turned back out in the field at 6.30 in the evening.

As has been mentioned - different culture.
 
amandaco2 said:
:o tie up for hrs without water?yeah.natural.
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Since you ask, Yes. Horses evolved to graze extensively and only require to drink three ,maybe four times a day. We have become accustomed to the idea of ad lib water but it certainly isnt natural or absolutely necessary.
 
amandaco2 said:
:o tie up for hrs without water?yeah.natural.
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He's not bloomin' saying do that, can't you at least read the link to the bit of the Parelli site that's being discussed?

Gradual and slow separation of a horse with separation anxiety. Yep... so what.
 
Mike007 said:
Since you ask, Yes. Horses evolved to graze extensively and only require to drink three ,maybe four times a day. We have become accustomed to the idea of ad lib water but it certainly isnt natural or absolutely necessary.
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When I was in turkey they did not routinely leave water in the stables it freaked me out in the all that heat.
 
Goldenstar said:
When I was in turkey they did not routinely leave water in the stables it freaked me out in the all that heat.
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Yes ,I would also feel uncomfortable with this ,but I do realise that as with so many things it is just because we arnt used to it rather than it being wrong. There are even advantages to a horse drinking when water is offered,for example if you were to offer my horse a drink before or during a long journey he might or might not drink and I would have no idea if or when he might become thirsty.
 
patterdale said:
If it's pat Parelli then no, they probably won't have water.

He believes that if you deprive them of water it makes them more submissive and makes them rely on you more.

Yes, really!
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It does! Dehyrdration is an old dealers trick to make sharp horses docile! I always check for water/dehydration when buying at sales etc!
 
I have been reading this post with interest. It is suppressing the amount of people that comment without actually reading the op link :p
What I find interesting is the idea of separation and the principal & theory behind what he is saying.
I would never leave my boy tied up for any great length of time unless it was for a specific reason e.g transportation.
Armas has been at horsy boot camp and has just returned home ;-) for a period of time he was home alone grazing alone in his stable alone and still is at night he is alone as I bring him in and the other horse stays out.
During the time he did not have a companion, I fretted that this would not be good for him as he is a heard animal enter stage right he now has Lotus as a companion.
Getting to the point, during the time he did not have a company he was much more dependent on me I called he came :D he is not in a small field but has 15 acres of park land to play in he :) horse heaven !
Since the arrival of Lotus mostly does not come when I call :( (but is never an issue to catch)
Pre lotus he would follow me about :D not so much now:(
I see what Parellie is getting at but am not keen on his methodology. Surly if you wanted to put this in to practise rather than tie the horse up you could simply put them in a stall with food and water for x amount of time. Would this not give the same result or am I not getting what Parellie is trying to do ???
 
Well I don't know what PP is getting at either.
But I do train all my horses to be in the stable alone and to tie up for long but not protracted periods of time .
I have recently got a new groom to help me and she is amazed we can ride out and leave one standing in and they accept it .
I just don't understand parelli enough to really understand the purpose of the water depravion etc, most people just want a horse who will tie up to bath or at a show wait in calmly for the farrier .
 
He's tying the horse up so that it can still see it's friend in the field. I should think he's also tying it up because that's quicker initially:

"Take one horse away for just a moment and return. Then do it again and again until the other horse sees that he’s really not gone. Be prepared for this to take many repetitions."

When you're dealing with horses that have separation anxiety the idea is that you don't start by taking them completely away from their companion, you take them out of the field, you put them back... then you do it again... and again... and build up from there.
Taking the horse right away and putting it in a stall or stable would be a huge step for a horse with separation anxiety and unfair I think. (Possibly it would open the door to some stereotypical behaviour as well). It's certainly not what the behaviour people would recommend. For those who have read the link - does anyone see anything wrong with what is being suggested? I don't.

I'd just like to point out again that Parelli hasn't actually said that the horse would be tied without food and water. Although I'm sure it would in the early stages when only taken out for a few minutes! There's a different principle involved here, this is about taking a horse that has separation anxiety away from it's companion and trying to do it in a way that does not cause it upset. I disagree strongly with the advice he's given about not giving horses constant access to water, but he was talking about a different situation then and had a different purpose. I don't think it's right to muddle the two things up unless we know for certain he intends tying a horse for up to 8 hours without food and water.
 
patterdale said:
If it's pat Parelli then no, they probably won't have water.

He believes that if you deprive them of water it makes them more submissive and makes them rely on you more.

Yes, really!
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not true - I heard him speak on this, and he was not advocating leaving a horse without water, only ensuring that you were the one bringing the horse water (wild mustangs never handled, brought water by people, within a very short period they lost their fear and accepted humans which allowed them to be tagged/chipped or whatever, and tracked later on) . Not a usual situation, but all the handlers only had the horses interest at heart. There was a documentary made of it as well.
 
My dressage instructor advised our young horse be used to being tyed up fro 4 hours - what happens when you go to shows/ events, often left at float for long periods of time. i really do not see the difference between stabling for long periods and tying up for long periods. Not that you need to do it that often, but useful to have a horse that will when required.
 
Jamie-lee said:
I used to work in a Riding School where at the weekends the ponies were brought in from the field by 8 in the morning and tacked up - they then stood tied to rails alongside the school waiting for their lesson times - they were untacked and turned back out in the field at 6.30 in the evening.

As has been mentioned - different culture.
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As Jamie-lee says, its almost standard practice where large groups of working equines are used. Its very common practice in many countries. The crucial factor in my view is that they are in the shade.... not a problem in my neck of the woods at the moment!!!
 
Years ago we had stalls for the horses, it worked ok and none of the horses had a problem with it, over time the stalls went and stables were introduced, times change though and my attitude certainly has, I don't keep them shut in stables any more. Having said that, they all can be shut inside if I want them to be and tied up for long periods, if they have to be.
When I first read the title of the post, I thought 8hrs was a bit excessive, but its not really when you think about it. Like others have said, showing, transporting etc.

Its right though to train and teach them.
 
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